So here I sit

[Banksy]

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1317883476' post='2818180']
As mentioned 1,000 times before making a target list does not mean they are going to war. I bet that there are plenty of target lists of Polar being made up or are already made up. If polar doesn't enter, no war.

Also, for comparison sake:

Tetris side:
(38)+(19)+(128)+(35)+(51) = 271nations
729 160 + 2 679 807 + 683 950 + 1 738 970 + 846 820 = 6 678 707 NS
=> Avg. NS = 24 644.6753

Legion:
241 Nations
6,007,630
=> 24,928 aNS
[/quote]
Everyone knew Europa was coming in. Saying they weren't just shows you don't know what you're talking about.

Also your stats refute the OP.

Edited October 6, 2011 by Banksy

[Unknown Smurf]

[quote name='Systemfailure' timestamp='1317883987' post='2818192']
Legion declared war, they knew what they were getting into since im sure someone in their AA can read a Treaty web.

Dont blame tetris for using their treaties i thought thats what they are for?
[/quote]

The problem isn't tetris. It's NsO. IAA coming in on a protectorate agreement with no chaining clause.. and to a lesser degree BTA activating an oA to help an alliance defend a friend, but then again I can live with that. If it was a MADP I would have no problem so, considering they chose to use the oA as an A, its the same thing.

[Rush Sykes]

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1317884064' post='2818194']
A RoK nation 'jumped the gun' and declared on a Legion guy and RoK made target lists already... I'm just going by facts here. This is me OOC, still saying Legion is in the right.



So did RoK, though not publicly. I'm sure there are plenty of alliances that said they were going to go in and then cancelled it.. I know Legion is one of them, and from what I've heard so is NSO, it doesn't mean anything. I'm not going to argue it as we're OOC.
[/quote]

You know what the difference is? You dont see me sitting here telling you what RoKs intentions were, or werent, and ignoring the facts in front of me.

[Unknown Smurf]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1317884089' post='2818197']
Everyone knew Europa was coming in. Saying they weren't just shows you don't know what you're talking about.
[/quote]

Considering they didn't, I'm right, and [i]everyone[/i] is wrong But, yes, I see your point.

EDIT:
[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1317884250' post='2818201']
You know what the difference is? You dont see me sitting here telling you what RoKs intentions were, or werent, and ignoring the facts in front of me.
[/quote]

Uhh can you clarify what you mean? From the way I read this you are backing me up (and I know that isn't true.. I'm really tired so blame that). But the way I am reading this is you're being sarcastic, because you are telling me what Europas intentions were and ignoring the fact that europa didn't declare.

Edited October 6, 2011 by Unknown Smurf

[Rush Sykes]

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1317884201' post='2818199']
The problem isn't tetris. It's NsO. IAA coming in on a protectorate agreement with no chaining clause.. and to a lesser degree BTA activating an oA to help an alliance defend a friend, but then again I can live with that. If it was a MADP I would have no problem so, considering they chose to use the oA as an A, its the same thing.
[/quote]

Maybe.. JUST MAYBE...


Thats why oA is written in? Presumable, and I know this will come as a shock to you, so brace yourself: when the forefathers in CN began the craze of oA clauses, you know what? They PROBABLY intended that they could, you know, be used. Just sayin.

[Unknown Smurf]

[quote name='Dilber' timestamp='1317883664' post='2818187']
Sure you didn't. I'm sure Europa regularly makes up target lists when they aren't directly allied :<

Also, Smurf: do the tech and nuke counts too
[/quote]

Better if you quote me next time, that notification help

Anyways nukes:
Legion: 2,011

Tetris: 157+844+522+182+113 = 1818

[Unknown Smurf]

[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1317884409' post='2818204']
Maybe.. JUST MAYBE...


Thats why oA is written in? Presumable, and I know this will come as a shock to you, so brace yourself: when the forefathers in CN began the craze of oA clauses, you know what? They PROBABLY intended that they could, you know, be used. Just sayin.
[/quote]

..Is that not what I said? My problem is with IAA coming in on a protectorate agreement, not BTA.

EDIT: I mention BTA because other people seem to have a problem with their declaration.

Edited October 6, 2011 by Unknown Smurf

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1317884290' post='2818203']
Considering they didn't, I'm right, and [i]everyone[/i] is wrong But, yes, I see your point.

EDIT:


Uhh can you clarify what you mean? From the way I read this you are backing me up (and I know that isn't true.. I'm really tired so blame that). But the way I am reading this is you're being sarcastic, because you are telling me what Europas intentions were and ignoring the fact that europa didn't declare.
[/quote]
You weren't arguing that they didn't come in. You were arguing that Legion didn't want to call anyone in. Your allies in Invicta and their allies in Europa have publicly disproved that. Thanks for playing.

