Farkistan Declaration of War

[Darvel]

I'm not theorizing or guessing. I'm stating a fact. You really think Karma just appeared out of thin air?

Imagine a plan that can be summarised by the name it's publically given! Oh subterfuge!

[KingSuck]

my sig is going to become a lot more awesome

[Bob Sanders]

Of course not. Karma is built over time, by one's actions. You guys have been working on this one for years.

Ignoring what I am saying is very telling. The organization known as Karma was designed to destroy NPO and its allies and was actively participated in by Sparta for months before they left Q. That is an incontrovertible fact. You attempting to ignore my post by spouting propaganda isn't going to change that.

[Delta1212]

Ignoring what I am saying is very telling. The organization known as Karma was designed to destroy NPO and its allies and was actively participated in by Sparta for months before they left Q. That is an incontrovertible fact. You attempting to ignore my post by spouting propaganda isn't going to change that.

Then why didn't you kick them out of Continuum?

[Nobama]

my sig is going to become a lot more awesome

Updated war count is 220 wars for 120 nations.

Again, and I will reiterate this because you seem unable to understand: you're an afterthought. I know it seems bizarre and exciting for you to be in a war in which most of your members have two wars going on, but it's really decently common in real war. In fact, you're getting mediocre attention.

The people who are hitting you are busy with real alliances. Now go play with your forum games, the adults are busy discussing how best to bury your dead.

[Bob Sanders]

Then why didn't you kick them out of Continuum?

It wasn't my call.

[Kryievla]

Updated war count is 220 wars for 120 nations.

Again, and I will reiterate this because you seem unable to understand: you're an afterthought. I know it seems bizarre and exciting for you to be in a war in which most of your members have two wars going on, but it's really decently common in real war. In fact, you're getting mediocre attention.

The people who are hitting you are busy with real alliances. Now go play with your forum games, the adults are busy discussing how best to bury your dead.

We can do with being an afterthought. After all, we have you to give us plenty of attention

[Nobama]

Ignoring what I am saying is very telling. The organization known as Karma was designed to destroy NPO and its allies and was actively participated in by Sparta for months before they left Q. That is an incontrovertible fact. You attempting to ignore my post by spouting propaganda isn't going to change that.

You want the truth, Bob?

Sparta wasn't there at the outset, and you'll be wise to remember the first shots were fired by the NPO. I'm sure if anybody would be privy to such information before you, it would be Moo. And a small army of less erratic leaders.

Now if NPO is taking the risk of sparking hostilities while this was "going on" then what we have here is suicide by cop.

And frankly, if this was a massive conspiracy, !@#$@#$ nice work Karma. I underrated you all, and it's good to see the NPO and their lackeys such as Valhalla aren't the only ones plotting.

So you can keep insinuating and complain that Sparta (seriously? Sparta?) pulled this whole thing together through whispers in back rooms and winks and nods. To the rest of the world you'll still be a mentally unstable leader, and to me I'll quietly hope you're just a little bit right.

[Nobama]

We can do with being an afterthought. After all, we have you to give us plenty of attention

Somebody has to feed the strays, I suppose.

[Doitzel]

Ignoring what I am saying is very telling. The organization known as Karma was designed to destroy NPO and its allies and was actively participated in by Sparta for months before they left Q. That is an incontrovertible fact. You attempting to ignore my post by spouting propaganda isn't going to change that.

So let's assume that you've not taken one too many puffs of the peace pipe and this is, indeed, "incontrovertible fact". So what? Wars have never been planned months in advance before? How long did you and your buddies sit in back channels talking about taking down Polar? How long in advance do you think NPO participated in the architecture of the UJW?

Speaking of which, there's a good example of an impromptu coalition being assembled in a few days: ~. Sure, the bonds and friendships were there beforehand and they all knew the day would probably come, but the coalition had not assembled and was not a formal thing before war looked imminent. I'm willing to bet that's exactly what happened here (and bet a lot, because I know it's what happened here).

What it comes down to is you got out-manoeuvered and out-played and now you're looking for a reason -- any reason -- to cry foul play. Welcome to the consequences.

[Mentor]

Good luck guys! Not that you need it

[LJ Scott]

my sig is going to become a lot more awesome

It's a bit pathetic atm

Also welcome one, welcome all.

o7 FARK

[Meer Republic]

This thread has everything.

[ChairmanHal]

Imagine a plan that can be summarised by the name it's publically given! Oh subterfuge!

I don't remember seeing you in the meetings...the meeting where this dance was planned over the course of several months.

The name 'Karma' was developed within the last month or so. I know because we hadn't named it yet when I left Ragnarok.

Do you and your alliance a favor. Concentrate on your war screen and winning your fights, spend less time commenting on the AA part of the forums.

