GOONS Recognition of War with NPO meatshields/vassal states

[Feanor Noldorin]

Edit: double post, my apologizes.

Edited January 27, 2011 by Feanor Noldorin

[WalkerNinja]

How GOONS thinks that we're going to massacre you when while we're pre-emptively striking the GPA tonight is beyond me.

I guess we've got a reputation to live up to.

[Hadrian]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1296104701' post='2604556']/snip
What you fail to understand, [b](aside from the fact that attacking us in this way will not prevent TOP from slaughtering you, if they elect to do so, whichever of you they pick)[/b], is that you cannot defeat us like this. We will not break, we will not bend, we will not surrender. The old GOONS crumbled because of a systematic failure of leadership, one which my administration and I have no intention of repeating. We have the experience to know that even if you pound our nations, our side as a whole will emerge victorious. You have chosen a course of action that will enrich our experience here on bob, and bring us glory. [b]I don't know what logic you used to target us, did you think you could escape the mighty middle tier of MK, or the beyond dangerous elites of umbrella?[/b] Whatever the case, you have made a rather large error.[/quote]
Why are you parading around the supposed strength of your allies here?

Alliances are declaring on [b]you[/b]. Whether or not your allies will defend you is irrelevant. Your own alliance's strength is being called into question here, yet you are seemingly counting on the abilities of your allies to back you up...

Are you essentially saying "oh shiiiiiii-wait we're gonna be okay, our friends will protect us"?


[quote]We will emerge from this a stronger, more organized, and more unified community, and that is not something we would have gotten without this challenge. You are building us, one war at a time.[/quote]
What? They are not building you, they are irradiating your cities.

I expected a better announcement from a group of smacktalkers such as yourselves.

Oh and, as for the title...really? I could easily say GOONS is a !@#$%*/meatshield/vassal state of Sparta.

[Vol Navy]

[quote name='Lamuella' timestamp='1296135757' post='2605482']
to keep everyone updated on the current scores: at this point the Hurf Durf Coalition (not including NPO) have declared 151 wars against GOONS.

To put that in some kind of perspective:

There are 278 GOONS nations not in peace mode.

Of those, I'm going to be generous to the hurf durfers and say that because their big guns are behind hippy shields they can only attack people up to 40k. There are 261 GOONS nations they can attack in this case. This blitzkrieg amounts to considerably less than one defensive war per nation.

To put this in further perspective:

These are the numbers of nations that each of this coalition currently have in war mode:

TPF: 52
Legion: 240
Sanitarium: 5
Regnum Invictorum: 37
64digits: 4
NAC: 39

Total nations in war mode: 377

that's one war for every two and a half nations.

I've seen some shoddy blitzes in my time, but guys, this is kind of pathetic.
[/quote]


The fallacy of your argument comes in the fact that GOONs have 90 nations under 5k NS, we have 9. That makes a massive amount of GOONs unhittable for TPF. Then GOONs has another 60 nations between 5 and 10 k. We have 15 in that range.

So yes, GOONs are going to have far fewer declarations due to their massive bottom tier. I suspect there is decent business in your mid-tier.

[lamuella]

[quote name='Hadrian' timestamp='1296136792' post='2605502']
Alliances are declaring on [b]you[/b]. Whether or not your allies will defend you is irrelevant. Your own alliance's strength is being called into question here, yet you are seemingly counting on the abilities of your allies to back you up...
[/quote]

I know, right? It's almost like alliances between groups are an integral part of this game and the way it works.

[Hadrian]

[quote name='Lamuella' timestamp='1296136985' post='2605505']
I know, right? It's almost like alliances between groups are an integral part of this game and the way it works.
[/quote]
*whiiiizzzzzzzzzzzzzzz*

That was the sound of the point of my post missing your head by a mile.

Now..go back, and [i]read it carefully[/i].

You may notice, that I'm questioning why the sardine guy is ranting on about how "MK will do this" and "TOP will do that" and "you can't escape from Umbrella, hurr durr", when this announcement is all about GOONS.

[Alterego]

[quote name='Rocky Horror' timestamp='1296136095' post='2605484']
You do so underestimate us.
[/quote]
The OP was GOONS bragging that TOP was going to rescue you and defeat your opponents. If I underestimate you its because of the comments your leader made.

[the rebel]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1296104701' post='2604556']
<snip>

Greetings my new friends in the Ex-Heg! I want to take the time to thank you. I'm not mad, not in the least in fact, I am overjoyed. You see, Ex-Heg, you have just given us the greatest gift possible. [b]A challenge[/b].

