Alterego Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 [quote name='Timmehhh' timestamp='1302333624' post='2687313'] It's not totally unexpected though with all the propaganda from our enemies which tries to portray VE and PB in a bad way. [/quote] You really dont think much of their intelligence if you think this was done because they read some propaganda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Sithis' timestamp='1302367548' post='2687443'] Yeah they're right after Duckroll [/quote] Its actually funny now because the at rate people are walking away from the hegemony it is fast becoming an impossible task instead of a lame attempt at keeping DR passive in its intention towards you. Edited April 10, 2011 by Alterego Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Janova Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 Considering that RoK and RIA have made their position on PB fairly clear, it's now utterly ridiculous to call us a 'hegemony'. It was always a bit marginal (this war shows that PB-SF-MK didn't have the strength to enforce their position on the rest of CN), but without SF it's just ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 You guys are holding what was the second-largest alliance in CN (and still is the eighth-largest) at war for no reason but the claim that they might be a threat to you someday. Not a hegemony? Suuuuure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lusitan Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 [quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1302433791' post='2687788'] You guys are holding what was the second-largest alliance in CN (and still is the eighth-largest) at war for no reason but the claim that they might be a threat to you someday. Not a hegemony? Suuuuure. [/quote] Actually right now it has more to do with making a point than them being a threat, in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 [quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1302433509' post='2687786'] Considering that RoK and RIA have made their position on PB fairly clear, it's now utterly ridiculous to call us a 'hegemony'. It was always a bit marginal (this war shows that PB-SF-MK didn't have the strength to enforce their position on the rest of CN), but without SF it's just ridiculous. [/quote] You seem to be enforcing your will on a sizable group of alliances who did nothing. Aren’t you forgetting C&G. You still have a core group of nearly a dozen alliances and another large group allied to them willing to wage a war of annihilation of this group of alliances for nothing. Yeah your hegemony is weaker than it was when the war started but its still the hegemony, read the DH DoW again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 [quote name='Lusitan' timestamp='1302434286' post='2687790'] Actually right now it has more to do with making a point than them being a threat, in my opinion. [/quote] You are not making the argument of not being a hegemony very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lusitan Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 [quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1302435211' post='2687794'] You are not making the argument of not being a hegemony very well. [/quote] I am not making an argument because that is pointless. No one with a little bit of common sense would see us an hegemony. We do not have the capacity, the support nor the strength to oppress the whole Planet. On the other hand we do have the capacity, support and the strength to make NPO surrender to our terms. But that, as far as it goes, makes us an hegemony over NPO (lol), not the Planet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 [quote name='Lusitan' timestamp='1302436498' post='2687796'] I am not making an argument because that is pointless. No one with a little bit of common sense would see us an hegemony. We do not have the capacity, the support nor the strength to oppress the whole Planet. [/quote] No grouping has ever had that capacity. Seriously, do you think the Continuum oppressed the entire planet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Lusitan' timestamp='1302436498' post='2687796'] I am not making an argument because that is pointless. No one with a little bit of common sense would see us an hegemony. We do not have the capacity, the support nor the strength to oppress the whole Planet. On the other hand we do have the capacity, support and the strength to make NPO surrender to our terms. But that, as far as it goes, makes us an hegemony over NPO (lol), not the Planet. [/quote] If DH/PB/C&G & allies dont have the power to oppress the world how does NPO have the power to oppress the world. That is why you are trying to destroy them after all. You are forgetting the many posts including gov members and alliance leaders accepting that they are the hegemony and a desire to be as bad as NPO were during the course of this war, often laughing about it and telling people to do something about it. Edited April 10, 2011 by Alterego Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastermind Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 