A Petition to the Community at Large: Regarding PZI

[Yonsae]

i have sent privet message

[Neo Uruk]

I'll give you a hint: the last few words rhyme "Contributes nothing positive" and the sentence starts with "Does a lot of stupid shit"

[Yonsae]

I'll give you a hint: the last few words rhyme "Contributes nothing positive" and the sentence starts with "Does a lot of stupid !@#$"

 

do not understand and translator is not helping

 

i think understand you can not want someone stop playing cause they cannot contribute positive. if he disabled that is not fault of his and he is born that way. that is wrong to want to hurt people who can not be productive.

Edited August 6, 2014 by Yonsae

[Yonsae]

talk pm i try to help you with situations

[jerdge]

I am 99.9% in agreement that OOC issues should not be a reason to attack someone in-game.  However, when people disgustingly bring OOC issues into the game (Biodad, Rotavele yesterday, etc.), I think the game needs to respond with it's own mechanics.
 
So my stance:  
 
Finding out someone likes something you don't IRL or vice versa and then using that as a CB is !@#$%^&*.  Also attacking people OOC due to in-game personas is also retarded (like what happened to AvT, that still pisses me off)
 
Parading around the game talking smack about serious OOC issues and using them to taunt people can and should be cause for attack 
 
I don't even care if that's hypocritical :/

I respect your stance and it doesn't look hypocritical to me, however as you pointed out the Biodad affair was analogous to this one but at the time absolutely nothing happened in the game. I doubt that anyone that thinks that an attack was deserved (for the record: I don't) also seriously thinks that it was not performed for reasons unrelated with MK's in-game firepower or with the desire not to damage someone's in-game plans. In-game attacks only when not inconvenient seems really a poor way to police RL-based attacks.

 

Also let's face it: voicing one's RL dissent with Biodad was possible for any player but almost no one cared or bothered to, because most of the people that knew just looked the other way, and many of those that got interested are actually retards that like that kind of stuff. This ad hominem initiative is going differently only because of the lack of in-game support of the offender, which is another sign that mob lynchings are far from providing any real justice, fairness or accountability.

[Neo Uruk]

Jerdge can you not latch onto one facet of this in an attempt to downplay how much Rotavele really, really deserves this?

[jerdge]

Jerdge can you not latch onto one facet of this in an attempt to downplay how much Rotavele really, really deserves this?

I care only for the RL side of this. Any other consideration based on in-game politics or events isn't any of my business and IC-ly I am neutral on it.

 

(At most I can share my OOC surprise at "he's a rogue" being that big of a deal and PZI-worthy, like this was 2007 all over again, but it would just be a casual and mostly uninterested OOC observation: for what I care anyone can PZI anyone for any in-game reasons and I won't get really involved, if it's not about me or someone in my alliance - that's what I signed up to when I decided to be neutral.)

Edited August 6, 2014 by jerdge

[Neo Uruk]

I care only for the RL side of this. Any other consideration based on in-game politics or events isn't any of my business and IC-ly I am neutral on it.
 
(At most I can share my OOC surprise at "he's a rogue" being that big of a deal and PZI-worthy, like this was 2007 all over again, but it would just be a casual and mostly uninterested OOC observation: for what I care anyone can PZI anyone for any in-game reasons and I won't get really involved, if it's not about me or someone in my alliance - that's what I signed up to when I decided to be neutral.)

Good, the RL side of it is not as big as you and others are making it. Yes, what he did was wrong, but it is only a part of the "repeat offender" bit of things.

If he were simply a rogue every now and then, fine. But when you can't even broker a serious peace deal with him without someone else stepping in and paying for him, that's frustrating. It's also frustrating to deal with some new antic every month -- and often, he gets some poor new guy involved and ruins his early game experience, some of which will never learn better after the initial run. I know, I know, how hypocritical of a lifetime raider to say something about ruining a new nation's experience, but the fact of the matter is that I usually offer protection to those that I raid, especially those that are in a treaty-less alliance.