Sardonic
-GOONS Pilot
[/quote]

I really find this funny, you found Ninjas and co a challenge, your alliance will become useless within a couple of days i suspect due to poor warchests, hope you all enjoy bill lock and/or peacemode if you aint going to surrender.

Maybe you will change your tune when you realise, maybe not, have fun

[lamuella]

[quote name='Hadrian' timestamp='1296137440' post='2605507']
*whiiiizzzzzzzzzzzzzzz*

That was the sound of the point of my post missing your head by a mile.

Now..go back, and [i]read it carefully[/i].

You may notice, that I'm questioning why the sardine guy is ranting on about how "MK will do this" and "TOP will do that" and "you can't escape from Umbrella, hurr durr", when this announcement is all about GOONS.


[/quote]

so the point you're trying to make is that seven alliances with a much higher combined NS than GOONS are stronger than GOONS.

And that should somehow be shameful to us.

[Rocky Horror]

[quote name='Hadrian' timestamp='1296136792' post='2605502']I expected a better announcement from a group of smacktalkers such as yourselves.

Oh and, as for the title...really? I could easily say GOONS is a !@#$%*/meatshield/vassal state of Sparta.
[/quote]That's an interesting choice of alliance, since afaik GOONS has never had a treaty with Sparta or fought in the same theatre as them.


[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1296137512' post='2605509']
The OP was GOONS bragging that TOP was going to rescue you and defeat your opponents. If I underestimate you its because of the comments your leader made.
[/quote]As it happens, I'm in MK and I am replying to a comment you made about Doomhouse (which happens not to have a leader). Our own strength, and the strength of our friends, is more than you reckon, as a cursory glance at the organisation of our NS will confirm.

[Hadrian]

[quote name='Lamuella' timestamp='1296137719' post='2605511']
so the point you're trying to make is that seven alliances with a much higher combined NS than GOONS are stronger than GOONS.

And that should somehow be shameful to us.
[/quote]
What? Are you even paying attention?

Focus, stay with me here Lammy, I promise to make this as painless as possible.

The point I'm making, is that the OP is bragging about his allies, when this war has been declared on GOONS.

Shouldn't he, oh I don't know, maybe say something about the strength of his own alliance? The very least he can do is say "oh noez we have too many lower-tier nations, we will be crushed".

Now give that a minute to sink in, you'll be alright.

[Hadrian]

[quote name='Rocky Horror' timestamp='1296138102' post='2605516']
That's an interesting choice of alliance, since afaik GOONS has never had a treaty with Sparta or fought in the same theatre as them.
/snip
[/quote]
Oh so [i]now[/i] you need to have a treaty with an alliance or have fought in the same war, to be close to them.

Gee, c'mon guys, make your mind up.

[lamuella]

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1296136964' post='2605504']
The fallacy of your argument comes in the fact that GOONs have 90 nations under 5k NS, we have 9. That makes a massive amount of GOONs unhittable for TPF. Then GOONs has another 60 nations between 5 and 10 k. We have 15 in that range.

So yes, GOONs are going to have far fewer declarations due to their massive bottom tier. I suspect there is decent business in your mid-tier.
[/quote]

Your coalition as a whole has 136 nations below 5k, and 68 between 5k and 10k. You outnumber us at every level as there are 100 more of you in war mode than there are of us.

It should be technically possible for every single member of your coalition to find a target and be well supported. The failure is not one of numbers but of ability.

[Rocky Horror]

[quote name='Hadrian' timestamp='1296138465' post='2605521']
Oh so [i]now[/i] you need to have a treaty with an alliance or have fought in the same war, to be close to them.

Gee, c'mon guys, make your mind up.
[/quote]Doomhouse is indeed closely tied to TOP.

[Vol Navy]

[quote name='Lamuella' timestamp='1296138468' post='2605522']
Your coalition as a whole has 136 nations below 5k, and 68 between 5k and 10k. You outnumber us at every level as there are 100 more of you in war mode than there are of us.

It should be technically possible for every single member of your coalition to find a target and be well supported. The failure is not one of numbers but of ability.
[/quote]


I speak only in regards to TPF's position in this matter. Other alliances can place what value they will on fighting it out below 5k ns at this point.

[C Mos]

o/ ROLL GOONS

[lamuella]

[quote name='Hadrian' timestamp='1296138226' post='2605518']
What? Are you even paying attention?

Focus, stay with me here Lammy, I promise to make this as painless as possible.

The point I'm making, is that the OP is bragging about his allies, when this war has been declared on GOONS.

Shouldn't he, oh I don't know, maybe say something about the strength of his own alliance? The very least he can do is say "oh noez we have too many lower-tier nations, we will be crushed".