I understand this from both sides. If VE feels they weren't properly informed, then I'm sure its not without reason. But RIA doesn't wanna be obligated in the future to a VE conflict they don't agree with. At least not in the sense of assisting world domination. Its a very two sided issue. But best of luck to VE and RIA. I hope it all works out for the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Greenberg Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 [quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1302433509' post='2687786'] Considering that RoK and RIA have made their position on PB fairly clear, it's now utterly ridiculous to call us a 'hegemony'. It was always a bit marginal (this war shows that PB-SF-MK didn't have the strength to enforce their position on the rest of CN), but without SF it's just ridiculous. [/quote] The GOD-VE MDAP kind of puts a dent in SF leaving your side, It'll be interesting to see what happens I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Janova Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 Yes, it must be a complicated time to be in SF. [quote]how does NPO have the power to oppress the world[/quote] What? No-one's claiming that. There is some claim that they were threatening to do so in the future, which is very subjective, and they (along with a few other core alliances) really did so through the structures of The Hegemony in a way which really isn't replicated by the current power blocs. (People were genuinely afraid to drop ties with NPO during the Initiative/Continuum era in a way which clearly isn't the case for Pandora's Box.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berbers Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 [quote name='Lusitan' timestamp='1302434286' post='2687790'] Actually right now it has more to do with making a point than them being a threat, in my opinion. [/quote] Ah yes, the ol' "do as we say or you will get perma-war" point, awesome! That's actually worse than beating on them for being a future threat... Your point was made a month ago "we don't like people spending the war in peace mode." Everyone get's it, we all understand your point. The entire month of March when you guys destroyed another multiple million NS from the NPO side got the point across. You can all pack your things up and go home now, message received. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jens of the desert Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 [quote name='D34th' timestamp='1302366112' post='2687436'] Translation: You joined our hit list RIA. [/quote] You are always so insightful D34th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1302416826' post='2687740'] Sounds like you had a super fun saturday night! I almost feel bad for you really. [/quote] Compared to what? Saturday night with VE's two alcohol-fueled rage bros? [04:02] <WasDroganAFK> Hey impero, thanks for the money land and tech, got any more noobs who need spanking? [04:02] <~Impero[VE]> whatr [04:03] <~Impero[VE]> your a dfducking idiot [04:03] <~Impero[VE]> you werwe at like 40 infra [04:03] <~Impero[VE]> basemtne dweller [04:03] <~Impero[VE]> go away [04:03] <~Impero[VE]> stop trying to axct big [04:03] <&Sethb[VE]> !@#$%* !@#$ [04:03] <WasDroganAFK> lowest ive seen so far is about 280 infra [04:03] <~Impero[VE]> pice of garbage [04:03] <~Impero[VE]> go cry [04:06] <~Impero[VE]> your gov makes fun of you [04:06] <~Impero[VE]> and leaks faske !@#$ to you [04:06] <~Impero[VE]> its funny [04:06] <Avakael[RnR|BBL]> ^Drunk, drunk, drunk, and possibly stoned, too. [04:06] <~Impero[VE]> yeap [04:09] <~Impero[VE]> aww the little 13yearold dorks stoepd trying to be tough [04:09] <~Impero[VE]> too bad [04:09] <~Impero[VE]> i wonderr if they had a lonely new years [04:10] <+lurk> maybe they got cockblocked too [04:10] <~Impero[VE]> nah [04:10] <~Impero[VE]> kids like WickedJ cant gete within 10 yeards of a chick [04:10] <~Impero[VE]> damsky [04:10] <~Impero[VE]> etc [04:11] <~Impero[VE]> theyu sit on the interent and cry [04:11] <&Sethb[VE]> and say [04:12] <&Sethb[VE]> u mad [04:12] <~Impero[VE]> yea [04:12] <~Impero[VE]> u mad [04:12] <~Impero[VE]> look gutys [04:12] <~Impero[VE]> i said u masd [04:16] <~Impero[VE]> i lvoed making fun of peopel liek you in highschool [04:16] <~Impero[VE]> i bet you got pusshed around alot [04:16] <~Impero[VE]> good times Sounds like I'm missing all the fun in Impero-land; it looks like it would be like living in an after-school special. Do you think you and SethB could teach me how to be cool and have rockin' Saturdays? [quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1302449227' post='2687855'] Yes, it must be a complicated time to be in SF. What? No-one's claiming that. There is some claim that they were threatening to do so in the future, which is very subjective, and they (along with a few other core alliances) really did so through the structures of The Hegemony in a way which really isn't replicated by the current power blocs. (People were genuinely afraid to drop ties with NPO during the Initiative/Continuum era in a way which clearly isn't the case for Pandora's Box.) [/quote] Ohhhhh, Bob [quote name='Delta1212' timestamp='1302361681' post='2687412'] Let's take IAA as an example. Leaving aside the fact that it was made very clear to me by certain parties that [b]if I didn't help your side, we'd be attacked[/b] for fighting SLCB, because honestly, I was going to help you anyway since that's what good allies do, I was still given the options of "Declare war on an alliance who is fighting the same alliance as Ragnarok" or "Declare war on an alliance who is fighting iFOK" which I shouldn't have to point out, doesn't exactly seem to be a fan of ours.