A Neutral's Blog

Gentle Persons

I just hope that those self same former MKers and and others who constantly post anti RP messages for me, because I always post IC are receiving the same level of grief for their "RP". While I too believe the 9/11 imagery crossed the line I must give credit to those who posted it and removed it when I asked nicely in a PM. As for the rest frankly I find it in poor taste but no more so than other "RP" and that is the point. We all too some extent RP as we are not leaders of a RL nation. If we can enliven the OWF with at least some small modicum of RP effort then I support it.

Hopefully those as, we RP, remember there are some boundries that should not be crossed and act with civility in a public forum.

Respectfully

Dame Hime Themis

To be fair, you RP even in forums that are specifically NOT for RP. It is your inability to disconnect from your "personae" that most of us find laughable.

I don't think the members of MK really understand or care about the difference between "satirize stereotypes about muslims" and "laught at Islam".

every argument you've made is hypocritical so I'll assume this one is too

I fail to see how the Twin Tower thing satirizes anti-Muslim stereotypes. Some use the theme to satirize stereotypes, others not so much.

Honestly, the only people who are offended are either too dim to appreciate the satire, or simply dislike MK (and its remnants) and will always jump at the opportunity to criticize.

I think MQ's obvious parody of *political* Islam is hilarious. Almost as funny as CCC's over-the-top, obvious mockery of hillbilly christian fundamentalists.

This is actually untrue.

I dispute your claim of being untrue. Anything posted outside the confines of the CN Forums is the responsibility of the people who run the forums / channels and not the CN Staff. This has always been the case.

I dispute your claim of being untrue. Anything posted outside the confines of the CN Forums is the responsibility of the people who run the forums / channels and not the CN Staff. This has always been the case.

I'm telling you, you're wrong.

- The Moderation Staff

Firsthand experience.

I have to agree with Comrade Craig. The only real reason this is a problem is because, well, it's MK, and MK is horrible! (IMO, they aren't weren't that bad).

If Mushqaeda is bad, then Zulu, CCC, NPL, and Nordreich should also be scrutinized.

The Zulu armies of the early 19th century weren't satisfied with defeating armies. They would utterly destroy their enemies, such as killing innocent men, women, children, even pet dogs.

People have been killing people under the banner of Christianity for hundreds and hundreds of years. Often innocent peoples. The amount of deaths caused by the Crusades and the Inquisitions are a hell of a lot higher than the amount of deaths caused by Al-Qaeda.

NPL RP's a WMD capable of destroying thousands of people in an instant, and causing pain to the people who lived through the blast for a very long time. Not to mention all of the physical deformities and cancers caused by the radiation.

Although this isn't true, many people, when the hear the word Reich, the instantly think of Nazi Germany. Added with Nord, which anyone who knows any thing about Hitler's ideology was focused around the Nords being the master race, they might as well call themselves the Nazi alliance. We all know what happened during Nazi Germany's stay in the world.

tl;dr

Some other themes RP'd by alliances are a lot worse than the Al-Qaeda themed MQ.

-------- For clarification, I'm not trying to say Christianity is bad or evil or whatever adjective you can think of. I'm saying what people have done in the name of Christianity is bad. --------

To be fair, you RP even in forums that are specifically NOT for RP. It is your inability to disconnect from your "personae" that most of us find laughable.

Rush Sykes

It is your inability to understand that you are RPing all the time that I find laughable. Please feel free to post with your RL name, picture, address not a RP name and picture of Gordon Ramsey then I will buy your act .Untill then all your posts IC or OOC are fake. This is the point I was trying to make this is ALL RP. Even your laughable OCC posts are not RL they are your internet persona so spare us all the nonsense that some how you post differently IC and OOC. You and all of us post a fake ID even in the boiler room. Some of the people who post come across as more real others have a little bully persona that would not stand up to RL scrutiny. So enjoy the RP as none of us least of all you Rush leads a real life nation.I at least give credit to MQ and MK before them, they actually RP with fervour not my cup of tea but even the nonsense on their forums was over the top internet RP. The sad part is some of you (Rush) are so carried away with your internet self importance you seem to have trouble separating your internet face from the real one.

