Timmmehhh

[quote name='Ruggerdawg' date='10 March 2010 - 01:10 AM' timestamp='1268180169' post='2219936'] Timehhh, you probably should have looked harder. It has [b][i]always[/i][/b] been there. I estimate that if you were looking at Echelon's treaties to "anticipate possible counters" you probably didn't spend a lot of time looking over our protectorates. And even if you did, SBA and UD are pretty small. I'd actually be impressed if you did remember them. Protectorates do not typically contribute significantly in major wars, so why would you have invested much? Instead, you probably focused more of your attention on IRON, NADC, RDD, etc. [/quote] This might certainly be true, I might have overlooked it, but I have a good memory though. Still doesn't change the fact that the their wiki said they disbanded. Also the treatylist on your own forums is out of date so it isn't really a credible source. For example the treaties with GGA and House of Lords are cancelled, but are still on the list. It could very well be possible that SBA was already disbanded but still needed to be removed from the list from PC's point of view.

I have checked and studied the echelon treaties during the war to anticipate possible counters on FOK but I haven't seen a treaty or protectorate with SBA. The wiki page from SBA also showed that SBA disbanded before Echelon members edited the page.

He needs a stagger today! http://www.cybernations.net/search_wars.asp?searchstring=Declaring_Alliance%2CReceiving_Alliance&search=The%20Orders%20of%20the%20Paradox&anyallexact=exact

This makes sense, Argent and FOK were never really as close as we should be and both of us had a different FA path which we saw the result of in this war. The treaty cancellation was imho only a matter of time. With that said I want to wish Argent good luck in the future.

He could use a stagger, so if someone is willing to "raid" him, be my guest http://www.cybernations.net/search_wars.asp?search=141164&Extended=1

[quote name='bigwoody' date='02 March 2010 - 05:58 PM' timestamp='1267549305' post='2211416'] Ok, now you're just changing your talking point. The main reason we wanted a quick white peace was to help on other fronts and win the war. But at least you got what we wanted (white peace) right this time, have a gold star. [/quote] What other fronts?

[quote name='CylonNL' date='28 February 2010 - 06:48 PM' timestamp='1267379490' post='2208504'] What a useless discussion. The victorious alliances have to right to impose terms after a war. Under any circumstances, wether they've been on the defending or agressive side. That's how it has worked for centuries, both here and in the real world. It's their own sovereign choice to do so. This moral debate over justification and harshness is going nowhere and only turning into a NO U! discussion. It isn't going to change a damn thing about it, you can either agree with it or not. I personally enjoy a good fight and leave it at that. But if they want reps, let them have it. People, allies and enemies alike, won't forget such things quickly. [/quote] You have some very good points Cylon. When do you come to FOK? The door is always open for you.

The reps for Sparta, being the defender in this specific front, are somewhat understandable because they were hurt a lot and took a huge amount of damage. However In my opinion it's morally wrong for Monas Archein and Nemesis to ask for these amounts of reps. What exactly has TOOL done to warrant these reps? In my book they are a really friendly alliance who just happens to be on the wrong side of the web. I know it's the sovereign right of the victors to decide what terms they impose but personally I would have done it differently. Having that said I will congratulate Sparta/MA/Nemesis/RIA/VE on the victory, you guys fought on the same side as us and are our allies allies, so I thank you for your help in this war.

[quote name='Alterego' date='28 February 2010 - 03:33 PM' timestamp='1267367847' post='2208250'] Sparta have managed to sneak around the world on the coat tails of others getting in on beat downs, dropping allies when its convenient and extorting massive amounts of reps year after year. Will they ever get the beatdown they deserve? [/quote] Sparta doesn't have an history of "extorting massive amounts of reps year after year" If I recall correctly this war is the first time Sparta has asked for reps. Both of them were in defensive fronts. The amounts were 10k tech for Legion after that "white peace debacle" and 800 million for TOOL, I wouldn't consider that massive.

o/ FARK, well done my allies Cheers to CSN GOD and NSO too.

Really happy to see white peace for NEW

That was fun. Well fought everyone o/

[quote name='Simon De Montfort' date='25 February 2010 - 07:40 PM' timestamp='1267123429' post='2203265'] Can we get a FOK member of gov to either confirm or deny this? [/quote] Divi Filius is acting president.

