To: Anyone who cares. From: The Brain

[Jocabia]

Oh, this is all in jest.

Edited March 10, 2011 by Jocabia

[Buds The Man]

[quote name='Xiao Weng' timestamp='1299772812' post='2658550']
Ah, yes. The private channels that are curr-

Wait, [i]you[/i] aren't CSN. How silly of me.

Let me then say that I'm very sorry we couldn't be the patsy you wanted us to be. I'll also take this to mean that Chestnut is going to make an announcement very soon evicting us from Maroon? Or did I just let another cat out of the bag?

That should be a hoot.

The Commonwealth I [s]know[/s] knew would've been amused by the joke. Perhaps it's undue influence from another source that's firmly lodged the stick. They are, after all, always welcome on our forums and I hold no personal ill will.

However, I'll be damned if I'm not going to have some fun with this.
[/quote]
Hmm that sounds a bit out of charecter for maroon. The only time removal was ever spoken of in the past while i was there was NoV. If it happens to be true then maroon has lost the spirit that SPAM and CA had in its early stages.

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1299774469' post='2658571']
Honestly, I really doubt any of the other eleven spheres would object to The Brain moving over.

And, yeah, this is how Maroon has worked for quite some time. Cora's right. Although the specific circumstances of the Chestnut-USN drama during Karma and the Brain-CSN drama of recent times are different, the basic essence is the same: do what Xiph says or get out of CA.
[/quote]
Haf USN did as much to put themselves in that posistion as any other on Maroon.

[quote name='James Dahl' timestamp='1299774897' post='2658579']
Maroon isn't in the business of kicking people off spheres, guys.
[/quote]
God i hope your right it would be a disapointment if things had changed that MUCH.

[quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1299775174' post='2658583']
I believe our two alliances existed quite happily on the same sphere together, even trading amongst each other, all while wanting to rip each others' throats out for a couple of years.

You know, I changed my mind. Anyone can come here but Xiphosis. Deal?
[/quote]
Even Valhalla

[Penkala]

[quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1299764657' post='2658464']
While I'll grant that this thread was, perhaps, a bit more snarky than necessary, it certainly does seem that lately, Xiphosis has done quite a bit of talking on behalf of alliances he is not a member of. Perhaps Xiph has been picked as the unofficial spokesperson for his little corner of the web, and folks are playing the RAWR XIPHOSIS game a bit too freely. On the other hand, maybe Xiphosis is getting a bit big for his britches, and the elements this has directly effected don't particularly appreciate his particular brand of WINNING.
[/quote]

Hi. You must be new to politics! Allow me to explain: SF is a very tightly-knit bloc. That means that they often interact with each other in all facets of international diplomacy -- including signing and canceling treaties. Whenever there is a decision made, you can be assured that SF as a whole was involved to some degree -- they were, at the very least, notified. SF is a MDAP suicide bloc, and the members are quite close. I know you're shocked that others may stand by CSN's side as CSN makes significant changes to its foreign policy, especially when CSN's Head of State is extremely busy with work. Given the experience you had with your "bloc", deep friendships between signatories may be a foreign concept to you. But I can assure you, Xiphosis is not running CSN.

Just because Xiphosis gives advice does not make him the leader of CSN.

[quote]A gov't member of GOD Referred to CSN as "US" insinuating he was CSN.[/quote]

Ever think that the "us" may be SuperFriends? You know, that treaty that essentially ties GOD and CSN together?

Edited March 10, 2011 by Penkala

[Judge X]

[quote name='Penkala' timestamp='1299778814' post='2658677']
Hi. You must be new to politics! Allow me to explain: SF is a very tightly-knit bloc. That means that they often interact with each other in all facets of international diplomacy -- including signing and canceling treaties. Whenever there is a decision made, you can be assured that SF as a whole was involved to some degree -- they were, at the very least, notified. SF is a MDAP suicide bloc, and the members are quite close. I know you're shocked that others may stand by CSN's side as CSN makes significant changes to its foreign policy, especially when CSN's Head of State is extremely busy with work. Given the experience you had with your "bloc", deep friendships between signatories may be a foreign concept to you. But I can assure you, Xiphosis is not running CSN.

Just because Xiphosis gives advice does not make him the leader of CSN.