Dame Hime Themis

This is actually untrue.

The exception is the official CN channel, but otherwise, your behavior on other alliance channels is not regulated by CN. Now, it very well can be regulated by the channel owners, or even the server IRCops if it violates their ToS. But !@#$ you say outside of CN-owned channels (and which isn't direct harassment of CN staff) is not controlled by CN and you do not face retribution in CN for it (besides player-controlled, in-game retribution).

The exception is the official CN channel, but otherwise, your behavior on other alliance channels is not regulated by CN. Now, it very well can be regulated by the channel owners, or even the server IRCops if it violates their ToS. But !@#$ you say outside of CN-owned channels (and which isn't direct harassment of CN staff) is not controlled by CN and you do not face retribution in CN for it (besides player-controlled, in-game retribution).

I don't know how many times I can tell you, you're wrong before you simply accept it.

You will be banned if someone wishes to use it against you.

Hoping to stop the off-topic debate on the jurisdiction of the Mods: Myth is right in the sense that the CN staff reserved for themselves the right to warn or ban any player without notice for any reason or for no reason at all, thus they may warn (or, more probably, ban) anyone they in any way become convinced has acted in an unacceptable way, no matter where that happened and even if it really happened. It's obviously a very rare occurrence, also because the Mods have no duty to do anything for what happens outside of the game and the forums, but it isn't impossible.

It might sound harsh or wrong or whatever anyone want, but it's been written in the TOS since day one! Those that find it unacceptable can just stop playing the game.

Can we stay on the topic of the boundaries of acceptable RP now, please?

I don't know how many times I can tell you, you're wrong before you simply accept it.

You will be banned if someone wishes to use it against you.

First hand experience here (and I'm going to assume ours are probably similar): IYIyth is right.

One of the reasons I get along with so many former MK members is exactly the sense of humor the alliance has. It's the way I am IRL, it's the way I cope with things. Some people may take offense to an alliance making fun of/poking fun at radical elements of the religious or political world, in this case radical Islam and those who declare every adherent to Islam a terrorist.

The simple fact is, some people are bound to be offended by it, others will ignore it or laugh along with us. Different opinions make the world go 'round. If we all based opinions off what the "norm" is, we'd have to assume everybody who plays CN is, as the kids so lovingly say these days, "gay".

You say (not you, Jerdge, just a proverbial "you") that using our theme is offensive. Awesome, that's your opinion. I could see a way somebody could find The International's theme offensive; victims of Communism under Stalin far exceeded the numbers killed on 9/11, but the theme is okay because, as touched on above by somebody (I'm too lazy to scroll up), it's a "distant past" thing instead of a current event. Just about anything can be offensive if you examine it closely. That's what comedy is; a mockery of the absurd, or distortion of reality into something absurd to be mocked. A poorly-drawn cartoon of a Mario mushroom with wings flying toward towers made out of CN flags is, out of context, just lazy propaganda. Add the context of 9/11 and it's offensive. Not sure where i'm going right now, I sorta lost my thought. Damn.

NPO is a mockery of totalitarianism. The International makes many references to Communism. CCC might offend some radical Christians who do not believe their symbols should be used for something in a game (just an example, I don't really know of anybody who would do that). Hell, I take offense to CCC's name because I went to a community college for two years with the acronym CCC, and every time I see something CCC is doing, I have terrible flashbacks to long nights working two jobs, one of which was as a security officer on that campus wherein many, many of our students smoked sweet, sweet crystal meth. I'm 22 years old. I shouldn't know what meth smells like. It ruined marshmallows for me.

