What should my terms for GOD be?

[Monster]

Oh I forgot something: CSN completely dicking DH over. How do you feel about not caring about NPO now, Goose? Should have been a team player. It's especially funny reading the SF Q&A and seeing Liz, Gibs and co had been sucking up to NPO for months and they're still on the other side despite everything you did for them. Haha. Maybe they can send you rebuilding aid after this is over. That shouldn't have been peaced out(I mean, just CSN should have had to stay in) and is in large part one of the reasons for my current AA, but the job is getting done anyway.

Funny story, I tried to sidestep Synergy entirely to avoid GATO/LoSS, but iFOK just couldn't absorb IAA. They could have absorbed just TIO with IAA hitting VE who could handle it, but them's the brakes. Damn you Omni for adhering to the iFOK manueveur. I don't even know why most of NpO's allies were so willing to go along with !@#$ when Legion was being preserved at their expense. Is this sounding familiar?

Edited December 26, 2011 by Roquentin

[dockingscheduled]

[quote name='bcortell' timestamp='1324874824' post='2886460']
I'd like to know who these people are, because anyone that is trying to spew that GOD isn't getting their teeth kicked in, is full of !@#$.
[/quote]


i approve of this message.

[Aeros]

GOD Stats

Infrastructure: 169,363, Tech: 281,370, Nukes: 482, Anarchy: 60, Peace Mode: 36

Valhalla Stats

Infrastructure: 505,643, Tech: 322,098, Nukes: 1,292, Anarchy: 33, Peace Mode: 20


I can see it now. GOD is clearly winning

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1324856891' post='2886348']
Completely wrong, actually. They're fighting until their allies are done with the war as well.[/quote]

I'll grant you that people hold out beyond practical limits in wars for a variety of reasons, some good, some bad, but I'm not seeing the logic in it. Terms Polaris getting that bad?

Surely this isn't about CSN...explain.

[Max Power]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1324902557' post='2886579']
Oh I forgot something: CSN completely dicking DH over. How do you feel about not caring about NPO now, Goose? Should have been a team player. It's especially funny reading the SF Q&A and seeing Liz, Gibs and co had been sucking up to NPO for months and they're still on the other side despite everything you did for them. Haha. Maybe they can send you rebuilding aid after this is over. That shouldn't have been peaced out(I mean, just CSN should have had to stay in) and is in large part one of the reasons for my current AA, but the job is getting done anyway.

Funny story, I tried to sidestep Synergy entirely to avoid GATO/LoSS, but iFOK just couldn't absorb IAA. They could have absorbed just TIO with IAA hitting VE who could handle it, but them's the brakes. Damn you Omni for adhering to the iFOK manueveur. I don't even know why most of NpO's allies were so willing to go along with !@#$ when Legion was being preserved at their expense. Is this sounding familiar?
[/quote]
Can you clarify when the stuff in the first paragraph happened? It reads confusingly as is.

[Monster]

[quote name='Max Power' timestamp='1324927802' post='2886692']
Can you clarify when the stuff in the first paragraph happened? It reads confusingly as is.
[/quote]
Okay, Goose made a blog entry where he says he doesn't care about Nordreich's willingness to declare on NPO and will keep up the reps demands regardless.

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1324902557' post='2886579']
Funny story, I tried to sidestep Synergy entirely to avoid GATO/LoSS, but iFOK just couldn't absorb IAA. They could have absorbed just TIO with IAA hitting VE who could handle it, but them's the brakes. Damn you Omni for adhering to the iFOK manueveur. I don't even know why most of NpO's allies were so willing to go along with !@#$ when Legion was being preserved at their expense. Is this sounding familiar?
[/quote]

Sorry

At that point in time the only other choice we had though was VE (I wasn't going to hit an ally of an ally in PC). I don't even think the iFOK move was planned either. Polar just gathered us all in a room and said hit whoever you want. IAA and a bunch of other smaller AAs ended up choosing iFOK. FOK was only countered by CCC, because of they both alliances were late coming in the war. There were actually people in the room asking why the hell Legion wasn't coming. The only answer we got is they were waiting for something. That if they had to wait a little while longer they'd send them in on FOK.

Overall, it was a pretty poorly planned war.

[Monster]

I recommend all NpO allies peace out and cancel.

[Rush Sykes]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1324933810' post='2886740']
I recommend all NpO allies peace out and cancel.
[/quote]


If ever this man and I had a common political ground, this is it. I am amazed to see all these alliances still fighting for NpO, while NpO doesnt even fight for NpO.

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1324933810' post='2886740']
I recommend all NpO allies peace out and cancel.
[/quote]
[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1324934433' post='2886744']
If ever this man and I had a common political ground, this is it. I am amazed to see all these alliances still fighting for NpO, while NpO doesnt even fight for NpO.
[/quote]

Most of the NpO allies from last war, that were worth anything, were canceled on or disbanded and went to cooler alliances. NpO isolated themselves almost as bad as CSN did.