Ever think that the "us" may be SuperFriends? You know, that treaty that essentially ties GOD and CSN together?
[/quote]
I'm guessing you did know about this before you posted. Tightly knit you say?

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=99665

Edited March 10, 2011 by Judge X

[General Ozujsko]

Great, funny read. Props for Walter and the Mooninites.

Best of luck.

[Penkala]

[quote name='Judge X' timestamp='1299779440' post='2658695']
I'm guessing you did know about this before you posted. Tightly knit you say?

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=99665
[/quote]

Seeing as I commented there before I commented here, yes, I knew about that.

Off the top of my head...

What is it, 8 signatories in 4 years? Only 2 alliances ever leaving the bloc? 2 other alliances who disbanded choosing to merge their members back into another bloc member rather than into anyone else? One of the 2 alliances to leave the bloc maintaining MDoAPs with each bloc member?

I'd say that's pretty tightly knit. In fact, I challenge you to find me any bloc that's stood the test of time better.

Hint: You can't.

And yes, I admit this may be a biased perspective. After all, I consider SF the greatest treaty ever. (We'll see how PB does after it's been here for some time, but we have a lot of potential as well.)

Edited March 10, 2011 by Penkala

[SpacingOutMan]

I'm not sure what to really make of this. While I admit the announcement to be amusing, I find the content to be wanting. You are still unaware about why CSN dropped The Brain? Surely you jest, because it is quite apparent. It seems that your restraint knows no bounds as you find the need to throw in pot shot after pot shot against the Commonwealth and I have grown quite sick of it.

[quote]01[00:25] <Gibsonator21[CSN|MoI]> hey, whats the hold up?
[00:26] <SamFisher202> Internal Brain stuff, sadly some important evidence is being presented to me, and I'm reconsidering the brain's role in this war.
01[00:27] <Gibsonator21[CSN|MoI]> seriously?
01[00:27] <Gibsonator21[CSN|MoI]> the stuff RV posted?
[00:28] <SamFisher202> It's from a private source, once I get it, I'll review it, and see what to do next.
01[00:28] <Gibsonator21[CSN|MoI]> so youre not declaring war?
[00:29] <SamFisher202> At this time, until my source explains everything in detail to me, I'll have to keep things on hold.
[00:30] <SamFisher202> If the CNS overrule me on thus that is up to them.
[00:30] <SamFisher202> this*
01[00:30] <Gibsonator21[CSN|MoI]> CSN you mean?
01[00:30] <Gibsonator21[CSN|MoI]> or is there something in your alliance called CNS
[00:30] <SamFisher202> No, the CNS, our highest government,
01[00:30] <Gibsonator21[CSN|MoI]> oh
01[00:30] <Gibsonator21[CSN|MoI]> ok
01[00:30] <Gibsonator21[CSN|MoI]> well, it'd be great if you could do it.. remember, this is a game and war is the fun part
[00:31] <SamFisher202>
01[00:31] <Gibsonator21[CSN|MoI]> not kidding
01[00:31] <Gibsonator21[CSN|MoI]> im itching for this, really waiting 4 months to his them
Session Close: Sat Jan 22 04:38:52 2011[/quote]

Thirty-give minutes before the war against LoSS you inform us that you are backing out of the war. That's right, [b]thirty-five minutes before update[/b] Gibsonator21 had to approach [b]you[/b] about what the hold up was. It would have been entirely different if you all had approached us prior to the update and explained to us this new revelation, but that did not happen. We had to approach you to find out that something "big" happened internally. But I digress, we got over this as you did, indeed, eventually enter the war.

While hindsight gives us the pleasure of convenience, [b]you left us out to dry[/b] at update, both militarily [i]and[/i] politically. But then we progress further through the war, where you engage in peace talks, and have the gall and audacity to mock your supposed "close allies" to our opponents? I'm glad that we were the topic of the jokes that day, truly. Moreover, Xiphosis gave you the reasoning of the cancellation? I wasn't aware that Xiphosis' name was SpacingOutMan (when I was the one who sent the cancellation message) and I wasn't aware that my posts in the other thread don't count (along with Goose's, Liz's, etc.).