All in all, Rotavele has made my Cybernations experience that much damper (and I'm very much aware that me publicly admitting this probably has him cackling like a madman -- I'll just note that I'm not mad at him as a person as he probably wishes I was, and he's not going to ever grief me out; he's just been a pain in the ass to deal with) and it's about time we put some sunshine in this place. As stated in the OP, if Rotavele re-rolls and truly takes on a new persona (ie, he doesn't $%&@ up my !@#$ all the time and doesn't do his poor gimmick) I'll leave it at that and never say a word about a ZI sentence to him again. But I and my sphere of people have had more than enough of every aspect of his shenanigans.

e: and as you made the point about the Biodad affair earlier -- do you not think that EQ and people attacking Mushqaeda was influenced by some of the OOC stunts pulled by MK as well as their dominance and plotting in-game? Edited August 6, 2014 by Neo Uruk

[Yonsae]

Good, the RL side of it is not as big as you and others are making it. Yes, what he did was wrong, but it is only a part of the "repeat offender" bit of things.

If he were simply a rogue every now and then, fine. But when you can't even broker a serious peace deal with him without someone else stepping in and paying for him, that's frustrating. It's also frustrating to deal with some new antic every month -- and often, he gets some poor new guy involved and ruins his early game experience, some of which will never learn better after the initial run. I know, I know, how hypocritical of a lifetime raider to say something about ruining a new nation's experience, but the fact of the matter is that I usually offer protection to those that I raid, especially those that are in a treaty-less alliance.

All in all, Rotavele has made my Cybernations experience that much damper (and I'm very much aware that me publicly admitting this probably has him cackling like a madman -- I'll just note that I'm not mad at him as a person as he probably wishes I was, and he's not going to ever grief me out; he's just been a pain in the ass to deal with) and it's about time we put some sunshine in this place. As stated in the OP, if Rotavele re-rolls and truly takes on a new persona (ie, he doesn't $%&@ up my !@#$ all the time and doesn't do his poor gimmick) I'll leave it at that and never say a word about a ZI sentence to him again. But I and my sphere of people have had more than enough of every aspect of his shenanigans.

 

 

if what you say true why not handle then? then after that drop it. he is say this is ooc not ic. mean why do you use this ic when other stuff is already handle

[Neo Uruk]

if what you say true why not handle then? then after that drop it. he is say this is ooc not ic. mean why do you use this ic when other stuff is already handle

This is the process by which it will be handled.

[Freelancer]

I won't get really involved, if it's not about me or someone in my alliance - that's what I signed up to when I decided to be neutral.)

Neutrality that myth propagated by those with thin conviction and even a weaker constitution. God's work is being done here and at this point consider me Gabriel.

Countless visits to reeducation center's have have failed, psychotherapy FAILED, face reality this is a broken machine that's full of bad code and what happens to those ? They get wiped out, and clean install is then preformed.

OOC Be thankful this isn't 2006, I would have already broken into the network and set that in motion for them, I've grown since then :P Edited August 6, 2014 by Freelancer

[jerdge]

e: and as you made the point about the Biodad affair earlier -- do you not think that EQ and people attacking Mushqaeda was influenced by some of the OOC stunts pulled by MK as well as their dominance and plotting in-game?

Some cited that but it may have been just propaganda or wishful thinking. While I don't have hard evidence pointing either way, not everyone that incited the Biodad situation was hit and not everyone that was hit had incited the Biodad situation, thus in the end the anti-Mushqaeda operations can't really qualify as any anti- RL-offences in-game insurgence, not even a very late one. The grievances were many and from many sides and a lot of them were OOC-legit* IC ones.

 

* Meaning that, from the point of view of an Out Of Character observer, they looked like In Character grievances that made sense and that were coherent with the IC history that had preceded and that had originated them, thus they were naturally fitting for a simulation game. A good and entertaining story, if you will. I don't instead mean that they were legitimate (or illegitimate) from my IC point of view, which was of neutral interest with no horse in the race.

 

 

Neutrality that myth propagated by those with thin conviction and even a weaker constitution. God's working is being done here and at this point consider me Gabriel.

Countless visits to reeducation center's have have failed, psychotherapy FAILED, face reality this is a broken machine that's full of bad code and what happens to those ? They get wiped out, and clean install is then preformed.

OOC Be thankful this isn't 2006, I would have already broken into the network and set that in motion for them, I've grown since then :P

I won't comment on the IC part of your post (it would just be a verbose variation of the standard "neutrals don't outsource their constitution, though" argument), but I'll just say that you should post more often, Gabriel. You're one of those that stand out when they talk.

