Nada2486 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 So? Perhaps getting their banks out of peace mode is more valuable to Karma than the offered increase of money? Karma worrys that it must cripple the NPO economy to keep it from becoming a world power again and taking back its red Sphere and getting its revenge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 The manner of the peace is important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragashingo Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Karma worrys that it must cripple the NPO economy to keep it from becoming a world power again and taking back its red Sphere and getting its revenge? Yes, actually it does. Your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nada2486 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 (edited) Yes, actually it does. Your point? Don't really have one there Maybe, remove the 2 extra week war and reduce the reps and NPO must not become one of the top two sanctioned alliances in the game?? Don't really know but think they would take the war. Edited June 13, 2009 by Nada2486 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Conrad Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 It leaves little doubt that this is true. However those in the karma coalition fighting Pacifica who do not agree with these terms should give white peace immediately to avoid being tainted by those who only wish further revenge.With any luck so many alliances will give peace to Pacifica that those aiming for "near disbandment terms" will have to start thinking about their survival instead of destroying NPO. I'd be even more happy with an all out white peace or mild terms. Please, abandoning your allies while at war is worse than any reps you can put forward. I sure hope no one bows to pressure and gives the middle finger to their war allies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragashingo Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Don't really have one there Maybe, remove the 2 extra week war and reduce the reps and NPO must not become one of the top two sanctioned alliances in the game?? Don't really know but think they would take the war. I would far rather have a limited amount of war / reps than an unlimited clause like "Never be in the top two." Unlimited clauses should never be used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 However I don't see that this topic helps anyone's cause, especially with peace so close, Is it? I fear that my original prediction when the war began that it would last until August is coming true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt Schmidt Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 World wars have been fought and lost; for every war is against the world and every war against the world is lost. -- Alice Walker U.S. novelist and poet. ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nada2486 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Well dunno how that works here, but i have seen it happen in other games. They eventually let them go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Please, abandoning your allies while at war is worse than any reps you can put forward. I sure hope no one bows to pressure and gives the middle finger to their war allies. That's very true - Karma has fought together and will give peace together. If it takes a little longer to sort out the value of the reparations, then so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironchef Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 (Londo Mollari @ Jun 13 2009, 05:52 AM) I would like for it to be known that, had I not worked to assemble surrender terms in the first place, that NPO would be in a state of indefinite war from a significant subset of the alliances attacking them. I'm well aware that these terms are harsh, as harsh as any that have ever been given. I wish I had the authority to negotiate all on my own, so that we could arrive at a set of terms that was acceptable to everyone. But I don't. I am but one leader of 18 alliances that are engaged with NPO, and the wishes of the many, not the one, rule the day. I have been a mouthpiece, and a negotiator, and but one leader of 18 sovereign alliances, all of whom have had their own demands, their own wishes, and their own ideas. For the NPO to pin the blame on me for this situation or these terms is the height of foolishness. I have negotiated DOWN from some of the original demands. Three weeks of additional war became two weeks, for instance. 50,000 minimum tech per month became 25,000, to allow for increased rebuilding aid. Do you all even have any idea of how hard it is to get so many different alliances to agree to ANYTHING? Do you imagine that I personally stipulated all these terms? Have you seen the terms I gave the GGA, which started the noCB war that ravaged my alliance and those of my friends? Where was my excessive vindictiveness there? Where was my hate? NPO, the choice of what happens to you next is quite literally in your hands. I have so little control over it that it barely matters. All you have done is publically call out someone who acted as a voice of moderation and reason in the enemy camp. Your public rejection of our consensus terms has been noted. They remain available for you to accept. Oh, and for anyone wondering, we crunched the numbers as to whether NPO could pull of these terms or not. We estimate it would take 3-4 months for NPO to send the reps, while allowing for rebuilding. This is based on the experience of multiple government officials that have had to organize reparations like these. There is also a clause in their terms which guarantees them 1 slot of rebuilding aid for every slot of reps, I didn't see that mentioned here. I worked to make these terms as good as I could, NPO. And you decide to bash me on the OWF. You know where to find us when you decide that attempting to garner sympathy on the OWF is less effective than sitting down and working with us. -Londo This man speaks the truth. Yes he does. It people like you that made him have to go to NPO with terms that are nothign but a lame attempt at revenge and nothing close to reasonable. Yes you keep saying over and over they can be paid in so many months. Ok good for you. But the big question is why ask for such things in the first place? CN has made a change or I thought it had. I was under the impression Karma alliance wanted a new day of justice and fairness in CN. What I see from this makes it clear I was wrong. The tech and cash being asked for here is not the issue, it’s the forcing of peace mode nations to come out so they can be beat on before you let them go, sad truly sad. CN is not a better place because of Karma, it’s just new names doing the same !