We have had various communication gaffs and problems in the past too (notably with Freelancer). This isn't new news; this has been a problem lingering for a long time now. I will be the first to admit that CSN is at part to blame for some of the communication problems. Be that as it may, the communication problems were still there, and this is (more or less) the straw that broke the camels back between CSN and The Brain. Leaving the Chestnut Accords is your prerogative and your own sovereign decision. All I will add is that [b]you were already discussing canceling the treaty with CSN[/b] (according to Sam) prior to you being told we were canceling the treaty. Why you act like you've been dealt a grave injustice here is beyond me.

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1299774469' post='2658571']
And, yeah, this is how Maroon has worked for quite some time. Cora's right. Although the specific circumstances of the Chestnut-USN drama during Karma and the Brain-CSN drama of recent times are different, the basic essence is the same: do what Xiph says or get out of CA.
[/quote]

Your ignorance on the subject is rather astounding regarding the CSN-USN drama. When USN brought UPN in reconciliation discussions that were supposed to be between USN and CSN, was blatantly belligerent in response to CSN's FA policy at the time, tried to demand that certain CSN government officials be forcibly removed because they were making decisions USN did not approve of, argued that is was their way or the highway (when they were choosing CDT over Maroon), and essentially told everyone on Maroon to shove off... yea, no, clearly you have no idea what you are talking about.

And for the record: I was actually trying to salvage the CSN-USN MADP at the time, to much my government's chagrin... even after Cora tried to get The Black Watch (our Head of State at the time) to fire me, even after I received flak from Cora because I initiated the cancellation process with a Treaty of Amity we held with UPN, and was called out constantly solely because I had made a gaff (and apologized for it)...

You do The Brain a great injustice to compare it to USN, even after this quasi-drama. The CSN-The Brain situation now is a thousand times more bearable than the USN fiasco.
[hr]

Good luck with your endeavors The Brain. It's not even like Chestnut is that active [i]anyways[/i].

[Goose]

Are you kidding me? You sign a peace agreement without speaking to anyone on the same front as you. We find out about said peace agreement via your IRC topic. In said peace agreement you mock us, your longtime ally that has stood by you through some of your stupidest/snarkiest OWF shenanigans. You never tell us you are tired of war, you never tell us you have a problem with the terms we're offering, you never tell us !@#$, and somehow it's our fault for not stopping by your rest home to check in on you every day. On top of that, you accuse us of planning to get you removed from CA. As far as I know, there were no such plans. I know I had no plans to do so. If you have any proof of such, please do provide it.

As to your claims we're trying to force you from Maroon, please stop. There's no basis for that argument at all. Hell, we dislike USN far more than this little hiccup with you guys has irked us, and USN are still on Maroon. We didn't even force USN out of CA after they were on opposing sides in a war. You're accusations are ludicrous. If anyone from The Brain would care to speak with me, you know how to get in touch, otherwise, I guess just take your ball and go home as it seems you're intent on doing.

[Xiao Weng]

[quote name='Jocabia' timestamp='1299777813' post='2658655']
First, I love that you just completely made up the idea that you preempted an attempt to boot you from the CA. It may or may not be true, but you have no evidence it is, yet you imply in several posts that you do. The decision to leave was your decision.
[/quote]

Considering CA's own cancellation clause leads to an assumption that 'things will be worked out', color us surprised when our forum masks were removed. Said removal of masks prompted the Mooninites. Said Mooninites engender responses from your allies that suggest that because we didn't play specifically to your tune, we're the antithesis of what you want on Maroon.

Oh hey, that rhymed.

I do like the hedging on 'may or may not be true', though. That's classy right there.
[quote]
Second, it's been implied that your alliance is being booted from Maroon. No one has ever even suggested that you should leave, let alone that you're required to leave.
[/quote]

The consensus seems to be that we're not wanted on Maroon. Given the size of our alliance compared to the rest of the bloc, I'm expecting war to be declared any day now. Such is the price of 40,000 fresh tehcno beats.

[quote]
Third, are you unaware of where our forum lies? Last I checked the link to our forum was available to everyone, publicly. Somehow a representative of LoSS made it there, so I'm pretty sure it's possible for our oh-so-good friends to find it, no? I seem to have missed all the threads where you tried ever so hard to communicate with us. I'll say that I'm among those in CSN who openly questioned our handling of the treaty with you, but I must say I like your handling of it less. You and I have had our issues, but I hold the majority of The Brain in high regard. I knew little of this drama until you made it public, but I also know enough about it to know that you had other venues that would have been better suited to the discussions you claim to want.
[/quote]

By the time the forum communication thing would've come around, our treaty was cancelled after retroactive notice was given. You wanted to come to us to cancel, you [i]failed miserably in doing so[/i]. Had we known you were so pissed beforehand, we would've done something differently. I can't read your minds, so when you're ticked with us you [i]come to us[/i].