[Systemfailure]

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1317884635' post='2818207']
..Is that not what I said? My problem is with IAA coming in on a protectorate agreement, not BTA.

EDIT: I mention BTA because other people seem to have a problem with their declaration.
[/quote]
wait so IAA protecting a protectorate is your problem?

While you may not agree with them joining in on an aggressive war, they are technically on the defending side of this war since Legion issued the first DoW against tetris, and as such NsO and IAA both have valid reasons to join this conflict

[Kzoppistan]

[quote name='Systemfailure' timestamp='1317883987' post='2818192']
Legion declared war, they knew what they were getting into since im sure someone in their AA can read a Treaty web.
[/quote]

Yep.

I doubt you'll hear any complaining from us. With extra alliances on us since update it tips the advantage to our enemies favor a bit. But that makes it all that much more fun.

I don't think anyone who's been following politics in the Legion really expected it to stay contained for long.

[Brehon]

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1317884064' post='2818194']
...

So did RoK, though not publicly. I'm sure there are plenty of alliances that said they were going to go in and then cancelled it.. I know Legion is one of them, and from what I've heard so is NSO, it doesn't mean anything. I'm not going to argue it as we're OOC.
[/quote]

I can't let this one go. This isn't me commenting on anything else... just this.

You were told Invicta and Europa announced PUBLICLY they were going to go in and then cancelled.

Your response is... So did RoK, though not PUBLICLY. How the hell is that an argument?

Listen I totally understand supporting your alliance... but you are at the point you have to stop. When you start just throwing !@#$ on the wall without even thinking... yeah you are over the deep end.

Legion valid CB
Tetris MD's come in
Protectorate protects
War is damn near equal in numbers

Have fun all.

Edited October 6, 2011 by Brehon

[Rush Sykes]

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1317884635' post='2818207']
..Is that not what I said? My problem is with IAA coming in on a protectorate agreement, not BTA.

EDIT: I mention BTA because other people seem to have a problem with their declaration.
[/quote]


We will have to agree to disagree. Because how I see it, an oA comes at a political price. Often times it depends on the enemy, the sides, and the need for help, but there is always a cost associated with it. But a protector fighting with its protectorate, seems solid as hell to me. Its really their duty. You can argue in a different venue the intelligence of IAA letting a protectorate sign a mandatory defense clause. But, they did. But, as a protector, they are right where they should be.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1317882922' post='2818172']
Theres a few problems I see there..

1) Activity. Every alliances has 'x' amount of active members. Yes, bigger alliances have more active members (hopefully), but generally speaking you get a higher percentage of active members in smaller alliances because theres less inactives ones.

2) External aid. You can have a lot of money flowing in from outside alliances because your friends are bigger.

And yes, since I'm OOC, Legion is not as competent as the average alliance. I think huge strides are made even as we speak though. This war has ramped up activity and nations are taking the advice they are given.
[/quote]

Good to see someone remembers this is an ooc forum.

1 is very true, and you may even be understating it, because you need to consider not only inactives, but also surrender-monkeys and once-a-week players are in much higher percentage as well.

2 is really only effective at propping up someone who has already taken a beating, from all the WC-thumping on the attacking side it's kind of embarrasing they need it this early.

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='Sigrun Vapneir' timestamp='1317885201' post='2818220']
Good to see someone remembers this is an ooc forum.

1 is very true, and you may even be understating it, because you need to consider not only inactives, but also surrender-monkeys and once-a-week players are in much higher percentage as well.

2 is really only effective at propping up someone who has already taken a beating, from all the WC-thumping on the attacking side it's kind of embarrasing they need it this early.
[/quote]
AFAIK IAA is the only one getting external aid at the moment.

[Pollard]

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1317884201' post='2818199']
The problem isn't tetris.
[/quote]

Hallelujah!

[Unknown Smurf]

[quote name='Brehon' timestamp='1317885098' post='2818218']
I can't let this one go. This isn't me commenting on anything else... just this.

You were told Invicta and Europa announced PUBLICLY they were going to go in and then cancelled.

Your response is... So did RoK, though not PUBLICLY. How the hell is that an argument?
[/quote]

I was working with the impression that Europa did not publicly announce they were going to war. They clarified their position once the leaks happened. I'm sure if RoK was gonna declare on Fark (random choice) tomorrow, but then canceled they would say nothing. But if it leaked that they were going to attack tomorrow, even if they canceled it, they would have to publicly say something.

I don't see anything wrong with what I said.. unless Invicta and Europa said they were going to attack publicly before the leak happened...

