Joint Poison Clan - iFOK Announcement

[Ashoka the Great]

[quote name='Joe Izuzu' timestamp='1292966297' post='2548679']
Well, with us it was because NSO emphatically told us not to enter. With you guys it is because you told NEW that you wouldn't enter. Kind of a large difference there, don't you think?
[/quote]
It pains me to say that I largely agree with you on this.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='SonOfHoward' timestamp='1292966627' post='2548686']
I've said it before; iFOK has treaty conflicts with Fark directly, and INT through LEO.

If anything we could have attacked TPE but seeing as FARK/INT/TPE are a united front it probably wouldn't be such a good idea.
[/quote]

wait- i thought that ODPs did not matter? cuz according to PC and iFOK, any other alliance who defended DF would be considered bandwagoners, including those who were in NOIR with DF. so the official position of iFOK is that NOIR does not matter at all but somehow LEO does...

as for attacking TPE- yep you should have. PC could have hit INT as i don't think there are any ties there. now lookie there, PC and iFOK could have entered this war with ease. this whole "united front" is a cop out pure and simple.

[erikz]

As always, the situation has been over-analysed ten times already.

Just sit back and enjoy the events unfolding before your eyes...

[Chief Savage Man]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1292967020' post='2548693']
wait- i thought that ODPs did not matter? cuz according to PC and iFOK, any other alliance who defended DF would be considered bandwagoners, including those who were in NOIR with DF. so the official position of iFOK is that NOIR does not matter at all but somehow LEO does...

as for attacking TPE- yep you should have. PC could have hit INT as i don't think there are any ties there. now lookie there, PC and iFOK could have entered this war with ease. this whole "united front" is a cop out pure and simple.
[/quote]

[url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=94479]No they couldn't have.[/url]

[Monster]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1292967020' post='2548693']
wait- i thought that ODPs did not matter? cuz according to PC and iFOK, any other alliance who defended DF would be considered bandwagoners, including those who were in NOIR with DF. so the official position of iFOK is that NOIR does not matter at all but somehow LEO does...

as for attacking TPE- yep you should have. PC could have hit INT as i don't think there are any ties there. now lookie there, PC and iFOK could have entered this war with ease. this whole "united front" is a cop out pure and simple.
[/quote]

That would have bring them into conflict with other allies of bloc members. Why would they do that when it's clear NEW was in the wrong and had been the aggressors?

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1292967451' post='2548703']
That would have bring them into conflict with other allies of bloc members. Why would they do that when it's clear NEW was in the wrong and had been the aggressors?
[/quote]

so one ally should burn to save others. ya'll seriously making Polaris shine like a beacon right now.

[SonOfHoward]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1292967020' post='2548693']
wait- i thought that ODPs did not matter? cuz according to PC and iFOK, any other alliance who defended DF would be considered bandwagoners, including those who were in NOIR with DF. so the official position of iFOK is that NOIR does not matter at all but somehow LEO does...

as for attacking TPE- yep you should have. PC could have hit INT as i don't think there are any ties there. now lookie there, PC and iFOK could have entered this war with ease. this whole "united front" is a cop out pure and simple.
[/quote]

You need to do a little more homework. Except for TPE(again AFIAK) all those alliances are on the same side of the web. I don't really see NOIR turning into a oAP bloc for this. But NOIR does matter, PC is in it, so is Umb. I don’t think iFOK has ever said NOIR doesn’t matter.

[erikz]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1292967574' post='2548706']
so one ally should burn to save others. ya'll seriously making Polaris shine like a beacon right now.
[/quote]
Again: Polaris - \m/ - PC - FOK

Both PC and FOK called huge odds for something \m/ did.

Sure, one ally always burns to save others :')

[wickedj]

[quote name='The MVP' timestamp='1292954557' post='2548496']
It appears as if all of [url="http://www.cybernations.net/stats_alliance_stats_custom.asp?Alliance=nusantara+elite+warriors&input1=poison+clan"]PC won't go in,[/url] that [url="http://www.cybernations.net/stats_alliance_stats_custom.asp?Alliance=Fark&input1=nusantara+elite+warriors"]some of them will.[/url]

To those in PC who left to fight for NEW, nothing bad can be said of you.
[/quote]
I wish to echo this mans statements. Those of you who did the right thing deserve praise

[shahenshah]

[quote name='Geoffron X' timestamp='1292913839' post='2547967']
So, PC and iFOK, now that the war has been expanded, are you still following the same decisions?
[/quote]
They are [s]honour[/s] bound good sir.
Tho, NEW had it coming for taking a page out of Ramirus's book of rigidness and fail.