[/quote] You can wrap your hegemony up in as pretty a dress as it will fit in and sit a NPO dummy next to it that looks super scary all day long, but that does not change the fact that you are the current hegemony. We shouldn't be surprised that you refuse to cop to it, after all you spent your entire career in Grämlins gov doing the same thing for NPO, but please just keep your mouth shut and stop insulting our intelligence. That way you don't have to lie, we don't have to listen to your crap, and we can all go about our business. The thing of it is, I didn't even go for the hegemony thing until a couple months ago. Yep, you guys got me reallll good, I just stuck my fingers in my ears and told all my buddies to grow up there was no ~neo-hegemony~. But, reality always catches up with people, and here we are. You're charging reps in aggressive wars; forcing your allies to go to war under threat of war; using double-agents to set up foreign governments; four, count 'em, 4 overlapping blocs which all act in tandem and with impunity; punitive reps being charged on the basis of "I despise Schattenmann on a personal level."[snapback]2670506[/snapback] and "<Sardonic>they lampooned us on the forum". Welcome to the new world that MK and its allies keep promising; it is accomplished through hegemony. And today RIA woke up and found the courage to step away from it, and good on them for it. Edited April 10, 2011 by Schattenmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnCapistan Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 [quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1302416826' post='2687740'] Sounds like you had a super fun saturday night! I almost feel bad for you really. [/quote] I know what you mean, bro. I remember back in High School, I used to make fun of people like him in the halls everyday. Then when I got home, I cooked myself some frozen burritos and got totally !@#$@#$ smashed. Good times. Schatt, you need to become as cool as me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Virginia Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 [quote name='Lusitan' timestamp='1302434286' post='2687790'] Actually right now it has more to do with making a point than them being a threat, in my opinion. [/quote] [color="#0000FF"]What point? That they can never ever rebuild as long as you're in power? That no alliance can be of any real size unless they've been given your blessing to exist? And you wonder why RIA wishes to have nothing to do with you.[/color] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 [quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1302455296' post='2687904'] [color="#0000FF"]What point? That they can never ever rebuild as long as you're in power? That no alliance can be of any real size unless they've been given your blessing to exist? And you wonder why RIA wishes to have nothing to do with you.[/color] [/quote] Don't be silly, RV, didn't you get the memo? "We near the end. The end of forced disbandment. The end of terms that cripple alliances forever. The end of silence for fear of persecution. The end of the influence of those who would overthrow these goals in favor of their own return to power. The end of cowardice. The end of myth and fear. The end of this war." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefjoe Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Lusitan' timestamp='1302436498' post='2687796'] I am not making an argument because that is pointless. No one with a little bit of common sense would see us an hegemony. We do not have the capacity, the support nor the strength to oppress the whole Planet. On the other hand we do have the capacity, support and the strength to make NPO surrender to our terms. But that, as far as it goes, makes us an hegemony over NPO (lol), not the Planet. [/quote] [quote]Hegemony (UK: /hɨˈdÊ’É›mÉ™ni/ or /hɨˈgÉ›mÉ™ni/; US: /ˈhÉ›dʒɨmoÊŠni/; Greek: ἡγεμονία hÄ“gemonÃa, "leadership" or "hegemon" for "leader") [1] [2]is the political, economic, ideological or cultural power exerted by a dominant group over other groups.