Edited August 6, 2014 by jerdge

[Rayvon]

I respect your stance and it doesn't look hypocritical to me, however as you pointed out the Biodad affair was analogous to this one but at the time absolutely nothing happened in the game. I doubt that anyone that thinks that an attack was deserved (for the record: I don't) also seriously thinks that it was not performed for reasons unrelated with MK's in-game firepower or with the desire not to damage someone's in-game plans. In-game attacks only when not inconvenient seems really a poor way to police RL-based attacks.

 

Also let's face it: voicing one's RL dissent with Biodad was possible for any player but almost no one cared or bothered to, because most of the people that knew just looked the other way, and many of those that got interested are actually retards that like that kind of stuff. This ad hominem initiative is going differently only because of the lack of in-game support of the offender, which is another sign that mob lynchings are far from providing any real justice, fairness or accountability.

 

This has a strong scent of the apathy that people associate with IC-neutralism ...

 

Ok - so we didn't do anything as a community about Biodad ...... And other such incidences .... So, we'll just keep rolling over/turning the other cheek/forgive and forget for everyone who crosses over the boundry ... No point in setting any limits in the future because we haven't in the past ... 

 

We've gotta come together as a community and put an end to all this shit, to prevent future Biodad-like scenarios ... Otherwise we're giving them [whomever wishes to perpetrate] a free pass to do as they wish ..

 

Since so many wish to allow such a gray area in IC/OOC, we must draw a line in the sand. And we must maintain it. We are our own guards.

[jerdge]

This has a strong scent of the apathy that people associate with IC-neutralism ...

 

Ok - so we didn't do anything as a community about Biodad ...... And other such incidences .... So, we'll just keep rolling over/turning the other cheek/forgive and forget for everyone who crosses over the boundry ... No point in setting any limits in the future because we haven't in the past ... 

 

We've gotta come together as a community and put an end to all this !@#$, to prevent future Biodad-like scenarios ... Otherwise we're giving them [whomever wishes to perpetrate] a free pass to do as they wish ..

 

Since so many wish to allow such a gray area in IC/OOC, we must draw a line in the sand. And we must maintain it. We are our own guards.

I don't object to drawing a line in the sand, I object to drawing it in the game. If an offence happens in RL keep it there, that's all I am asking for.

I was saying the same for Biodad and for any single instance before and after that. Blimey, I remember having entertained the same thoughts back in the days of the nasty incidents in #gpa in... Wasn't it late 2007? (I am too old to remember stuff anymore. BTW your avatar is lovely. :D)

[Yonsae]

 

This has a strong scent of the apathy that people associate with IC-neutralism ...

 

Ok - so we didn't do anything as a community about Biodad ...... And other such incidences .... So, we'll just keep rolling over/turning the other cheek/forgive and forget for everyone who crosses over the boundry ... No point in setting any limits in the future because we haven't in the past ... 

 

We've gotta come together as a community and put an end to all this !@#$, to prevent future Biodad-like scenarios ... Otherwise we're giving them [whomever wishes to perpetrate] a free pass to do as they wish ..

 

Since so many wish to allow such a gray area in IC/OOC, we must draw a line in the sand. And we must maintain it. We are our own guards.

 

it is good to see progress made in our time even if it from horrible circumstance. we learn history to not repeat it!

Edited August 6, 2014 by Yonsae

[Helbrecht]

Dislike as much as I do Rota's recent transgression of the boundary, i will say this.

 

That your proposal garners so much support at this time, is not due to Rota's actions as a serial rogue, or his inane and moronic posting on the owf. This support that we see here, is mostly due to the horrific breach of the OOC line. You, are aware of this. You take this opportunity (in a purely IC manner i am sure) to eliminate someone whom you have decided is your enemy. So yes, have no doubt about it, friend jerdge is correct in his assertion. It might be IC for a few, maybe even a lot, to get rid of a nation that is a pest or just irritating (hey there is no limit on what can be an IC CB) however, this thread is an attempt to achieve IC goals by capitalizing on OOC disgust that the player base feels right now about the person.

 

Ask the ruler of Kindred Nation or Sepritists, not the player behind the ruler. Ask me, not the player behind me.

[Il Impero Romano]

Warranted? Yes. Absolutely.