[CaptainImpavid]

Again your true colors are showing. And I have become quite familiar reading through so many threads with your idea of ethical standards, or lack thereof.

Wow it is like you made a game of pretending like the rest of my sentence that completely changes to context of what I said isn't there! ZOMG that is such a fun game!

What I said is that, for whatever the stated reason, which was clearly at best ambiguously worded and didn't take into account the fact that many of the readers wouldn't be accustomed to doing anything but taking things at face value, the fact remains that Farkistan came in through very legitimate and clearly delineated treaty obligations. Trying to claim it is illegitimate because of a turn of phrase that you quite simply just didn't comprehend correctly and turning into a moral issue is quite frankly ludicrous.

Also, if you're going to use quotes out of context, it helps not to have the rest of the sentence you're trying to skew the meaning of still in your post.

[ChairmanHal]

So let's assume that you've not taken one too many puffs of the peace pipe and this is, indeed, "incontrovertible fact". So what? Wars have never been planned months in advance before? How long did you and your buddies sit in back channels talking about taking down Polar? How long in advance do you think NPO participated in the architecture of the UJW?

Speaking of which, there's a good example of an impromptu coalition being assembled in a few days: ~. Sure, the bonds and friendships were there beforehand and they all knew the day would probably come, but the coalition had not assembled and was not a formal thing before war looked imminent. I'm willing to bet that's exactly what happened here (and bet a lot, because I know it's what happened here).

What it comes down to is you got out-manoeuvered and out-played and now you're looking for a reason -- any reason -- to cry foul play. Welcome to the consequences.

Let's see where you got something right:

1. Massive coalitions take months to assemble and wars on this scale take months to plan.

2. NPO was outmaneuvered is currently being outplayed. The score board shows it. Is that true across the the entirety of this war? Not so much.

Now let's see where you got it wrong:

1. That this was several months in the making is not a debatable subject. It was. Sorry you weren't allowed in the meetings. Actually no, I'm not sorry at all and neither were the other people present.

2. In the back channels of the UJP in late August and September 2007, the conversations revolved around *countering* Polaris, not taking the offensive, particularly in the weeks leading up to the war. We knew we were outnumbered, but felt like we had enough of a qualitative advantage that we could overcome those numbers. What we did not realize until the war started however was that some of the alliances we had counted on being with us, not only weren't, they would end up fighting for the other side.

3. Your analysis of ~ is flat wrong. The core alliances in ~ had been assembled many weeks in advance. If there was a "bandwagon" effect (let's just call it what it was), it was because of all the perceived and actual slights that some of the members of the UJP had perpetuated on a wide variety of alliances/nations over the course of the Initiative's life. That was true karma (not the current coalition), something by the way I've been consistent about pointing out since the war.

4. This world is shades of gray and always has been. The alliances that make up Karma are no heroes, free of any sort of guilt just as the alliances that stuck with NPO and their allies are not totally villains. There will moments of sacrifice, injustice, honor, cowardice, and a wide range of other behaviors exhibited across the battlefield. Some Karma members had outstanding treaties with NPO and did not live up to them. That is not subject to debate, it is fact. That they canceled them later demonstrated that they weren't completely without honor. The reasons given prior to the OV incident however made me laugh. I guess you could say that plotting your ally's demise in an IRC back channel is "growing apart".

It is also laughable that you continue to grandstand as though *you* are taking down NPO. Vox's single contribution to this affair was its silence on certain issues while it was planned. Vox didn't plan it, Vox isn't doing any of the heavy lifting required to carry it out successfully. Indeed, there are individual 50k NS nations in Ragnarok right now sitting in nuclear anarchy, down over a 1/3 of their infra, doing more to win this war on a daily basis than all of Vox combined.

My suggestion: I realize you'll never be anything be arrogant, but how about you try silent smugness? It might even get you off the hook for all the things you did in the past to give Karma alliances valid CBs against Vox someday.

[King Srqt]

Hal you know as well as anyone that the only reason any group of nations formed, whether it be the current Karma or any loose grouping of nations that could be interpreted to be an early form of Karma were there solely for the purpose of taking defensive actions against an aggresive act.

You know as well as anyone that in any meetings that took place months ago that it was expressly stated that no one there had an intent to start a war, that no one there had any desire to bring a fight to anyone and that there would only be a war if rumors that we heard were true about your side of this conflict seeking to start a war to cripple alliances that they saw as a threat.

When your alliance mates come in and say things like this I can chalk it up to paranoia and ignorance but when you imply that anyone was actively plotting to do anything other than defend themselves from an aggressive attack it is disingenuous at best and an outright lie at worst.

Edited April 29, 2009 by KingSrqt

[Uhtred]

That is an incontrovertible fact.

I don't think you know the meaning of that word.

Have fun, Fark.

[Drai]

You guys are going balls out this war.