[/quote] No where does it say you have to "oppress the whole planet" for it to be considered a Hegemony.....your group is dominant ATM, you are CERTAINLY exerting power over another weaker group. You fit the defination in all ways, by word and action. If it makes you sad to be a hegemony then do something about it other then try and spout off 'We arent oneeee' as that argument is invalid, although amusing for its inanity Edited April 10, 2011 by chefjoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 (edited) [quote name='chefjoe' timestamp='1302458405' post='2687931'] No where does it say you have to "oppress the whole planet" for it to be considered a Hegemony.....your group is dominant ATM, you are CERTAINLY exerting power of another weaker group. You fit the defination in all ways, by word and action. If it makes you sad to be a hegemony then do something about it other then try and spout off 'We arent oneeee' as that argument is invalid, although amusing for its inanity [/quote] Careful CJ, you don't wanna end up paying them reps for lampooning them like me. Anyway, they're saving you from NPO, you should be thanking them. Edited April 10, 2011 by Schattenmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crimson King Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 [quote name='Lusitan' timestamp='1302436498' post='2687796'] I am not making an argument because that is pointless. No one with a little bit of common sense would see us an hegemony. We do not have the capacity, the support nor the strength to oppress the whole Planet. [b]On the other hand we do have the capacity, support and the strength to make NPO surrender to our terms. But that, as far as it goes, makes us an hegemony over NPO (lol), not the Planet.[/b] [/quote] Technically this is accurate of any winner in any war that has ever been fought here. The winner always holds the upper hand in being able to dictate terms to the loser. It is in large part how they use that power that then defines them to the community. This was true of us when we were on top, and it is true of you now that you are. One of the reasons that RoK does not get grief from the community about the 2 wars they started since Karma, is that their actions showed they are smart enough to know when a war is won, and they will walk away at that point. Both the NSO and the TPF wars were ended after a short period of war, and in both cases were not escalated. RoK had their target, they took their swings, scored their punches, shook hands and left the ring. People can claim that the NSO war was really about NPO, and while no one doubts the wolves were waiting in the shadows frothing at the mouth for NPO's entry, RoK does have the ability to point to their actions in that war to swiftly discredit those accusations. Now if you can't see the difference between that and this war then you are either blind or being purposefully obtuse. Putting a double agent in play and planting info to give to an alliance (that just happens to be MDoAP with your allies) and then using it to roll them. Dragging another alliance into a war they had no involvement in via aggressive declaration, demanding reps from alliances multiple treaty chains out from the center of the conflict for an aggressive war you started, continuing a war over the "threat" posed by 19 total nations remaining in PM, peacing out the supposed main antagonist in this war (with white peace) so the actual supposed wronged party in this war (VE) can re-declare on other allies of NPO while peace was being discussed, and claiming they are doing so to "force" people to take the generous reps being offered by MK, and, as you said, refusing to back down from your demands out of nothing but pure spite so that you can show NPO who is really boss, are all actions that speak volumes about the bloc and the individual alliances still at war here. As both you and Bob have said, this is no longer about NPO being a threat, it is about proving a point. You are keeping people at war on both this side and your allies (who are still the ones with the bulk of the actual wars here, and yet are also the ones willing to walk away with white peace) over what ammts to nothing but simple pride. So yes you are making a point, and you are reinforcing that point every-time you roll out onto en mass on the forums telling everyone how badass DH is for still pursuing this. You "point" has been made crystal clear by now, and while it is certainly yours to make, your choices and actions will be what other people judge you on, and by some extension those alliances you are tied to and those still fighting for you. That is no different then when Q was on top, and it is eventually why some people decided it was time to distance themselves from us rather than get painted with the broad strokes of that same brush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Charge Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1302454147' post='2687890'] Compared to what? Saturday night with VE's two alcohol-fueled rage bros? [04:02] <WasDroganAFK> Hey impero, thanks for the money land and tech, got any more noobs who need spanking? [04:02] <~Impero[VE]> whatr [04:03] <~Impero[VE]> your a dfducking idiot [04:03] <~Impero[VE]> you werwe at like 40 infra [04:03] <~Impero[VE]> basemtne dweller [04:03] <~Impero[VE]> go away [04:03] <~Impero[VE]> stop trying to axct big [04:03] <&Sethb[VE]> !@#$%* !@#$ [04:03] <WasDroganAFK> lowest ive seen so far is about 280 infra [04:03] <~Impero[VE]> pice of garbage [04:03] <~Impero[VE]> go cry [04:06] <~Impero[VE]> your gov makes fun of you [04:06] <~Impero[VE]> and leaks faske !