@#$ as before. What a waste of time this has all been for a lot of nations. NPO I wish you luck in getting terms so this war can end. Karma alliances do the right and reasonable thing and offer something that is not based on revenge and hate so we can all move on and try to make this something we can all enjoy being a part of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Yes he does. It people like you that made him have to go to NPO with terms that are nothign but a lame attempt at revenge and nothing close to reasonable. Yes you keep saying over and over they can be paid in so many months. Ok good for you. But the big question is why ask for such things in the first place? CN has made a change or I thought it had. I was under the impression Karma alliance wanted a new day of justice and fairness in CN. What I see from this makes it clear I was wrong. The tech and cash being asked for here is not the issue, it’s the forcing of peace mode nations to come out so they can be beat on before you let them go, sad truly sad. CN is not a better place because of Karma, it’s just new names doing the same !@#$ as before. What a waste of time this has all been for a lot of nations. NPO I wish you luck in getting terms so this war can end. Karma alliances do the right and reasonable thing and offer something that is not based on revenge and hate so we can all move on and try to make this something we can all enjoy being a part of. You know what's funny ironchef? When you tricked NPO and TPF about you going back to the war just so you could cancel the treaty and align yourself to karma. Oh that PM you sent Moo regarding it was a beaut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Michaels Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 I saw it bantered around that nobody had responded to Cortath's post. In actuality, someone has: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...t&p=1611178 Just clearing stuff up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of the Port Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Oh really? What about the hundreds of nations that have deserted your alliance since the war began? They are no longer NPO nations. NPO Nations follow orders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dochartaigh Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Yes he does. It people like you that made him have to go to NPO with terms that are nothign but a lame attempt at revenge and nothing close to reasonable. Yes you keep saying over and over they can be paid in so many months. Ok good for you. But the big question is why ask for such things in the first place? CN has made a change or I thought it had. I was under the impression Karma alliance wanted a new day of justice and fairness in CN. What I see from this makes it clear I was wrong. The tech and cash being asked for here is not the issue, it’s the forcing of peace mode nations to come out so they can be beat on before you let them go, sad truly sad. CN is not a better place because of Karma, it’s just new names doing the same !@#$ as before. What a waste of time this has all been for a lot of nations. NPO I wish you luck in getting terms so this war can end. Karma alliances do the right and reasonable thing and offer something that is not based on revenge and hate so we can all move on and try to make this something we can all enjoy being a part of. you must be ignoring the great amount of white peace and lenient terms that have already been offered to many alliances including your own already. so seriously, one alliance getting harsh terms is far better than NPO has done in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seerow Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 The sheer size of this thread is ridiculous. You should all be ashamed for letting it get this big. NPO: Seriously you guys deserve harsh terms as much as anybody out there ever has. You really don't have room to complain. Karma: You guys are as bad as them. First for enabling them by leaving such loose ended terms that they can turn into a PR stunt like this. Second for arguing so much that the thread was allowed to explode like this. This is just as bad as the terms for peace mode nations. This is your second attempt to get a swipe at the nations in peace, and your second fumbling of the attempt. At this point I really am struggling to figure out if this is intentional, and you've given up on PR and just want to keep the war going as long as you feel it is feasible, or if you are just incompetent and unable to write something down without leaving glaring loopholes that make the opposition feel insecure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin McDonald Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 I have to vent a little here. I understand how an alliance can be subjugated to being responsible for actions years ago, but is this some new CN precedent that is going to be set? Are alliances going to pay for all their past mistakes? Even when at the times certain actions were deemed correct? I mean think in general how much CN has changed. If alliances are going to be punished for actions deemed inappropriate years after they happened, we could have an interesting CN in future wars, lol. Are we going to see alliances punished for involvement in "x" war where one side did something "unjust" w/ reparations? What would you have the cutoff be then? The leadership of the NPO has not changed much in 3 years. If your entire (or even just a large