A Neutral's Blog

It's exactly to satirize stereotypes. The fact that some people are too dense to get the joke is funny in and of itself.

If I might use a metaphor:

Imagine I formed a rogue alliance. In said rogue alliance we had a sizable group of people, say 40 or so.

The name of my alliance is "Ghettoville". I role-play the black leader of an inner city gang and the members all role-play black members. We create propaganda pictures, avatars, etc. of stereotypical black people. We post with poor grammar and slang.

We declare war on NPO for being on the red team because our gang colors are blue. The whole time I portray this war as a gang war between inner city, majority black gangs. I make a few announcements about how the NPO is encroaching on our turf and stealing our drug profits.

Offensive or satirical?

It's all a matter of perspective and how thick your skin is I guess. Satire is meant to be offensive/shocking on certain levels, that's the appeal of it in some ways. Mushquaeda rubs me wrong in some ways (like the joke threads about "identifying jews in CN" on the MK boards), but it's clear that they're just role-playing a satirical role. Nothing more or less. No need to take offense where none is meant.

Just a small correction: you wouldn't name it"Ghettoville" to create the same effect. Something strictly within the confines of the gang you wish to portray would be a better name. Mushqaeda is, fairly clearly, named after Al Qaeda, a group of radical Muslims. MQ is a parody/satire of radical Muslims, not intended to be offensive to all Muslims.

If you want something offensive, look at Zulu. Bad posting should not be excused because "haha he's roleplaying a black leader from history!!!" If that was an excuse for typing outside of English, we could give D34th free reign to post in whatever-language-he-speaks (I always forget where he's from, I know he's Latin/Hispanic)

I'm also not exactly clear how mocking the Muslim faith, building an AA themed around terrorism, and posting pictures of 9/11 attacks with tasteless MQ propaganda plastered on them in our IRC channel doesn't violate the CN ToS.

I'm also not exactly clear how mocking the Muslim faith, building an AA themed around terrorism, and posting pictures of 9/11 attacks with tasteless MQ propaganda plastered on them in our IRC channel doesn't violate the CN ToS.

What term would that violate, exactly?

Erm. I'm thinking number 2.

Just a small correction: you wouldn't name it"Ghettoville" to create the same effect. Something strictly within the confines of the gang you wish to portray would be a better name. Mushqaeda is, fairly clearly, named after Al Qaeda, a group of radical Muslims. MQ is a parody/satire of radical Muslims, not intended to be offensive to all Muslims.

If you want something offensive, look at Zulu. Bad posting should not be excused because "haha he's roleplaying a black leader from history!!!" If that was an excuse for typing outside of English, we could give D34th free reign to post in whatever-language-he-speaks (I always forget where he's from, I know he's Latin/Hispanic)

Zulu is pretty bad, roleplaying as a terrorist group that killed thousands of people over recent years is no where near as bad as roleplaying as a tribesman from Africa that is black.

I'm not sure what Zulu was thinking when he decided to roleplay as that.

God forbid if someone was to roleplay as a knight, I think I would die from being offended so much.

I would probably also die if someone roleplayed as a Chinese emperor and spoke in broken English on purpose to fit the character they're roleplaying.

Or if anyone changed their use of language to fit a character, it is wrong and you should feel bad.

There is a line that you do not cross, when you change your normal style to roleplay as a character then you crossed it.

Roleplaying as Muslim terrorists is fine though.

Erm. I'm thinking number 2.

If that is an issue to you, you might want to have a word with your wartime allies in the Christian Coalition of Countries.

It's exactly to satirize stereotypes. The fact that some people are too dense to get the joke is funny in and of itself.

Too dense, or just uninterested in sorting through whatever level of meta-irony MKers think they're acting on?

Personally, I'm glad to see some RPing going on and don't really care about the joke. But the giggling that you can practically hear from behind the screen is pretty annoying

MQ is a parody/satire of radical Muslims, not intended to be offensive to all Muslims.

Satire of radical Muslims, or satire of people who think Muslims are this way?

Too dense, or just uninterested in sorting through whatever level of meta-irony MKers think they're acting on?

Personally, I'm glad to see some RPing going on and don't really care about the joke. But the giggling that you can practically hear from behind the screen is pretty annoying

Satire of radical Muslims, or satire of people who think Muslims are this way?

I guess it could be both. I didn't phrase it very well, but I could see it going both ways (it's actually probably the latter now that I think of it; believe it or not, MK's culture is filled with Good People who try not to stereotype etc)

If that is an issue to you, you might want to have a word with your wartime allies in the Christian Coalition of Countries.

Um....please tell me when the Christian Coalition of Countries has used "...rude, inappropriate, threatening, harassing, malicious, defamatory, or obscene comments, messages, ruler names, nation names, bios, or any other such offensive or harmful content."??? I'd like to see it.

Edit: For the record, I don't think the whole Mushqaeda thing is all that big of a deal, even though I can cite examples where MQ probably has crossed the line, I'm just a very difficult person to offend. If Roo's examples are to be believed (and I believe them due to my own experiences with MQ over time) then those are certainly examples where, imo, they clearly break the rules of the game, even though they don't personally offend me.