[Monster]

The same goes for the other two Orders because they were in on it.

[Rush Sykes]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1324935121' post='2886755']
The same goes for the other two Orders because they were in on it.
[/quote]


Other 2? There are like 10 of them.

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='Stonewall Jaxon' timestamp='1324875357' post='2886464']
The guy you quoted said that GOD has no value in this war anymore because they're all either in peace mode or missing infrastructure. You said he was wrong. I said he was right, and you're completely ignoring the issue that, despite VE's attempts to approve only so much destruction for their ally, GOD is doing just as badly, if not worse, as any other loser of any other alliance war. It's a reality you refuse to accept, and attacking me won't bring your credibility back. You're a completely worthless ally to have; the secret on that has been out for a long time.
[/quote]

Except, the part that I was arguing was the fact that he said the only reason GOD was still in the war was for Xiph's "ego", which is wrong.

Nice attempt at changing the argument and making it about VE however, glad to have another fan in CoJ.


[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1324922917' post='2886657']
I'll grant you that people hold out beyond practical limits in wars for a variety of reasons, some good, some bad, but I'm not seeing the logic in it. Terms Polaris getting that bad?

Surely this isn't about CSN...explain.
[/quote]

GOD won't be leaving the war until its allies do. Whether you agree or disagree with its effectiveness is a different matter of course.

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1324933810' post='2886740']
I recommend all NpO allies peace out and cancel.
[/quote]

Wise words, I hope people adhere it.

[chefjoe]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1324933810' post='2886740']
I recommend all NpO allies peace out and cancel.
[/quote]

That would require thought beyond blind loyalty and macho stubborn-ism(?)....not traits the folk you are trying to get thru to seem to possess much of


one can hope though....

Edited December 27, 2011 by chefjoe

[Monster]

Ragnarok got played like a cheap fiddle by NSO. Has the NPO changed at all? Not a damn bit and a lot of you were unwitting pawns in their game of chess. Can we compare their responses to the Legion-NpO treaty to their atittude now? Or STA-TPF? haha. NSO's about face on Polar seems odd too since they were so concerned about them in PB-NpO. Maybe they're pissed off over Polar taking the out. Did anyone even remember Farrin Xies was agitating against PB?

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=99249&st=0&p=2646893&hl=animelover91&fromsearch=1&#entry2646893

Maybe we can give this little doozy a spin again?

Regardless, the fix was in.

Thanks Dajobo for justifying DH-NPO. Much appreciated. Though the lack of critical thinking applied to Legion's absence to begin with was pretty appalling.

Edited December 27, 2011 by Roquentin

[Krack]

This whole thread has made a turn for the stupid over the last couple pages. This war is not going on because of Polar. Nobody outside of TOP cares about Polar. And this war is not going on because of GOD. Nobody outside of a handful of butthurt Mjolnir alliances care about GOD, Xiphosis or CSN. Polar and GOD are/were the excuse to get at XX, who was perceived by MK as an actual threat. They wouldn't have a snowballs chance in hell of getting the meatshields to go after XX (arguably the least threatening and antagonistic large non-neutral alliances in the history of CN), so they had to pretend like they actually cared about what meatshields wanted so they could get them involved. It worked.*

To suggest that alliances are being harmed because Polar is behaving in a certain fashion (or GOD is behaving in a certain fashion) is about as disingenuous as it gets. Nothing Polar did or didn't do (or could or will or will not do) had any effect on the actual purpose of the war - to weaken XX.

Roquentin knows this; why he is pretending otherwise, I have no idea.

[size="1"]*To the surprise of exactly nobody, but I digress ...[/size]

EDIT: To be honest, it took a turn for the stupid in the original post in the thread, but still, it's gotten even more ridiculous over the past page.

Edited December 27, 2011 by Krack

[Monster]

I don't think you are getting what I am saying. I am saying NpO threw its other allies under the bus to preserve Legion as the declaration on NPO cites.

[Krack]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1324955646' post='2886943']
I don't think you are getting what I am saying. I am saying NpO threw its other allies under the bus to preserve Legion as the declaration on NPO cites.
[/quote]

You are conversing as though this is a world where concepts like CBs, declarations, treaty obligations, etc are anything but de minimus.

tl;dr:
Who cares? Whatever is going to happen is going to happen regardless of whatever "tactical" maneuvers occur or what is stated in any declaration.

[Monster]

I'm just not going to bother with you.