[quote]
Attempting to use the OWF is somehow encourage communications that you could have started directly is childish. Launching attacks at CSN because you're upset they canceled your treaty is childish. And pretending that your attacks are all in good fun because you're not man enough to be honest is childish. If you held even a modicum of the respect you claim to hold and you were the adults you claim to be, then it would more than abundantly clear that this is bad behavior on your part. Furthering conspiracies about Maroon, GOD, and CSN is not something you should be doing to friends, especially since your claim that it was in "jest" seems to fall a little flat given the outright attacks that have been leveled by you and others in this thread and others toward CSN.
[/quote]

You misunderstand me. I'm completely honest in my dealings with you. I found the terms to be a joke, and we found that if our entering the war on your side wasn't to be enough - which it seems it wasn't - then so be it. We went to war with LoSS on your behalf, and out of gratitude you cancel our MDP and tell us that we're not friends.

I would say I'm sorry that you had to dive in without a chain instead of piggybacking on an alliance, what, a fifth of your size, but I'd be lying through my teeth.

[quote]
But, hey, all of the above is in jest. See, that makes it just like I didn't say it at all. Seriously, in what world do we think putting "j/k" after insults erases them? My nephews stopped using that argument when they hit high school.
[/quote]

Yes, of course! In jest. I will happily take it in the spirit that it's offered and give it all the attention it deserves. If you have anything further you'd wish to add in private, feel free! You know where our forums are.

[Xiao Weng]

[quote name='SpacingOutMan' timestamp='1299780468' post='2658730']
I'm not sure what to really make of this. While I admit the announcement to be amusing, I find the content to be wanting. You are still unaware about why CSN dropped The Brain? Surely you jest, because it is quite apparent. It seems that your restraint knows no bounds as you find the need to throw in pot shot after pot shot against the Commonwealth and I have grown quite sick of it.

Thirty-give minutes before the war against LoSS you inform us that you are backing out of the war. That's right, [b]thirty-five minutes before update[/b] Gibsonator21 had to approach [b]you[/b] about what the hold up was. It would have been entirely different if you all had approached us prior to the update and explained to us this new revelation, but that did not happen. We had to approach you to find out that something "big" happened internally. But I digress, we got over this as you did, indeed, eventually enter the war.

While hindsight gives us the pleasure of convenience, [b]you left us out to dry[/b] at update, both militarily [i]and[/i] politically. But then we progress further through the war, where you engage in peace talks, and have the gall and audacity to mock your supposed "close allies" to our opponents? I'm glad that we were the topic of the jokes that day, truly. Moreover, Xiphosis gave you the reasoning of the cancellation? I wasn't aware that Xiphosis' name was SpacingOutMan (when I was the one who sent the cancellation message) and I wasn't aware that my posts in the other thread don't count (along with Goose's, Liz's, etc.).
[/quote]

Gibsonator sent me those same logs yesterday. I'll tell you here as I told him then: Sam didn't tell the rest of us. On the 21st, we were raring to go. Early morning on the 22nd - about an hour after update - I get a request to write a declaration of war. I do so, and get clearance to post it that night. Again I will say, gee, sorry we didn't play precisely to your tune.

I talked to Sam, our MoD, yesterday. He then said he'd gotten info that we were being set up to be a patsy by elements within CA/SF. By folks who we thought were our pals. Sam said he called a halt and was cagey on the details because you guys were involved.

He figured we were being set up to be the fall guy so the rest of you could be clean and shiny. We went ahead anyway.

Then you drop this demand for 40,000 tech. We weren't about to be a part of it, and the rest, as you know, is history.

Now, if less than 24 hours is this big a problem when we really had no reason to go to war in the first place, then perhaps you'd better sit the hell down and go over your foreign policy.