[Sigrun Vapneir]

[quote name='Systemfailure' timestamp='1317884923' post='2818211']
While you may not agree with them joining in on an aggressive war, they are technically on the defending side of this war since Legion issued the first DoW against tetris, and as such NsO and IAA both have valid reasons to join this conflict
[/quote]

Not if Tetris initiated by spaiïng, that would mean that they launched the first attack.

[quote name='Brehon' timestamp='1317885098' post='2818218']
[/quote]

Exactly.

[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1317885165' post='2818219']
We will have to agree to disagree. Because how I see it, an oA comes at a political price. Often times it depends on the enemy, the sides, and the need for help, but there is always a cost associated with it. But a protector fighting with its protectorate, seems solid as hell to me. Its really their duty. You can argue in a different venue the intelligence of IAA letting a protectorate sign a mandatory defense clause. But, they did. But, as a protector, they are right where they should be.
[/quote]

Your post is well written, grammatical, uses punctuation, and yet I dont agree with any of it, in the slightest. Quite remarkable.

[Pollard]

[quote name='Sigrun Vapneir' timestamp='1317886089' post='2818230']
Not if Tetris initiated by spaiïng, that would mean that they launched the first attack.
[/quote]

Prove that we spied.

[Cager]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1317882704' post='2818167']
No, it's based in the premise that after mock Legion so much, after create countless threads talking about the incompetence of Legion as alliance and how they don't know to fight, your side had to eat your own words and look like desperate fools for sending 5 alliance to war Legion and more 2 two aid one of the combatants. Congratulations!
[/quote]


I think you personally need more scars and less commitment. Bring Polar to the table. You're as incompetent as Legion.

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1317885670' post='2818226']
I was working with the impression that Europa did not publicly announce they were going to war. They clarified their position once the leaks happened. I'm sure if RoK was gonna declare on Fark (random choice) tomorrow, but then canceled they would say nothing. But if it leaked that they were going to attack tomorrow, even if they canceled it, they would have to publicly say something.

I don't see anything wrong with what I said.. unless Invicta and Europa said they were going to attack publicly before the leak happened...
[/quote]
The fact that your allies decided to not come in in the end does not negate the fact that you called them in in the first place, which seems pretty central to your original argument that 'haw we're loving this war why would we want to bring in allies'.

[Cager]

Legion just wants to play the victim card. I think it's pretty hilarious they had Europa and co on standby with target lists and now we've got Polar and friends coming here trying to mock Legion's attackers for "not being able to handle Legion". Guess Legion is really as bad as they say heh.

[Vanilla Napalm]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1317882704' post='2818167']
No, it's based in the premise that after mock Legion so much, after create countless threads talking about the incompetence of Legion as alliance and how they don't know to fight, your side had to eat your own words and look like desperate fools for sending 5 alliance to war Legion and more 2 two aid one of the combatants. Congratulations!
[/quote]
So, an alliances competency is judge based upon the alliances attacking them? GOONS took 12 in the last war, so would you therefore consider us ultra-competent? How many declarations did TOP accumulate during the bipolar war again?
It appears GOONS and TOP are godly gents.

[Unknown Smurf]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1317886977' post='2818242']
The fact that your allies decided to not come in in the end does not negate the fact that you called them in in the first place, which seems pretty central to your original argument that 'haw we're loving this war why would we want to bring in allies'.
[/quote]


[quote name='Cager' timestamp='1317887099' post='2818243']
Legion just wants to play the victim card. I think it's pretty hilarious they had Europa and co on standby with target lists and now we've got Polar and friends coming here trying to mock Legion's attackers for "not being able to handle Legion". Guess Legion is really as bad as they say heh.
[/quote]

Maybe our allies took it upon themselves to get ready to defend us, but then we realized its not really a big deal and we told them to back off.

Edited October 6, 2011 by Unknown Smurf

[The Big Bad]

[quote name='Arcades057' timestamp='1317880494' post='2818115']
If Legion is such a terrible alliance, as I have heard so many of you say on these forums, why does it take so many of you to take them down? Couldn't the NSO, Tetris and that Japanese-themed (not that one, the other one. No, the OTHER other one) handle their business without the other two or three alliances that just declared? Or is this just a case of "we don't like x, so we trash talk them!"

Now that the chips are down you lost your guts, have you? Good God I step away for a while... and you just don't change.
[/quote]

I agree its pathetic they need to this much back up for Legion. I guess Legion must have been to much to handle.

[Systemfailure]

[quote name='The Big Bad' timestamp='1317890014' post='2818258']
I agree its pathetic they need to this much back up for Legion. I guess Legion must have been to much to handle.
[/quote]
have you considered that maybe they just want to share the fun? after all its either this or theres gonna be no Christmas war