[Krack]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1324956756' post='2886952']
I'm just not going to bother with you.
[/quote]

As much as almost anyone, you're primarily to blame of for the state of affairs on Planet Bob as it currently stands. For you to project blame (for anything) at anyone other than yourself is a joke. I know you live in an isolated bubble, granted by your status as arguably the last respected individual from the Citadel, but I know you knew this was coming, I know that you encouraged it and I know that you are now trying to pretend like you had nothing to do with the current circumstances. You are deflecting. Everything you have typed in this thread is deflection to make it look like SFs and Polar created the circumstances that resulted in this war. It's not accurate. YOU created the circumstances that resulted in this war, and it's playing out exactly as you intended it to play out and as everyone who was paying even a modicum of attention knew it was going to play out since the beginning of 2011. You are deflecting the blame onto others and it's not impressive. Just own up to it.

You are acting like actions of past alliances (in particular Polar and GOD) have resulted in negative consequences of other alliances in this current war. It simply isn't true and you know it. This current war is going on because certain people wanted XX knocked down a peg; everything else was tactics utilized to get the meatshields involved on the MK side because you needed them. You leaned on grudges to make it work and it worked. But the grudges aren't why the wars are going on right now. The wars are going on because [i]you[/i] wanted them to go on and you used the grudges for leverage.

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Krack' timestamp='1324957817' post='2886960']
As much as almost anyone, you're primarily to blame of for the state of affairs on Planet Bob as it currently stands. For you to project blame (for anything) at anyone other than yourself is a joke. I know you live in an isolated bubble, granted by your status as arguably the last respected individual from the Citadel, but I know you knew this was coming, I know that you encouraged it and I know that you are now trying to pretend like you had nothing to do with the current circumstances. You are deflecting. Everything you have typed in this thread is deflection to make it look like SFs and Polar created the circumstances that resulted in this war. It's not accurate. YOU created the circumstances that resulted in this war, and it's playing out exactly as you intended it to play out and as everyone who was paying even a modicum of attention knew it was going to play out since the beginning of 2011. You are deflecting the blame onto others and it's not impressive. Just own up to it.[/quote]

Has Roq actually said anywhere he don't like how this war is going? He just called out SF while fighting for "their side". Do you even know what you're talking about?

[quote]
You are acting like actions of past alliances (in particular Polar and GOD) have resulted in negative consequences of other alliances in this current war. It simply isn't true and you know it. This current war is going on because certain people wanted XX knocked down a peg; everything else was tactics utilized to get the meatshields involved on the MK side because you needed them. You leaned on grudges to make it work and it worked. But the grudges aren't why the wars are going on right now. The wars are going on because [i]you[/i] wanted them to go on and you used the grudges for leverage.
[/quote]

Nevermind question answered. Talks what you know is the truth, Krack.

[ooc]Btw I sent you a merry Christmas message and you didn't respond.[/ooc]

Edited December 27, 2011 by Omniscient1

[Monster]

Yeah, I'm mostly saying that NpO's allies need to take a good look in the mirror because they were more or less meatshields and totally left in the dark to "protect the core", an idea pushed by all three Orders to go on the last chain after tying in as many alliances possible, which is what the DH DoW says. Given Dajobo more or less admits to the accusation about Legion, it doesn't look too good, because they let their other allies get wrecked while letting Legion be on standby. I say more about it in the other thread. "The story thus far"

If it's any consolation, Krack, I don't really think I'm that respected anymore.

[quote]
The New Polar Order and her myriad allies have gone to great lengths to protect a single alliance from damage in this latest global calamity. Rather than putting forth a maximal effort in what was perceived to be a losing effort from the onset, these alliances have conspired to take the beating so that their flagship alliance can remain strong and resolute. Of particular note is the valorious Legion, whose mutual defense pact with the New Polar Order remains untapped. Perhaps it is a hope for a return to past 'glory.' Subservience suited them well throughout much of their existence, so this is not a particularly surprising strategy. I was asked in particular to pay great heed to the efforts of the Siberian Tiger Alliance in this regard, masterfully positioning alliances in a way to protect the core.[/quote]

In essence, I am saying all three have been lying through their teeth.

Edited December 27, 2011 by Roquentin

[Krack]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1324960359' post='2886977']
If it's any consolation, Krack, I don't really think I'm that respected anymore.
[/quote]

What? The lolteens jumped to a new fad? I'm shocked.

[Crymson]

[quote name='Krack' timestamp='1324955224' post='2886940']
Nobody outside of TOP cares about Polar.
[/quote]

Ask TORN, IRON, TSO and many others if this is true. Hint: it isn't.

Edited December 27, 2011 by Crymson

[Blacky]

I think a fair punishment and terms for a just settlement of the conflict for GOD should be as follows:

1) An admission of guilt (for previous actions including war crimes {PZI, etc} and attempting to disband alliances)
2) An admission of a full military defeat
3) An apology to the affected alliances of aforementioned policies
4) Xiphosis stepping down during the surrender period (including mandatory protection of GOD while their affairs are in order)
5) Reps equal to no less than 1/100th of the monetary damage caused.

edit: I'm largely an uninvolved party in this conflict. Just my opinion.

Edited December 27, 2011 by Blacky