[quote]
We have had various communication gaffs and problems in the past too (notably with Freelancer). This isn't new news; this has been a problem lingering for a long time now. I will be the first to admit that CSN is at part to blame for some of the communication problems. Be that as it may, the communication problems were still there, and this is (more or less) the straw that broke the camels back between CSN and The Brain. Leaving the Chestnut Accords is your prerogative and your own sovereign decision. All I will add is that [b]you were already discussing canceling the treaty with CSN[/b] (according to Sam) prior to you being told we were canceling the treaty. Why you act like you've been dealt a grave injustice here is beyond me.
[/quote]

Yes, it's clear there has been said problems. As always, if there was ever a problem with us, with the way we handle our foreign policy, with the way we communicate on the Open World Forum, then our forums are right there. A private message is right there. There's been multiple avenues for you to contact us - but you guys gave up after there wasn't anyone on IRC.

We heard nothing. [i]Nothing[/i]. But now, [b]now[/b] you guys are talking! Now you're pissed! Now you're [i]honest[/i].

Fantastic. That's a start. We'll see if that continues.

[Goose]

[quote name='Xiao Weng' timestamp='1299783081' post='2658783']
Gibsonator sent me those same logs yesterday. I'll tell you here as I told him then: Sam didn't tell the rest of us. On the 21st, we were raring to go. Early morning on the 22nd - about an hour after update - I get a request to write a declaration of war. I do so, and get clearance to post it that night. Again I will say, gee, sorry we didn't play precisely to your tune.

I talked to Sam, our MoD, yesterday. He then said he'd gotten info that we were being set up to be a patsy by elements within CA/SF. By folks who we thought were our pals. Sam said he called a halt and was cagey on the details because you guys were involved.

He figured we were being set up to be the fall guy so the rest of you could be clean and shiny. We went ahead anyway.

Then you drop this demand for 40,000 tech. We weren't about to be a part of it, and the rest, as you know, is history.

Now, if less than 24 hours is this big a problem when we really had no reason to go to war in the first place, then perhaps you'd better sit the hell down and go over your foreign policy.



Yes, it's clear there has been said problems. As always, if there was ever a problem with us, with the way we handle our foreign policy, with the way we communicate on the Open World Forum, then our forums are right there. A private message is right there. There's been multiple avenues for you to contact us - but you guys gave up after there wasn't anyone on IRC.

We heard nothing. [i]Nothing[/i]. But now, [b]now[/b] you guys are talking! Now you're pissed! Now you're [i]honest[/i].

Fantastic. That's a start. We'll see if that continues.
[/quote]
I have, in the past, been quite vocal in tracking down ragu or shane-o when there's something you've done that I was displeased with. I'd have a discussion with them, get over it, and moved on. This time, however, there was nothing to discuss. You took a giant steaming dump on us with your terms and your lack of discussion about your supposed issues with us. We don't need/want allies that are willing to do that.

Edited March 10, 2011 by Goose

[Emperor Khan]

[quote name='SpacingOutMan' timestamp='1299780468' post='2658730']It's not even like Chestnut is that active [i]anyways[/i].
[/quote]
So why don't you withdraw from the CA's then? If they're as good as dead why are you still a member?

[chefjoe]

What???

Xiphosis overstepping his bounds??

No !@#$@#$ way!!! Not him!! He always wants the best for his friends and allies!!


Ohwai.....thats everyone but Xiphosis.

Nevermind, nothing to see here....

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='SpacingOutMan' timestamp='1299780468' post='2658730']
And for the record: I was actually trying to salvage the CSN-USN MADP at the time, to much my government's chagrin... even after Cora tried to get The Black Watch (our Head of State at the time) to fire me, even after I received flak from Cora because I initiated the cancellation process with a Treaty of Amity we held with UPN, and was called out constantly solely because I had made a gaff (and apologized for it)...
[/quote]

Not really important, but Goose was Head of State at the time, TBW resigned on March 28th and the discussions with USN were from March 30th onwards.

[SpacingOutMan]

[quote name='Xiao Weng' timestamp='1299783081' post='2658783']
Gibsonator sent me those same logs yesterday. I'll tell you here as I told him then: Sam didn't tell the rest of us. On the 21st, we were raring to go. Early morning on the 22nd - about an hour after update - I get a request to write a declaration of war. I do so, and get clearance to post it that night. Again I will say, gee, sorry we didn't play precisely to your tune.[/quote]

That is not my fault that your internal communication was botched. The fact is that the message was relayed to us at the last possible moment; we wouldn't have even known had we not messaged you. That is our beef with this entire ordeal.