 

However, its a slippery slope that is almost certainly not worth the precedent it sets.

Edited August 6, 2014 by Il Impero Romano

[Rayvon]

Ask the ruler of Kindred Nation or Sepritists, not the player behind the ruler. Ask me, not the player behind me.

Incidences like this, and like the past, they serve nothing to foster an environment for Rayvon of Kindred Nation; this is the issue I allude to in the "accepted" deep gray of IC/OOC.\

this thread is an attempt to achieve IC goals by capitalizing on OOC disgust that the player base feels right now about the person

And to revisit this again from page 1 and other pages, is exactly why the thread should have been made by someone other than Rey [and there were other people working to make it, Rey just got his up first] -- if it had of been one of the other parties who didn't have such a strong rivalry crossing both borders with Rota then no one would be accusing the OP of that ... But the support for the notion against Rota and his multitude of transgressions coupled with his attitude towards them [especially over the past couple days] that shows he WILL repeat again. If we, as a community, let him.

[Hecate]

 This thread is concerning the player itself. It is an OOC matter and the thread itself has alternated between OOC and IC. This will remain in Open World Forum. Any further questions can be directed to my inbox.

[Franz Ferdinand]

This thread is concerning the player itself. It is an OOC matter and the thread itself has alternated between OOC and IC. This will remain in Open World Forum. Any further questions can be directed to my inbox.

No complaints here, this thread always had the feel of the Open World RP section rather than World Affairs.

[the rebel]

OOC attacks are a moderation issue and its the mods who keep it under control. So there is no slippery slope on "ignoring it" in IC, just report it and carry on your merry way.

I've seen worse stuff here than the poor choice in the bait "NG gov get shot in real life" line which was used.

OOC are either all bad or not and some of the people witch hunting in one but cheering on in another. Is just as disgraceful as the comment he made.

[Neo Uruk]

That your proposal garners so much support at this time, is not due to Rota's actions as a serial rogue,

Gonna have to stop you there chief and say that of course some people who've cheered Rota's roguery on wouldn't be too pleased with this sentence coming down if it was solely that. However, there's a line you clearly don't cross -- and yes, I do realize who I am. I have argued in favor of or even said things you would all consider vile, I'm sure... in situations that weren't black and white. However, this was a clear and direct act that was committed with no remorse. I've told several people I'm sorry. Ask RIA if they think I'm the same person I was even two years ago. Ask R&R.

As I said, it is not all about the OOC content. That is a part of the reasoning. It is, though, the nastiest bit. Rotavele has remained unchanged, unpolished, and unapologetic. He has done these things on a lesser scale before, only to run and hide behind someone and lie through his teeth about what took place. His $%&@ery has known no bounds, so we're going to draw the playing field for him, and then erase it. Edited August 6, 2014 by Neo Uruk

[Alexio15]

Not general a big fan of PZI and EZI but in this case I am all for it. The comments where fucking disgraceful and personally stupid. Not to mention the lack of remorse that is bein. Shown by rotavele.

Also SaS now I thought you guys was stupid with the SoD treaty but this is just well... I have no words to explain the level of stupidity you have shown here. I hope your dumbass move is worth it.

Also excuse spellings and grammar errors I am on a iPod so hard to sort it out.

[Neo Uruk]

Not general a big fan of PZI and EZI but in this case I am all for it. The comments where !@#$@#$ disgraceful and personally stupid. Not to mention the lack of remorse that is bein. Shown by rotavele.

Also SaS now I thought you guys was stupid with the SoD treaty but this is just well... I have no words to explain the level of stupidity you have shown here. I hope your dumbass move is worth it.

Also excuse spellings and grammar errors I am on a iPod so hard to sort it out.

SAS has booted Rotavele. Rotavele is now being laughed the hell out of FAN because he thinks I'm going around kicking in every door he shows up at (I'm friendy with a couple FAN diplos; I know how to put my business hat on) Edited August 6, 2014 by Neo Uruk

[Mcclaud]

I've seen something about 'biodad' mentioned a few times. Would anyone be willing to clarify what that was about as I don't usually demonstrate much interest in visiting the OWF, as much as I have lately. If it's a touchy subject nobody wishes to bring up, that's fine. If anyone wants to as a PM, that's also fine.