Offensive is a relative term. There are certainly lines that most agree upon. A rape themed alliance would probably be taken out of the game pretty quickly by moderation staff. A Nazi themed alliance (beyond Nor's realm) would see a similar demise. Mushqaeda remains because it is, by nature, absurd. We do not praise Allah in our posts, we do not call ourselves Muslims, we do not pretend to be actual Muslims. We could have chosen any faction as our "join it and war people if you're leaving the game and don't care" AA. The Southern Delegation? Offensive to some. Mushreich? Certainly offensive. Mushroom Kommune? Offensive to some. Mushqaeda was simply the most active faction at the time, and quite simply the easiest to satirize without people thinking we were serious. Southern Delegation posts would probably just have been racially-slanting, and I won't refute that some members of MK were (and some members of CN are) not exactly the most friendly to racial minorities because they're internet tough guys. Mushriech/Kommune are already done by other alliances. Mushqaeda is ridiculous, over the top, and fun to RP as. Archon himself doesn't really know how or when he became a religious figure in the alliance. It's sort of a running joke, much like when people in the IC areas say "Admin have mercy on your souls" and things of that nature. Nobody is actually saying Admin is literally God. Nobody in MQ is saying Archon is literally God, nor are we claiming to be or support RL terrorism. Other themes, while easy to mock and make ridiculous, would not have made quite the splash MQ did. The shock, the stunning "holy !@#$" value of Mushqaeda and some of our comments are what make it a wonderful choice to run our satire from. It's a taboo subject, something we don't talk or joke about. But if you look at the majority of popular comedians today, are their best jokes not their most shocking, offensive, and taboo comments?

Isn't it great people have such fundamental differences in opinion which actually causes interesting things to happen in CN?

This game would die if everyone had the same perspective.

Rush Sykes

It is your inability to understand that you are RPing all the time that I find laughable. Please feel free to post with your RL name, picture, address not a RP name and picture of Gordon Ramsey then I will buy your act .Untill then all your posts IC or OOC are fake. This is the point I was trying to make this is ALL RP. Even your laughable OCC posts are not RL they are your internet persona so spare us all the nonsense that some how you post differently IC and OOC. You and all of us post a fake ID even in the boiler room. Some of the people who post come across as more real others have a little bully persona that would not stand up to RL scrutiny. So enjoy the RP as none of us least of all you Rush leads a real life nation.I at least give credit to MQ and MK before them, they actually RP with fervour not my cup of tea but even the nonsense on their forums was over the top internet RP. The sad part is some of you (Rush) are so carried away with your internet self importance you seem to have trouble separating your internet face from the real one.

Dame Hime Themis

Devs make IC and OOC forums for a reason. Because you choose to make no distinction between the 2, does not make my point that you RP literally with every post you make, incorrect. As for my RL info... that really has 0 to do with it, and like with almost every RL analogy made in this game, is pretty silly.

Zulus ??????? Ubuntu is a single character not a representation of a group or race. Ubuntu is the crazy uneducated backwoods man that became a king of normal players. The other Zulu members do not act or talk like Ubuntu. Consider a crazy hillbilly type white man being the leader of an alliance of average players. Only the individual is the crazy. The group may follow but have none of his characteristics. Also it seems many miss Ubuntu's good characteristics. Ubuntu is loyal to a fault with his friends. His word is always good. He does not allow raiding. Members must get his permission to attack anyone. Zulu support the "Innocents". Fight for the right and good. We are against aggressors. We dislike Nazi types , jew haters, racists, and have attacked such players. Pride on our alliance and honor are very important to Ubuntu. Ubuntu may be crazy but he also has many good characteristics. Remember there can be a crazy foolish black man just as there can be a crazy foolish white man. He is an individual not a group stereotype. Also remember this is a game. A RP game. I also repeat that the Zulu has RL black member/s but it is up to you to guess if it is Ubuntu. In the end does it really matter? So it is written. So it shall be.

Isn't it great people have such fundamental differences in opinion which actually causes interesting things to happen in CN?

This game would die if everyone had the same perspective.

I'm actually really glad Jerdge posted this blog. For the most part, the discussion/argument is pretty decent. I hope my post didn't come off as too dickish. I was running on three days-no sleep, so if it looks like I'm directly insulting somebody, I probably didn't mean to. Probably.

Devs make IC and OOC forums for a reason. Because you choose to make no distinction between the 2, does not make my point that you RP literally with every post you make, incorrect. As for my RL info... that really has 0 to do with it, and like with almost every RL analogy made in this game, is pretty silly.