[quote]I talked to Sam, our MoD, yesterday. He then said he'd gotten info that we were being set up to be a patsy by elements within CA/SF. By folks who we thought were our pals. Sam said he called a halt and was cagey on the details because you guys were involved.[/quote]

I have personally seen no such discussion or evidence to support this. Be that as it may, how would that type of situation set you up to be a patsy? We were [i]going[/i] to piggy back you; that reflects poorer on us than it does you, especially given that you had a treaty obligation to SLCB, yes? We would have been the ones chaining in, so either way our entry into the war was questionable.

[quote]He figured we were being set up to be the fall guy so the rest of you could be clean and shiny. We went ahead anyway.[/quote]

See above.

[quote]Then you drop this demand for 40,000 tech. We weren't about to be a part of it, and the rest, as you know, is history.[/quote]

If you were [i]really[/i] against it, then you should have voiced your concern to us instead of going out, pursuing peace without giving us even the slightest hint you were doing so, and then badmouth us to our opponents. Last I checked, The Brain did not declare war on DT [i]anyways[/i], so I'm not sure how you would even be remotely a part of it. Everyone knew exactly which alliance was making the demands.

[quote]Now, if less than 24 hours is this big a problem when we really had no reason to go to war in the first place, then perhaps you'd better sit the hell down and go over your foreign policy.[/quote]

So not obligating your Mutual Defense Pact with SLCB is "no reason to go to war"? Granted LoSS had not declared on SLCB, there was most certainly obligation to come to their defense against \m/, TKTB, UINE, TCU, and RIA. The reason LoSS was hit was because not only were they on this front, but they also were the least engaged compared to the aforementioned alliances that declared on SLCB.

[quote]Yes, it's clear there has been said problems. As always, if there was ever a problem with us, with the way we handle our foreign policy, with the way we communicate on the Open World Forum, then our forums are right there. A private message is right there. There's been multiple avenues for you to contact us - but you guys gave up after there wasn't anyone on IRC.[/quote]

Communication is a two-way road.

[SpacingOutMan]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' timestamp='1299785017' post='2658821']
Not really important, but Goose was Head of State at the time, TBW resigned on March 28th and the discussions with USN were from March 30th onwards.
[/quote]

TBW was Head of State during the incident where Cora demanded (to him) that I be fired as Minister of Foreign Affairs because I went ahead and canceled our treaty with UPN (which was only a ToA), along with not informing her directly that we had signed a treaty with Ragnarok.

[quote name='Emperor Khan' timestamp='1299784886' post='2658819']
So why don't you withdraw from the CA's then? If they're as good as dead why are you still a member?
[/quote]

We'd still remain a pseudo-bloc, so it really doesn't matter either way.

Edited March 10, 2011 by SpacingOutMan

[Jocabia]

[quote name='Xiao Weng' timestamp='1299780982' post='2658741']
Considering CA's own cancellation clause leads to an assumption that 'things will be worked out', color us surprised when our forum masks were removed. Said removal of masks prompted the Mooninites. Said Mooninites engender responses from your allies that suggest that because we didn't play specifically to your tune, we're the antithesis of what you want on Maroon.

Oh hey, that rhymed.

I do like the hedging on 'may or may not be true', though. That's classy right there.
[/quote]
The "hedging" is because I'm not actually aware of the truth of it. Neither are you. That's the point. I don't make conclusions absent evidence. It would be nice if we could both say that.

I'm going ignore the silliness of a thread where you suggest that you've been ousted from CA, though you left, and that you've been ousted from Maroon when also didn't happened, and then use some people saying good riddance as evidence for your claims. And it is silliness.



[quote name='Xiao Weng' timestamp='1299780982' post='2658741']The consensus seems to be that we're not wanted on Maroon. Given the size of our alliance compared to the rest of the bloc, I'm expecting war to be declared any day now. Such is the price of 40,000 fresh tehcno beats.
[/quote]
I love this one, too. Who is threatening war? This is a completely made-up slight against Maroon in an attempt to overshadow your own behavior. The bulk of Maroon hasn't threatened you with war and no one here has suggested it accept you and people who are not on Maroon. As has been pointed out, even USN wasn't forced off Maroon.

