Wu Tang Clan Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 [quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1302582618' post='2689197'] Thanks Wu [/quote] You're in GOD now? You really need to stop alliance hopping. Though admittedly, the latest one was a vertical move, just not in the direction you'd hope... Oh well. Good pairing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Janova Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 [quote]You're in GOD now?[/quote] What? That's possibly even more surprising than signing a treaty with SOS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFish Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 [quote name='chefjoe' timestamp='1302726758' post='2690161'] Nope its just Hal, he just likes to point out hypocricy when and where he sees it... [/quote] I'm pretty sure we've never told anybody not to sign ODP's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiphosis Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 (edited) [quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1302713229' post='2690088'] Conviction and morality are never [i]excuses[/i], they are [i]justifications[/i], which are of a higher order. "I will not eat a hamburger because eating meat is morally wrong" vs. "I will not eat a hamburger because I'm in the mood for fish".[/quote] Just gonna cut the quote off here, because I'm starting to see where the disconnect is with you and me; I'm being much more cynical about this, especially with regards to alliance politics. I've yet to see many actions out of 'conviction' that I couldn't make a real argument were done for other, shallower reasons. In other words, I don't think it really exists as far as alliance-wide actions go. Not in the last half-decade anyway. [quote]You are implying that ODPs are mere PIATs and that is simply not the case at all. PIATs carry no legal justification for intervention.[/quote] I'm just saying that it's a bogus justification, and that I'd be just as happy to intervene on a PIAT as an ODP, and that in effect and practice they amount to the same thing. You could trade out all the PIAT's still left in CN tomorrow with ODPs and it wouldn't effect any change - not now, not in the next war. People are going to hit who they're going to hit. [quote]It is the difference between having a legal obligation to do something versus having a legal justification for doing something. [/quote] Another point of major disconnect here; just because an ODP gives you a legal [b]option[/b] to do something, that fact alone doesn't justify an alliances actions. However, with an MDP, the legal [b]obligation[/b] [i]can[/i] inherently justify their actions [ie, being pulled into a war against you]. [quote]Having an option to do something isn't the same as it being a mere excuse to do something.[/quote] If you exercise the option, it has become a mere excuse to do something. The option itself. You may try to add, or coat it with some other justification, but the act of using the option is an excuse. This is probably the only area I agree with Ivan on; if you're going to DoW, just DoW. The minute you involve ODPs and [b]non-obligatory[/b] treaties, then you're making excuses. Bottom line. Edit: Heh, I just realized what a lightweight CJ is intellectually. I don't think I've ever seen him in any length defend any position or opinion he has, just the little snipes like above. Keep on keeping on, slowbro. Edited April 13, 2011 by Xiphosis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Janova Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 I totally agree with you about optional treaties or clauses, which is why I'm surprised that you've signed one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefjoe Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 [quote name='Xiphosis' timestamp='1302733631' post='2690213'] Edit: Heh, I just realized what a lightweight CJ is intellectually. I don't think I've ever seen him in any length defend any position or opinion he has, just the little snipes like above. Keep on keeping on, slowbro. [/quote] Actually your reply shows your shallowness, as your argument of only heavily worded wall of texts with bullet point presentation(of which you seem to be fond of in the above replies to hal) is very ltd it its scope and completely disregards simple and to the point statements. As for 'defending' my opinions more in depth, ive done so where its needed or warrented, your thread and your comprehension is neither. But hey keep on keeping on, slobro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurion Posted April 13, 2011 Report Share Posted April 13, 2011 (edited) [quote name='chefjoe' timestamp='1302735601' post='2690224'] Actually your reply shows your shallowness, as your argument of only heavily worded wall of texts with bullet point presentation(of which you seem to be fond of in the above replies to hal) is very ltd it its scope and completely disregards simple and to the point statements.[/quote] You honestly think that's a heavily worded wall of text? Edited April 13, 2011 by Aurion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnCapistan Posted April 14, 2011 Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 I've never had any respect for GOD and I've never had any respect for SOS Brigade. Have fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealthkill Posted April 14, 2011 Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 brb kicking Xiph out of SF for this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Velox Posted April 14, 2011 Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 [quote name='Aurion' timestamp='1302737357' post='2690237'] You honestly think that's a heavily worded wall of text? [/quote] See: Schattenmann. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EgoFreaky Posted April 14, 2011 Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 All the hate, who are you disbanding this time Xiph? Let's take a look at the OP. oh.. wow.. just wow.. 8 pages for this? Xiph, you make people spend to much time hating you and to little time working on their alliance, Yes that's right you heard it here first: Xiph is to blame for there being so many crappy alliances in CN. Anyway, congrats SoS, whatever people like to say you just gained one hell of an ally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted April 16, 2011 Report Share Posted April 16, 2011 I can understand why some are pointing out the hypocrisy of GOD signing an ODP, yet were pushing for CSN to give high reps to Dark Templar due to them entering on an ODP. It does make me wonder whether GOD would ever activate an ODP when they argued that Dark Templar should be forced into paying high reps for activating one, even though they had the option not to. Although I guess what would probably happen is RIA would defend SOS Brigade due to their MDP and then GOD would do what they want using both their treaty with RIA and SOS Brigade as justification to assist SOS Brigade if they decide to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiderJerusalem Posted April 16, 2011 Report Share Posted April 16, 2011 I guess you deserve each other... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirreille Posted April 16, 2011 Report Share Posted April 16, 2011 [quote name='CheeKy' timestamp='1302704341' post='2690042'] [img]http://www.danielyerelian.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Harry_potter_anime_2.jpg[/img] I guess this will be their flag. [/quote] Quting this just for the value. On the topic at hand, I don't think I have the same view of Optional treaties that Xiphosis does, but that is fine, variety is the spice of life. At least his position is clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiphosis Posted April 16, 2011 Report Share Posted April 16, 2011 [quote name='Mirreille' timestamp='1302980523' post='2691594'] On the topic at hand, I don't think I have the same view of Optional treaties that Xiphosis does, but that is fine, variety is the spice of life. At least his position is clear. [/quote] That's a very reasonable stance on things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFish Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 [quote name='Mirreille' timestamp='1302980523' post='2691594'] Quting this just for the value. On the topic at hand, I don't think I have the same view of Optional treaties that Xiphosis does, but that is fine, variety is the spice of life. At least his position is clear. [/quote] Wait, you disagree with us without railing on us for three paragraphs about what immoral hypocrites we are? What is this nonsense?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefjoe Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 [quote name='NoFish' timestamp='1303011394' post='2691798'] Wait, you disagree with us without railing on us for three paragraphs about what immoral hypocrites we are? What is this nonsense?! [/quote] Always a few that are nice and diplomatic to people even when staring into the face of fail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Williambonney Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 [quote name='chefjoe' timestamp='1303059806' post='2691993'] Always a few that are nice and diplomatic to people even when staring into the face of fail [/quote] Let me know when you find some of these guys, I'd love to meet with them for a chat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookavich Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 Is this some sort of joke? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikz Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 So it has come to this? Signing an ODP..... I hope you activate this some time in the future, makes you eligible for monstrous reps (by your own [i]logos[/i] or [i]λόγος[/i]) if by chance you would find yourselves on the loosing side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFish Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 [quote name='erikz' timestamp='1303132720' post='2692598'] So it has come to this? Signing an ODP..... I hope you activate this some time in the future, makes you eligible for monstrous reps (by your own [i]logos[/i] or [i]λόγος[/i]) if by chance you would find yourselves on the loosing side. [/quote] Because clearly we would be getting off scot-free if we were on the losing side of a war that we entered in through another means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurion Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 (edited) [quote name='NoFish' timestamp='1303168400' post='2692915'] Because clearly we would be getting off scot-free if we were on the losing side of a war that we entered in through another means. [/quote] Hey, it could happen! ... [i][size="1"]No, I couldn't type that with a straight face.[/size][/i] Edited April 19, 2011 by Aurion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikz Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 [quote name='NoFish' timestamp='1303168400' post='2692915'] Because clearly we would be getting off scot-free if we were on the losing side of a war that we entered in through another means. [/quote] This is not about what you're going to get, this is about your actions and how they are contradicting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R&R-Viking Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 [quote name='erikz' timestamp='1303194493' post='2693389'] This is not about what you're going to get, this is about your actions and how they are contradicting. [/quote] They aren't really when you consider RIA and what Xiph already said in this thread, but ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balder Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 [quote name='erikz' timestamp='1303194493' post='2693389'] This is not about what you're going to get, this is about your actions and how they are contradicting. [/quote] Our actions do not become contradicting simply because you don't understand them, good sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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