[King Srqt]

The organization known as Karma was designed to destroy NPO and its allies and was actively participated in by Sparta for months before they left Q. That is an incontrovertible fact.

that is far from an incontrovertible fact and is in fact a blatant falsehood unless you consider having a plan to defend yourself and to only act if there is an unjustified aggressive act made "plotting to destroy you and your allies".

You have just been involved in groups that plot and scheme to take people down for so long that the thought that people weren't actually plotting and scheming to do anything and in fact were only planing defensive actions is inconceivable to you.

we aren't all like you and the sooner you realize that the better off you will be.

[Chairman Cao]

Good job Fark, Valhalla were getting it easy with 1 war per nation

[Delta1212]

I don't remember seeing you in the meetings...the meeting where this dance was planned over the course of several months.

The name 'Karma' was developed within the last month or so. I know because we hadn't named it yet when I left Ragnarok.

Do you and your alliance a favor. Concentrate on your war screen and winning your fights, spend less time commenting on the AA part of the forums.

The name Karma was thought up about sn hour before Archon made his post. I know because I suggested it.

Let's see where you got something right:

1. Massive coalitions take months to assemble and wars on this scale take months to plan.

2. NPO was outmaneuvered is currently being outplayed. The score board shows it. Is that true across the the entirety of this war? Not so much.

Now let's see where you got it wrong:

1. That this was several months in the making is not a debatable subject. It was. Sorry you weren't allowed in the meetings. Actually no, I'm not sorry at all and neither were the other people present.

2. In the back channels of the UJP in late August and September 2007, the conversations revolved around *countering* Polaris, not taking the offensive, particularly in the weeks leading up to the war. We knew we were outnumbered, but felt like we had enough of a qualitative advantage that we could overcome those numbers. What we did not realize until the war started however was that some of the alliances we had counted on being with us, not only weren't, they would end up fighting for the other side.

3. Your analysis of ~ is flat wrong. The core alliances in ~ had been assembled many weeks in advance. If there was a "bandwagon" effect (let's just call it what it was), it was because of all the perceived and actual slights that some of the members of the UJP had perpetuated on a wide variety of alliances/nations over the course of the Initiative's life. That was true karma (not the current coalition), something by the way I've been consistent about pointing out since the war.

4. This world is shades of gray and always has been. The alliances that make up Karma are no heroes, free of any sort of guilt just as the alliances that stuck with NPO and their allies are not totally villains. There will moments of sacrifice, injustice, honor, cowardice, and a wide range of other behaviors exhibited across the battlefield. Some Karma members had outstanding treaties with NPO and did not live up to them. That is not subject to debate, it is fact. That they canceled them later demonstrated that they weren't completely without honor. The reasons given prior to the OV incident however made me laugh. I guess you could say that plotting your ally's demise in an IRC back channel is "growing apart".

It is also laughable that you continue to grandstand as though *you* are taking down NPO. Vox's single contribution to this affair was its silence on certain issues while it was planned. Vox didn't plan it, Vox isn't doing any of the heavy lifting required to carry it out successfully. Indeed, there are individual 50k NS nations in Ragnarok right now sitting in nuclear anarchy, down over a 1/3 of their infra, doing more to win this war on a daily basis than all of Vox combined.

My suggestion: I realize you'll never be anything be arrogant, but how about you try silent smugness? It might even get you off the hook for all the things you did in the past to give Karma alliances valid CBs against Vox someday.

1. For all the knowledge you were privy to before leaving, you consistently make hilarious mistakes. You want to know when the core of Karma was assembled? Friday after the Hegemony dropped into peace mode. Sure, most of us new each other andhad various relationships of varying levels, but we weren't anything remotely like a coalition. You know when we started planning out the actual war? Tuesday after NPO attacked. Most of us actually did think we'd reach a compromise with those peace talks.

4. " I guess you could say that plotting your ally's demise in an IRC back channel is "growing apart". " Well, that's what the Hegemony side seems to have thought it meant the whole time they were in charge.

As for your parting suggestion. I suggest you look in the mirror, because at least Doitzel knows he's arrogant and smug. You're still struggling under the delusion that you're misunderstood.

Edited April 29, 2009 by Delta1212

[Doitzel]

Man, I remember the days when I was the only one who didn't think Hal was a stand-up guy. Now I don't even have to respond for all the people rushing through the door to beat him with a saucepan.

Look, I'm getting all teary-eyed.

[New Frontier]

Man, I remember the days when I was the only one who didn't think Hal was a stand-up guy. Now I don't even have to respond for all the people rushing through the door to beat him with a saucepan.

Look, I'm getting all teary-eyed.

I can only imagine how unbearable these forums would be if you had the same sort of delusions about your level of humility that he does.

[Narcicyst]

Yay!

More Targets!

* Raydin Polishes his Nukes..