[quote name='Xiao Weng' timestamp='1299780982' post='2658741']
By the time the forum communication thing would've come around, our treaty was cancelled after retroactive notice was given. You wanted to come to us to cancel, you [i]failed miserably in doing so[/i]. Had we known you were so pissed beforehand, we would've done something differently. I can't read your minds, so when you're ticked with us you [i]come to us[/i].
[/quote]
Kind of like how you come to us when you're not planning to attack? You mean like that kind of "coming to us". The point is you said you're hoping to inspire a discussion and rather than simply starting one with us, you decided to attack us on the OWF like a child and hope we'd get annoyed enough to come to your forums.


[quote name='Xiao Weng' timestamp='1299780982' post='2658741']You misunderstand me. I'm completely honest in my dealings with you. I found the terms to be a joke, and we found that if our entering the war on your side wasn't to be enough - which it seems it wasn't - then so be it. We went to war with LoSS on your behalf, and out of gratitude you cancel our MDP and tell us that we're not friends.

I would say I'm sorry that you had to dive in without a chain instead of piggybacking on an alliance, what, a fifth of your size, but I'd be lying through my teeth. [/quote]

I'm not claiming your terms weren't a joke. But the core of jokes are often your true feelings. You openly mocked your allies as you also did in private. You bailed 35 minutes before you were supposed to declare war along with your allies and the only reason we even knew about it was because we sought you out. There is plenty of evidence of us looking for you in order to communicate. What evidence have you for any attempts from The Brain to communicate with us? How many times have you initiated communications about this and other things? It seems you cry foul about something easily remedied when you never even once tried any of several avenues to remedy it. Your games on the OWF are meant to distract people from your own behavior but throwing CSN under the boss. Given CSN's history with The Brain and The Brain's history with CSN, your behavior is more than disappointing.

And no one, not one person suggested our friendship was over from the side of CSN. You made that up as well. Although, it does seem you're doing your very best to make it true.


[quote name='Xiao Weng' timestamp='1299780982' post='2658741']Yes, of course! In jest. I will happily take it in the spirit that it's offered and give it all the attention it deserves. If you have anything further you'd wish to add in private, feel free! You know where our forums are.
[/quote]
My responses to your public rants will unsurprisingly be public. Much like your responses to our private communications with you should have *shocker* been private. See how that works?

I can explain better if you like. I know that you're new to this whole diplomacy thing, yeah?

[neneko]

The innocent well meaning ally act by xiao is so transparent at this point that I can't read his posts with a straight face. Which I suppose is a compliment in maroon.

Every vague accusation he threw at CSN has been proven false so far. CSN were respectful enough to keep private matters where they belong when cancelling on the brain. The brain on the other hand choose to take it up on owf which backfired big time now that it seems that CSN has been nothing but courteous and very very patient during this whole affair.

For the record I'm not a big CSN supporter. Not that I have anything against them I just never had any communication with them at all. The way the brain has been acting here has been truly sickening though. It'd be low to be acting like this towards your enemy, when you do this toward someone that was supposed to be your friend I don't know what to say.

It seems the latest RoK cancellation will overshadow this drama though. The brains 15 minutes is almost up. Hope you enjoyed them.

Edited March 10, 2011 by neneko

[Emperor Khan]

[quote name='SpacingOutMan' timestamp='1299785478' post='2658834']
That is not my fault that your internal communication was botched. The fact is that the message was relayed to us at the last possible moment; we wouldn't have even known had we not messaged you. That is our beef with this entire ordeal.[/quote]
I'm confused. If the guy you spoke to said he had information that would put a halt on the war at their end, why did you not wait?

[quote name='SpacingOutMan' timestamp='1299785557' post='2658838']
We'd still remain a pseudo-bloc, so it really doesn't matter either way.
[/quote]
Yes it does. Considering that the maroon spirit is all but dead, and CSN has effectively bought the entire bloc into disrepute with your recent actions, don't you think the right thing to do would be to withdraw from the CA's?

[Jocabia]

[quote name='Xiao Weng' timestamp='1299783081' post='2658783']Yes, it's clear there has been said problems. As always, if there was ever a problem with us, with the way we handle our foreign policy, with the way we communicate on the Open World Forum, then our forums are right there. A private message is right there. There's been multiple avenues for you to contact us - but you guys gave up after there wasn't anyone on IRC.