@#$ to you [04:06] <~Impero[VE]> its funny [04:06] <Avakael[RnR|BBL]> ^Drunk, drunk, drunk, and possibly stoned, too. [04:06] <~Impero[VE]> yeap [04:09] <~Impero[VE]> aww the little 13yearold dorks stoepd trying to be tough [04:09] <~Impero[VE]> too bad [04:09] <~Impero[VE]> i wonderr if they had a lonely new years [04:10] <+lurk> maybe they got cockblocked too [04:10] <~Impero[VE]> nah [04:10] <~Impero[VE]> kids like WickedJ cant gete within 10 yeards of a chick [04:10] <~Impero[VE]> damsky [04:10] <~Impero[VE]> etc [04:11] <~Impero[VE]> theyu sit on the interent and cry [04:11] <&Sethb[VE]> and say [04:12] <&Sethb[VE]> u mad [04:12] <~Impero[VE]> yea [04:12] <~Impero[VE]> u mad [04:12] <~Impero[VE]> look gutys [04:12] <~Impero[VE]> i said u masd [04:16] <~Impero[VE]> i lvoed making fun of peopel liek you in highschool [04:16] <~Impero[VE]> i bet you got pusshed around alot [04:16] <~Impero[VE]> good times Sounds like I'm missing all the fun in Impero-land; it looks like it would be like living in an after-school special. Do you think you and SethB could teach me how to be cool and have rockin' Saturdays? Ohhhhh, Bob [/quote] For hating VE so much you sure seem to stoop down to their level way too often. Classy log dump though. By the way, congrats on another thread derailment. As hard as it is to believe, this thread [s]has[/s] had nothing to do with NPO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Williambonney Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 [quote name='Lusitan' timestamp='1302434286' post='2687790'] Actually right now it has more to do with making a point than them being a threat, in my opinion. [/quote] Curses, those rebels have perfected our magic ball and made it work even better than before. The dark lord displeases me in his inability to retrieve the plans. I shall ask Mary to send him assistance via our altered delorean that we stole the plans of from dh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Janova Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 [quote]The thing of it is, I didn't even go for the hegemony thing until a couple months ago. Yep, you guys got me reallll good, I just stuck my fingers in my ears and told all my buddies to grow up there was no ~neo-hegemony~.[/quote] Shame they managed to convince you of another untruth then. [quote]You're charging reps in aggressive wars[/quote] The winners of wars have charged reps throughout history. While I don't agree with it (and in fact VE has not done so in this war), that's not hegemonic, it just means we're winning. [quote]forcing your allies to go to war under threat of war[/quote] That is ... a large amount of spin, to put it mildly. (I guess you are referring to RIA?) [quote]using double-agents to set up foreign governments[/quote] No, just no. Anyone who still thinks that Lennox was working for us at this point is either an idiot or being intentionally blind to try and make a point. I don't think you're an idiot, so please stop using a lie to make a point. [quote]four, count 'em, 4 overlapping blocs which all act in tandem and with impunity[/quote] You realise you're posting this in a thread where [i]a second major SF alliance shows that they're not in tandem with PB[/i], right? What's the fourth, C&G? They're hardly overlapping with PB or working closely with us, except that they all wanted a piece of NPO as well. [quote]punitive reps being charged on the basis of "I despise Schattenmann on a personal level." and "<Sardonic>they lampooned us on the forum".[/quote] That's hardly a sign of hegemony when they're doing it against a tiny, powerless and poorly connected alliance. I don't really agree with it myself, however annoying you are, but all that shows is that GOONS have far more power than [i]you[/i], not anything to do with them being in a hegemonic position. By the way, tremendous class you're showing with the log dump there. [quote]you spent your entire career in Grämlins gov doing the same thing for NPO[/quote] Nice ad hom, except it's far from accurate. That could be levelled at me with a certain amount of justification over the first few months of Continuum, up to the GPA war – it's called giving the benefit of the doubt to new allies, and besides, since we didn't really consider ourself part of the same grouping as NpO/BLEU, it wasn't clear that it was a hegemony at that point. (It is now, hindsight is wonderful, huh?) You're forgetting the year before Continuum and the year and a half after the GPA war when I was largely opposing them. Should I cast your 'entire career' as a GOON spy? CJ, I don't agree that without SF PB is in a dominant position. The coalition sizes in this war were pretty close, and that's with SF mostly on our side and with the extra support that hitting the Orders brings. [quote]As both you and Bob have said, this is no longer about NPO being a threat, it is about proving a point[/quote] I said that? Link please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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