[quote name='Corinan' date='24 February 2010 - 02:57 PM' timestamp='1267020038' post='2201382'] Oh I'm not complaining at all. I'm having the most fun I've had in a long time. I'm just tired of people stating that peace has been on the table for us when it has, in fact, never been on the table. [/quote] I don't see how the log contradicts to what PostFireandthepassion has said. You went to Randomly with A Sith offer of white peace. PostFireandthepassion said that there was an offer on the table with Polaris offering to do the beer review and FARK doing a review as well in return, thats something different as far as I can tell.

Well fought USN o/ USN o/ FOK o/ Allies

[quote name='Tavish' date='24 February 2010 - 12:16 PM' timestamp='1267010428' post='2201247'] NpO attacked God in defense of NSO and in turn VE et al declared on us, the NSO seemed rather dismissive of our efforts and questioned why we even bothered. They had an opportunity for peace by giving a beer review and recieving a health food review in return, they declined. We were puzzled but continued to fight lustily with GOd,VE and Co and the continued vibe from NSO is "thanks but no thanks, we are in untill IRon gets peace, sorry". We make peace with VE et al (since it was of no help to NSO per their comunication) so as to concentrate on Top and suddenly it seems everyone is aghast that we "abandoned" NSO. Why some have even said we ignored God-VE with our 3k nukes and only fought Top (this of course after all the griping about only 1 Polar nation declaring on Top in the beginning). My nation has personally been to war with \M/, Poison Clan, VE, God, Misfits and now TOp. It was a good show by all nations involved with some taking more damage and some giving. Well done chaps! So I ponder, who do we have to fight so that it is known that this wasnt done to somehow elevate or position the NpO? My nation has taken a pounding but still survives and hopes beyond hope that the orders can be close again and eat cake. Better? (my mom helped me with it) [/quote]You have some valid points and I really like your style, well done

[quote name='LiquidMercury' date='23 February 2010 - 09:10 PM' timestamp='1266955833' post='2199424'] I'm sorry to see this happen. Now I'm even up in the air about whether a paperless route is the route to go. I thought friendships could exist even without, and maybe this is notice that we have no friendship amongst us, I do not know honestly. I for one would of protested any declaration of TOP hitting FOK in any arena and will continue to do my best to see both parties regain our friendship? I'm just kind of speechless on this one. To me this is the same as Umbrella, Argent, or Gremlins hitting us. Something I never, thought possible. I suppose I'm naive though. That being said, I wish FOK the best of luck and I suppose I'm still sacrificing my pixels for people I hold in the highest regard, even if they are being sacrificed towards those people. Again words escape me, and I must say the only thing appropriate here is, I'm sorry. Both as a TOP member that has allowed our friendship to degrade to this point, and as the person who proposed a pre-emp attack on your treaty partners. I truly am sorry that you are in the position you are in, due in large part to my own actions. o/ FOK. [/quote] I am also sad to see this has happened. FOK's only interest in this front is only to aid our allies who requested our help, when they don't longer need us our armies will depart the field. I wish you guys good luck and I know you will bounce back quickly after this war. o/ TOP

Never expected this to happen, bleh

[quote name='jesse james' date='23 February 2010 - 02:18 AM' timestamp='1266887881' post='2198244'] HAHAHAHAHAhAHAHA. oh anyways, thats what all of you get. I hope this thread goes to show everyone that no matter what, this game is suppose to be fun. and if you cant have fun with the people you are fighting along side with then you are in the wrong spot. I guess most of you have to be on the bigger side to have fun. but whatever. I can honestly say my nation doesnt mean a thing to me, its the fun I had building it that did, and the fun when i get to nuke the people who attack me. heres to another year. [/quote] I agree with this man. I never really understood the hate for TSO, and it's a strange thing when a group of people who left an alliance to form a new one had to pay massive reps to the alliance they were leaving, and after paying those reps they still seem hated. Good luck TSO, send Valashnu my regards.