Rushie Boy

"Devs make IC and OOC forums for a reason" Really? Please enlighten us to their great value."almost every RL analogy made in this game, is pretty silly." May we assume then you are critical of MQ for using RL satire for their theme. That is not what you posts in their hreads seem to indicate.Actually you are obviously clueless Your name is a from a RL video game hero your nation name and capital from a RL book and movie and your avatar of a RL TV personality that would be meaningless without the RL context. Of course you are not very good at this as they are totally unrelated to each other.You really should work on that. People need to have the touch stone of RL to have this fantasy realm have reliable meaning.Why did you pick that avatar ? To RP his personna.

No you are wrong. hardly surprising given you track record. There are no real OOC forums. There are forums where we need not speak in our IC persona but that does not prevent you and others from hiding behind your internet personae. That is RP my fine lad. You who do not put even your age or location in your bio should fully understand that. All of this online environment is a little play. I have seen the bravado of 14 year olds in many online venues and adults pretending to be children. The internet is one great RP some(like you) just do not understand that anytime you do not put your name and face to a post it is a RP. The sad part is some of you have been playing in this realm so long you no longer can see it for what it is. I was saying that I appreciated the RP that MQ and MK do but was amused that you and others did not demean them as you do others who RP,. I simply enjoy posting in a RP style and am pleased it annoys little internet toughies like you. Enjoy the RP that others bring it is for us to enjoy so long as it is not deliberately offensive to a specific targeted group.

Toodles

<SNIP>

Chax, I must say that that is an amazing comment. Probably the best thing of your I ever read.

*applause*

For the most part, the discussion/argument is pretty decent.

You posted that an hour too early...

Rushie Boy

"Devs make IC and OOC forums for a reason" Really? Please enlighten us to their great value."almost every RL analogy made in this game, is pretty silly." May we assume then you are critical of MQ for using RL satire for their theme. That is not what you posts in their hreads seem to indicate.Actually you are obviously clueless Your name is a from a RL video game hero your nation name and capital from a RL book and movie and your avatar of a RL TV personality that would be meaningless without the RL context. Of course you are not very good at this as they are totally unrelated to each other.You really should work on that. People need to have the touch stone of RL to have this fantasy realm have reliable meaning.Why did you pick that avatar ? To RP his personna.

No you are wrong. hardly surprising given you track record. There are no real OOC forums. There are forums where we need not speak in our IC persona but that does not prevent you and others from hiding behind your internet personae. That is RP my fine lad. You who do not put even your age or location in your bio should fully understand that. All of this online environment is a little play. I have seen the bravado of 14 year olds in many online venues and adults pretending to be children. The internet is one great RP some(like you) just do not understand that anytime you do not put your name and face to a post it is a RP. The sad part is some of you have been playing in this realm so long you no longer can see it for what it is. I was saying that I appreciated the RP that MQ and MK do but was amused that you and others did not demean them as you do others who RP,. I simply enjoy posting in a RP style and am pleased it annoys little internet toughies like you. Enjoy the RP that others bring it is for us to enjoy so long as it is not deliberately offensive to a specific targeted group.

Toodles

This entire post brought a wry smile to my face.

You know why I picked a Gordon Ramsay avatar? Because I like Gordon Ramsay. Not to play his personae IC.. That has got to be the stupidest assertion I have ever had hurled at me. When have I yelled at anyone for overcooking pasta? undercooking pork? Oh yeah, never. THAT would be playing his personae. My avatar prior to Gordon was Gangplank (a champion from the game League of Legends) ... I certainly was not playing the personae of "yarr, im a mighty pirate." Nor asking people if they knew why me roger was so jolly. (LoL players will get this joke)... You literally just equated a forum avatar to an IC personae... absurd.

I know this will stun you, and turn your world upside down.... but.... sometimes an avatar is just an avatar...shhhh.. dont tell.

Chax, I must say that that is an amazing comment. Probably the best thing of your I ever read.

*applause*

I have my moments. They're rare and usually happen at 4am, but what can ya do?

You posted that an hour too early...

I'm a comment hipster. I posted before it was cool.