I guess it could be both. I didn't phrase it very well, but I could see it going both ways (it's actually probably the latter now that I think of it; believe it or not, MK's culture is filled with Good People who try not to stereotype etc)

Well, I think the phrasing and either interpretation are fine, it underscores what I'm trying to get at here: That if we can reasonably wonder exactly who the joke is on, then it's understandable that some people will just see a bunch of racially/politically intense imagery and language, and not get (or care) that there's some kind of clever point to it. And I'm not convinced that there even is.

Like I said though, I'm not offended, I just find MK ironic in-jokes annoying.

Um....please tell me when the Christian Coalition of Countries has used "...rude, inappropriate, threatening, harassing, malicious, defamatory, or obscene comments, messages, ruler names, nation names, bios, or any other such offensive or harmful content."??? I'd like to see it.

Edit: For the record, I don't think the whole Mushqaeda thing is all that big of a deal, even though I can cite examples where MQ probably has crossed the line, I'm just a very difficult person to offend. If Roo's examples are to be believed (and I believe them due to my own experiences with MQ over time) then those are certainly examples where, imo, they clearly break the rules of the game, even though they don't personally offend me.

I don't think you have, which is why I don't have any issues with you guys playing the alliance theme. But, one needs to treat equal circumstances equally, claiming that MQ is awful and offensive while CCC is totally fine is a bit ridiculous. Both you and I are consistent here- he isn't.

I think the lines between offense and simple RP satire can often be drawn differently defending on how long ago and how extreme the theme was that you are trying to mimic.

A 1930's mafia theme could fly where a 1930's nazi one would sink.

Likewise this is why Zulu gets away with his drawing seamingly only humour as its based on events from the 1800's. Horrific events if they happened 10 years ago but 100 years + and its open for satire I think. Then again as I said it comes down to the severity of the theme you seek to wear. Something that encroached on say slavery no mater how old wouldn't fly.

The Nuclear Proliferation League of which I am part also moves into satire of questionable topics, no doubt survivors of Japan circa 1945 wouldn't find many of our jokes very funny. I can only hope its again, of an era long enough ago and of an event that doesn't cause too much legitimate offense. If it does I can only apologise.

The issue with MQ here is that they in truth cross the line of being a current theme of the current generation, with many players here being effected in their RL one way or another and also in severity with the theme being involved now in hundreds of thousands of deaths and maiming's across nearly every part of the world. Hell I had lunch last week with a man who had his leg blown off and girlfriend killed by an Al Qaeda affiliate, and then 10 minutes later I log onto CN to read MQ threads. Not even my family and I found it uncomfortable to have to read. I can only ask myself how I would feel if I had a closer connection to the theme.

Posting crap in your IRC channel is not a violation of the ToS because it occurs off site. For the record.

Posting crap in your IRC channel is not a violation of the ToS because it occurs off site. For the record.

This is actually untrue.

This is actually untrue.

Had any experience with this? :|

While I am eager to read Tamerlane's reply, here's my take on these sorts of things:

The IC/OOC boundary does, in fact, exist and should be remembered at all times. No matter how much time spent, or how passionate emotions fly, this is, in the end, just a game.

!= means not equals to

Mushlam != Islam

Black people in CN nations != black people IRL

It is not possible for any of these RP stunts to represent any IRL ethic/religious group simply because this is just a game, and it has no bearing on RL whatsoever.

Resemblance to RL simply reflects "art imitating life", which is also true in showbiz. Some would get offended, some won't. At worst, the Zulu and MQ themes represent laziness in trying to come out with something entirely new. In the end, it is just entertainment.

Had any experience with this? :|

I can not confirm nor deny.

I don't think the members of MK really understand or care about the difference between "satirize stereotypes about muslims" and "laught at Islam".

Well obviously every one will have their specific take and sensibility about this issue, but I think that those leading in the joke (case in point: Tamerlane) ought to have a specific and authoritative opinion on the matter. Which I am curious to hear.

As for satire in general, it's expected to offend someone, otherwise it wouldn't be satire in the first place. One may like it or not, but I personally think that satire has a positive overall effect over society and I am thus inclined to like it more than not (except when the target is the weak/oppressed, which anyway automatically makes it something else than satire, IMHO).

According to my personal experience (no real authority then) satire of religion usually targets either clergies, stereotypes or the literal/stupid interpretation of the "original" religious message, rather than and in opposition to the "genuine" popular religiousness.

Which is why I took it almost for granted that this Mushlim stuff couldn't possibly be against Islam at large, unless we consider all those engaging into it as complete idiots. Which last thing doesn't really seem a fair or even just a remotely realistic assumption.

I'm a muslim and I found those guys actually quite funny.
No really.

If Nazi theme is acceptable to community at large, not sure what the issue is here.

but it's mk

Gentle Persons

I just hope that those self same former MKers and and others who constantly post anti RP messages for me, because I always post IC are receiving the same level of grief for their "RP". While I too believe the 9/11 imagery crossed the line I must give credit to those who posted it and removed it when I asked nicely in a PM. As for the rest frankly I find it in poor taste but no more so than other "RP" and that is the point. We all too some extent RP as we are not leaders of a RL nation. If we can enliven the OWF with at least some small modicum of RP effort then I support it.

Hopefully those as, we RP, remember there are some boundries that should not be crossed and act with civility in a public forum.

Respectfully

Dame Hime Themis