[quote name='MagicalTrevor' date='23 February 2010 - 12:18 AM' timestamp='1266880694' post='2198059'] We may be on differing sides of this, but you've made many excellant posts this war and this is another. Especially your comments about karma. LM did do a lot of work yes, but look at the pure stats of that war, it was won before any "military planning" was put into play. [/quote] To be fair, the way the coincidential coalition formed and the strategy used during that war were imho quite good. Also I am fairly sure there would be a 100% victory for TOP if the NpO \m/ conflict didn't peace out. FOK was under heavy fire at the time from the entire Aztec bloc, and some smaller alliances like CCC and OV while fighting NpO. Nordreich was about to jump on FOK on the same update when the peace between \m/ and NpO happened. Stickmen was under heavy attack from very strong alliances like STA, and some minor ones like USN and had a small bloc like Valor on them. RnR was getting dogpiled by purple, they had 14 million NS on them (UPN, Invicta Quantum NSO and Hydra) Umbrella was massively outnumbered while fighting Nueva Vidia, NADC, NATO and The Foreign Division. The only alliance who was outnumbered on the other side was NSO. Also all the small alliances borderline alliances were coming in on the NpO side, and only a few ones were coming in our side. Their treaties chained way much better, they had basically every alliances who needed to enter one chain away (CDT, Purple ex Hegemony all was in early) while our side waited for everything to chain through Superfriends. I know FOK can hold up a very long time but we were also losing strength at a kinda fast rate. Things also weren't that well coordinated on our side, while it appeared Polar had a good lineup ready, FOK was basicly like "$%@! screw it we are going to help PC we will see what happens" Needless to say things didn't look great untill TOP, IRON and co declared on MK and the NpO \m/ peace happened and I am fairly confident if it wasn't for the peace we would have lost.

Happy birthday guys [img]http://therearenosunglasses.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/nuke.jpg?w=510&h=311[/img]

o/ WAPA o/ VE Special shoutout to WAPA, for holding out while being outnumbered badly. That really showed a lot of heart. Well done.

[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' date='19 February 2010 - 06:53 PM' timestamp='1266601981' post='2192226'] We were going to have allies on both sides of this war regardless of what was going to happen. Either we leave OMFG, OG and IRON out to dry or Umbrella and MHA. People are going to hate us either way so we decided to make a decision. I hate not helping some of our allies out but assisting the other side gain further control over this game was out of the question. [/quote] History proved otherwise, I think there might have been peace at-least before OMFG or OG would have entered. The peace-deal between \m/ and NpO showed all of us that peace wasn't that far away. Also FOK (one of the keyplayers of the "otherside") didn't go in "to gain full control over this game". If we really wanted control over this game, we wouldn't have started a war with NpO because it would probably be the worst strategic decision ever if that was our goal. Feanor I think you are an honest and upfront guy, but TOP should really start making FA choices in peacetime instead of simply choosing a side in a war because that will leave allies out to dry. [quote] If we wanted the best time to hit CnG we would have done so in late 2009 or earlier in 2010. Instead we worked out peaceful solutions to the problems. Did we enter into the war just to take a shot at CnG? No, that was not the reason. However, if you think you understand our reasoning better than I, the Grand Chancellor at the time, by all means continue to be delusional. [/quote] I am not totally aware of the situations you are referring too, but wouldn't that bring in alliances like NpO, Nueva Vida and STA (The ones who were now occupied fighting) against you too? I doubt they would have given their approval for such an attack nor would any other of the MK treaty-partners including FOK. Maybe the reason was not only to take a shot at C&G but it was a big part I think, you guys were way to paranoid that C&G was coming to get you. But lets get realistic nobody really wants to fight an alliance with good fighters and a very strong toptier like TOP. What was the reasoning for the entry of the war if I may ask? Besides Umbrella you had no direct treaties with the NpO-\m/ FOK PC conflict. Was it to help NSO (IRON treatypartner)out? Why have you guys not worked on a peaceful resolution in this conflict? You guys tend to do that in most conflicts. MK had also treaties on both sides and tried to negotiate peace several times. Beside my comments I want to say that I respect you guys for the way you are fighting, you guys seems to be better now at the military things than the diplomatic stuff

Well done guys. Mad respect for WAPA for holding out as long they did, truly a quality alliance. Now let us finish off TPF

o/ VE It's time to kill TPF. We will be with you guys soon