Rushie Boy

"Devs make IC and OOC forums for a reason" Really? Please enlighten us to their great value."almost every RL analogy made in this game, is pretty silly." May we assume then you are critical of MQ for using RL satire for their theme. That is not what you posts in their hreads seem to indicate.Actually you are obviously clueless Your name is a from a RL video game hero your nation name and capital from a RL book and movie and your avatar of a RL TV personality that would be meaningless without the RL context. Of course you are not very good at this as they are totally unrelated to each other.You really should work on that. People need to have the touch stone of RL to have this fantasy realm have reliable meaning.Why did you pick that avatar ? To RP his personna.

No you are wrong. hardly surprising given you track record. There are no real OOC forums. There are forums where we need not speak in our IC persona but that does not prevent you and others from hiding behind your internet personae. That is RP my fine lad. You who do not put even your age or location in your bio should fully understand that. All of this online environment is a little play. I have seen the bravado of 14 year olds in many online venues and adults pretending to be children. The internet is one great RP some(like you) just do not understand that anytime you do not put your name and face to a post it is a RP. The sad part is some of you have been playing in this realm so long you no longer can see it for what it is. I was saying that I appreciated the RP that MQ and MK do but was amused that you and others did not demean them as you do others who RP,. I simply enjoy posting in a RP style and am pleased it annoys little internet toughies like you. Enjoy the RP that others bring it is for us to enjoy so long as it is not deliberately offensive to a specific targeted group.

Toodles

You want it real with no RP then lets have at it. Stop spouting this crap about the IC postings. Unless your real name is Listener. You are not the leader of a Real Life nation. You do not even post your age on your own forums. I believe there should be a seperation of IC/OOC. So when you start posting on the OWF OOC forums with your real name and address I will listen to your lecture on the IC/OOC line. Until then your post is all a fine spout that you yourself do not subscribe to. I am not 15 I live in the real world. Just because public information is available does not mean it should be used . So since you are a big believer in the OOC posting feel free to release your age, address , phone # and age these are all public records. Until that time take your moral tone down a notch for you cannot live to your own standards.

Real enough for you lad.

HEE HEE HEE

Yo potatohead

I realize spouting gibberish without reading is your strong suit but really. I am arguing AGAINST OOC and FOR RP. So I am following my own standard doofus. I was complimenting MQ for their RP and was arguing it should only be IC on the forums.Because all of us are RPing an internet persona even in places like the Boiler room. The moral tone you brainwave was a support for RPing and the hypocrisy of people like Rushboy who claims he hates all RL analogies and links yet has chosen from RL literature or people a RL avatar, RL leader name< RL alliance name< RL Nation name, and RL Capital City.

Rushie Boy nice pick of avatar but if you think GR is only about yelling bad pasta you know nothing of the man..You play a cynical smart mouth and so does GR. The avatar as I pointed out would be meaningless without its RL connection and you know it.

I am waiting now Dear Rush for your critique of the terrible RP your buddies in MQ have done or the terrible RP of the Biodad by MK. What ?? No where did you post on those threads your grave concern about the RP?

Unreal enough for you both

Viva RP

Maybe I am not getting something, but I thought that RP was about having fun with "make believe" stuff that, while obviously linked with RL in some way (otherwise there would be no common ground to start from, and it would thus be incomprehensible to everyone), it's mostly imaginary, at least in the part that counts and that provides fun. And yes, everyone's imagination, even Shakespeare's, is rooted in reality, but that doesn't make it any less an imaginary thing.

I thought that OOC was talking of the RP stuff, but without pretension and without the acting effort. And I thought that RL was the (bigger) part has nothing to do with the RP.

And all of this would have its place in these forums, and such roles would be interconnected, but separated (otherwise, how could I even make any distinction at all?)

And then, sure, there's the fact that we always play a role and we don't tell all to everyone, in RL and in CN and everywhere, and we're not 100% "sincere" with anyone: full disclosure is impossible or at least (a lot) undesirable. Would a spouse share her husband's sexual preferences at the next meeting at the local church? If not, does that mean that she's "role playing"?

To quote Pirandello, each person is "uno, nessuno e centomila" (google it) and we know, at least since the times of the ancient Greeks, that we don't even know our own self that very well, but I am not sure that this means that "role playing" is universally a useful criterion to interpret what people do on the Internet.

Sometimes they don't just pretend that they're dicks or stupid, for instance...