portion of it) gov't had changed then perhaps you'd have a point. However, in 3 years it has been much of the same people doing the same things. That, I feel, is why previous transgressions are fair game. You should know about that, it's why Polar was hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironchef Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 You know what's funny ironchef? When you tricked NPO and TPF about you going back to the war just so you could cancel the treaty and align yourself to karma.Oh that PM you sent Moo regarding it was a beaut You lost me here WC, I dont see us alligned with any Karma alliance. There was no trick or anything of the like in anything GGA has done in this war. Now back on topic. I hope to see terms come soon that NPO and Karma can live with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterShadow Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 I was going to post but I think that everything has been said in the past 100 pages. You will probably see me quitting shortly enough and my nation probably has a billion worth of wonders so would you take that off the reps? Clearly I am one of the "feared" recovery nations. I have all but 1 or 2 economic wonder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dochartaigh Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 What would you have the cutoff be then? The leadership of the NPO has not changed much in 3 years. If your entire (or even just a large portion of it) gov't had changed then perhaps you'd have a point. However, in 3 years it has been much of the same people doing the same things. That, I feel, is why previous transgressions are fair game.You should know about that, it's why Polar was hit. just to note, previous to the war, Polar's gov did undergo changes. yes some old names were still there but not many. Polar even had a new Emperor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Conrad Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Wrong.Echelon received very similar offers, minus the 2 week war demand. No other offers have been brought to the table. Perhaps because of their cheap attempt at grandstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dochartaigh Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 I was going to post but I think that everything has been said in the past 100 pages. You will probably see me quitting shortly enough and my nation probably has a billion worth of wonders so would you take that off the reps? Clearly I am one of the "feared" recovery nations. I have all but 1 or 2 economic wonder. why not quit after helping pay the reps off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKNorton3 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 But what about 90% of our nations out of peace mode for 14 days?. Forgot about that in your calculations didn't you?. Well, you have more nations than any other alliance before... why shouldn't you pay more reps than in the past? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirMe Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Moo: Yo guys I got these terms from !@#$@#$ Karma and they are totally jank. I !@#$@#$ hate those dudes all they do is lie.Moo: Oh !@#$, also Id like to give a shout out to my boyz in GATO... no hard feelings right? lol Mhawk: I say good sir, those Karma blokes are very rude indeed. Karma: OH COME ON Pacifica: *Drool* o/ o/ o/ NO WAY JOSE Karma: come on guiz cant we work this out Everyone: BAAAAAAW QQQQ Stumpy: I hate that Pacifica man they stole my house sons of !@#$%*es. Everyone: ^ lol QFT Karma: QQQQQ Pacfica: No u Karma: No u Londo: I respectfully disagree, for I fear it is in fact no u. Stumpy: *Getting crazy* MY !@#$@#$ HOUSE Pacifica: YOU ARE AS BAD AS US... wait... Karma: lol told you so ODN: OH HAI GUIZ Pacifica: No u Karma: no u NSO: I dont really know who Im rooting for but no u. Karma: oh hai Pacifica: ^ lol monster Karma: SHUT UP YOU DICK Pacifica: I may be a dick but who am I? Karma: That doesnt make any sense. Alterego: MONSTER MONSTER MONSTER Karma: Not you again. Stumpy: *Wild Gibberish* I WANT MY HOUSE BACK BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD. Everyone: Stumpy you ok? Stumpy: *bashes head on monitor* Everyone: uhhhh k. Corthath: LOOK AT MEH NUMBERS. Azaghul: NO LOOK AT MEH NUMBERS. Everyone: ITS A MATH OFF. ITS A MATH OFF. Karma: Man your numbers suck. Pacifica: No u Karma: nou GGA: no me.. wait Ill leave. mhawk: Man you suck stumpy. Stumpy: At least I dont suck mhawk: Learn 2 math. Stumpy: Learn 2 history. /insert Stumpy and mhawk beating each other senseless. Everyone: Lol look at all the pages. James Dahl: PRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOF. AirMe: lol k hur u go James Dahl: PROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOF AirMe: o________O Stumpy: *Foaming at the mouth* I HATE YOU ALL DONT CALL ME A LIAR NEVER FORGET BAAAAAAAAAW Pacifica: Wtf is wrong with him? Everyone: We dont really know. Alterego: Man I hate that TDSM8, those guys suck. Mhawk: YEAH! Karma: You dont know !@#$. Pacifica/Mhawk/Alterego: no u Karma: no u James Dahl: PROOOOOOOOOOF Everyone: SHUT UP mhawk: no u? Everyone: Oh God why are we still wasting our time in this !@#$%* thread? Stumpy: I dont really know. I made it into a Stumparry!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kotic Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 But you see, we never said it was wrong, hence me putting "crimes" in caps. Karma, on the other hand, did. Karma can get off its platform and stop preaching; they have finally shown their true hypocrisy. i find it completly hilrouse when you say karma shouls stop preaching and we have show our "hypocrisy" NPO is a much of hypocrits. they HAVE practiced ZI. and EZI and PERMZI. i find it SOOOO FUNNNY im actually laughing in my seat.NPO has made alliances disban and felt no regret. NOW KARMA is puting a stop to the BS and is threating to cripple your alliance to the point of Disbanment and NOW you find it a problem? hypocrites. plain and simple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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