We heard nothing. [i]Nothing[/i]. But now, [b]now[/b] you guys are talking! Now you're pissed! Now you're [i]honest[/i].

Fantastic. That's a start. We'll see if that continues.
[/quote]
I love the hypocrisy. Our response to a communication with The Brain was to cancel a treaty with The Brain by sending a message to the Brain. Your response to being upset with CSN was to cancel your DOW without telling CSN, to bagging on us to LoSS, to bag on us publicly in peace terms with LoSS, and then to bag on us publicly in the OWF.

Clearly, we're in the wrong there. All of our communication about you was with you. All of your communication about us has been to someone else and, generally, made public by you.

[SpacingOutMan]

[quote name='Emperor Khan' timestamp='1299786068' post='2658855']
I'm confused. If the guy you spoke to said he had information that would put a halt on the war at their end, why did you not wait?[/quote]

It didn't end up mattering because The Brain went in [i]anyways[/i]. It was more so the fact that they didn't tell us anything was up until the very last possible moment. And we weren't the only ones going in; Legacy and RnR were also preparing to go in as well.

[quote]Yes it does. Considering that the maroon spirit is all but dead, and CSN has effectively bought the entire bloc into disrepute with your recent actions, don't you think the right thing to do would be to withdraw from the CA's?
[/quote]

Not in particular, no.

MDoAP with TTK.
MDoAP with GOD. SF! with GOD.
MDoAP with RIA. SF! with RIA.
We only don't have a treaty with CRAP, but we stay pretty close with them anyways.

If our allies feel our actions put them in disrepute, then they can, by the articles expressed in the Chestnut Accords, put us up for a vote of expulsion. This has been made clear.

[Emperor Khan]

[quote name='SpacingOutMan' timestamp='1299786670' post='2658870']
It didn't end up mattering because The Brain went in [i]anyways[/i]. It was more so the fact that they didn't tell us anything was up until the very last possible moment. And we weren't the only ones going in; Legacy and RnR were also preparing to go in as well.[/quote]
So what was all the fuss about earlier? It seems that some from CSN have been making a mountain out of a molehill on this point. If they tell you they have a problem, you wait until the matter is resolved.

[quote name='SpacingOutMan' timestamp='1299786670' post='2658870']
Not in particular, no.

MDoAP with TTK.
MDoAP with GOD. SF! with GOD.
MDoAP with RIA. SF! with RIA.
We only don't have a treaty with CRAP, but we stay pretty close with them anyways.

If our allies feel our actions put them in disrepute, then they can, by the articles expressed in the Chestnut Accords, put us up for a vote of expulsion. This has been made clear.
[/quote]
I'm actually advocating you leaving on your own accord, saving your allies the unenviable task of actually having to expel you.

[SpacingOutMan]

[quote name='Emperor Khan' timestamp='1299787349' post='2658887']
So what was all the fuss about earlier? It seems that some from CSN have been making a mountain out of a molehill on this point. If they tell you they have a problem, you wait until the matter is resolved.[/quote]

That is the convenience of hindsight. 35 minutes before update, Gibs queried Sam asking what was going on. Sam told him "we can't do way because of xyz". Then The Brain jumps in after having explicitly told us that they were not going in that night. It doesn't get any more clearer regarding that major gaff in communication.

[quote]I'm actually advocating you leaving on your own accord, saving your allies the unenviable task of actually having to expel you.
[/quote]

Why, because our allies actually support us through the good and the bad? We have talked to our allies and they have made their opinions clear. It is not necessary, nor does it change the fact that we would still be in Chestnut in essence (similar to how Fark is essentially still in SF!).

[Haven for Peace]

I go inactive for a year, and look what happened!

Best wish to the Brain.

[Ogaden]

[quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1299778581' post='2658672']
Hmm that sounds a bit out of charecter for maroon. The only time removal was ever spoken of in the past while i was there was NoV. If it happens to be true then maroon has lost the spirit that SPAM and CA had in its early stages.

Haf USN did as much to put themselves in that posistion as any other on Maroon.

God i hope your right it would be a disapointment if things had changed that MUCH.
[/quote]

Maroon never attacked USN and we won't attack the Brain. Maroon is a safe sphere to live on. We may not always be as close as we'd like, but being good neighbors on the sphere has always been the core of Maroonity.