Now give that a minute to sink in, you'll be alright.
[/quote]

no, you're still missing the point.

GOONS was chosen as the target for the retalliation for two reasons:

1) we're smaller than MK or Umbrella in terms of NS
2) our position on the treaty web is less central than MK or Umbrella

Thus attacking us might be throught to be easier, and might avoid the repercussions of attacking Mushroom Kingdom or Umbrella. To pick one example, attacking MK would activate their MDP with TOP.

What Sardonic was pointing out was that this ruse didn't work particularly well, and that if TOP wanted to enter, they'd find a way.

It's [i]obvious[/i] that a coalition with a hundred more nations than us in war mode, and incalculably more NS is bigger than us. Obvious and irrelevant, as this is a war between coalitions, not a war between alliances.

[HellAngel]

[quote name='Mark Ashton' timestamp='1296134583' post='2605464']
Yes.

Then you should have stayed neutral or canceled the treaty earlier. As far as I remember tC overwrote other defensive obligations. I don't want to argue the Karma war or anything though. It was justified.

If you take that situation and the situation now, you can conclude that TOP made the same mistake twice. Instead of using some sense, you blindly follow your "allies" although you said that you'll do what's best for TOP. I think the best for TOP would be making some reasonable decisions.
[/quote]

What TOP did was as good as staying neutral. They did not play a major gamebreaking role in that war (although they could have).

Also, what we are doing and will do is not part of the conversation. Obviously this will only be revealed when it's happening. You might say one or the other decision we made wasnt reasonable, but you are in no position to judge.

[Poyplemonkeys]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1296104812' post='2604571']
Anarchying a few under 30k nations isn't going to win any wars dude.
[/quote]

GOONS member A: Beating on our lower nations won't win you the war, you suck!

[quote name='Lamuella' timestamp='1296138468' post='2605522']
Your coalition as a whole has 136 nations below 5k, and 68 between 5k and 10k. You outnumber us at every level as there are 100 more of you in war mode than there are of us.

It should be technically possible for every single member of your coalition to find a target and be well supported. The failure is not one of numbers but of ability.
[/quote]

GOONS member B: You're not beating enough of our lower nations, you suck!

[lamuella]

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1296138630' post='2605524']
I speak only in regards to TPF's position in this matter.[/quote]

That's nice. I was talking about your coalition as a whole.

if you [i]want[/i] to talk specifically about TPF: you have 52 nations in war mode and you've declared 29 wars. That's better than some of your allies, but still hardly great.

[lamuella]

[quote name='Poyplemonkeys' timestamp='1296139111' post='2605529']
GOONS member B: You're not beating enough of our lower nations, you suck!
[/quote]

actually, my point was that they aren't declaring enough wars at all.

[Hadrian]

[quote name='Rocky Horror' timestamp='1296138557' post='2605523']
Doomhouse is indeed closely tied to TOP.
[/quote]
Your point being? I thought we were talking about GOONS and Sparta, now you're saying something about TOP?

And I thought I had seen it all.

[Rocky Horror]

[quote name='Hadrian' timestamp='1296139247' post='2605532']
Your point being? I thought we were talking about GOONS and Sparta, now you're saying something about TOP?

And I thought I had seen it all.
[/quote]I guess talking nonsense is one way to go about it.

[Hadrian]

[quote name='Lamuella' timestamp='1296138934' post='2605527']
no, you're still missing the point.

GOONS was chosen as the target for the retalliation for two reasons:

1) we're smaller than MK or Umbrella in terms of NS
2) our position on the treaty web is less central than MK or Umbrella

Thus attacking us might be throught to be easier, and might avoid the repercussions of attacking Mushroom Kingdom or Umbrella. To pick one example, attacking MK would activate their MDP with TOP.

What Sardonic was pointing out was that this ruse didn't work particularly well, and that if TOP wanted to enter, they'd find a way.

It's [i]obvious[/i] that a coalition with a hundred more nations than us in war mode, and incalculably more NS is bigger than us. Obvious and irrelevant, as this is a war between coalitions, not a war between alliances.
[/quote]
I believe there are more reasons than just those two, but I'll leave the reasoning at that, seeing as that's not what my argument is here.

Right...so your leader threatens with the strength of his allies and not with his own two hands?

Good to know.

[Hadrian]

[quote name='Rocky Horror' timestamp='1296139409' post='2605534']
I guess talking nonsense is one way to go about it.
[/quote]
Yeah, you're surprisingly good at it Rocky, you should consider it as a serious career move.