Edited December 21, 2010 by shahenshah

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='SonOfHoward' timestamp='1292967809' post='2548712']
You need to do a little more homework. Except for TPE(again AFIAK) all those alliances are on the same side of the web. I don't really see NOIR turning into a oAP bloc for this. But NOIR does matter, PC is in it, so is Umb. I don’t think iFOK has ever said NOIR doesn’t matter.
[/quote]

well accept in the OP where they stated that those alliances who wanted to defend DF through NOIR would be considered bandwagoners.

honestly, if an alliance hits an ally of mine, then i would hope to god my alliance would defend our ally. if it happens to be an ally of an ally, guess what- tis not my fault for defending a friend and ally.

not every war is going to be clear cut with the sides nicely lined up and all your ducks in a row. if you are waiting for that, then stop having your alliance and your allies continue to sign treaties. otherwise, it will never be clear cut and you will most likely end up having to hit an ally of an ally or go neutral.

[quote name='erikz' timestamp='1292967945' post='2548716']
Again: Polaris - \m/ - PC - FOK

Both PC and FOK called huge odds for something \m/ did.

Sure, one ally always burns to save others :')
[/quote]

not really. ya'll still had reserves. and all that would have been needed to end the war was for \m/ to accept peace from Polaris. so all this talk of odds being against PC/FOK is bs. even if it had stayed just the original 4 alliances and no one else jumped in, all that was needed to end it would be for \m/ to accept the open peace offer on the table.

also, it is one thing to burn [i]next[/i] to your ally. it is something entirely different to give 3 alliances permission to burn your ally.

[SonOfHoward]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1292968480' post='2548727']


not every war is going to be clear cut with the sides nicely lined up and all your ducks in a row. if you are waiting for that, then stop having your alliance and your allies continue to sign treaties. otherwise, it will never be clear cut and you will most likely end up having to hit an ally of an ally or go neutral.


[/quote]

NSO-ROK war was pretty clear cut IMO.

[Chief Savage Man]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1292968480' post='2548727']
not really. ya'll still had reserves. and all that would have been needed to end the war was for \m/ to accept peace from Polaris. so all this talk of odds being against PC/FOK is bs. even if it had stayed just the original 4 alliances and no one else jumped in, all that was needed to end it would be for \m/ to accept the open peace offer on the table.
[/quote]

Heh, I knew this one was coming. Grub's peace offer was basically for PC and \m/ to acknowledge that Polar had a right to dictate to us what we were and weren't allowed to do regarding an unprotected AA. I've never regretted refusing that offer. NEW was very clearly attacking a protected AA and PC and iFOK shouldn't be expected to cause massive problems for every other one of their allies by jumping onto the fire that NEW set for itself.

[hobbies0310]

YAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAY!!!!!!! WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


o/ NEW for starting it who cares about the CB

[Geoffron X]

[quote name='SonOfHoward' timestamp='1292966627' post='2548686']
I've said it before; iFOK has treaty conflicts with Fark directly, and INT through LEO.

If anything we could have attacked TPE but seeing as FARK/INT/TPE are a united front it probably wouldn't be such a good idea.
[/quote]
iFOK is not in LEO!

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='Joe Izuzu' timestamp='1292966297' post='2548679']
With you guys it is because you told NEW that you wouldn't enter.
[/quote]

Except you're wrong. NEW [i]did[/i] request that PC and iFOK (and FEAR and WFF for that matter) not enter.

Pulled that one right out of your ass, eh?

Edited December 21, 2010 by SirWilliam

[General Scipio]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1292967574' post='2548706']
so one ally should burn to save others. ya'll seriously making Polaris shine like a beacon right now.
[/quote]
Are you seriously arguing that it's better to have all your allies burn over ones retarded move than to just let the one that made the stupid choice deal with the consequeces of their own stupidity?

[supercoolyellow]

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1292969652' post='2548744']
Except you're wrong. NEW [i]did[/i] request that PC and iFOK (and FEAR and WFF for that matter) not enter.[/quote]

Which begs the question, why on Earth did they request WFF and FEAR enter?

[Monster]

They didn't necessarily. FEAR has said they would enter in any war involving NEW and I assume the same goes for WFF.

[ktarthan]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' timestamp='1292969921' post='2548749']
Which begs the question, why on Earth did they request WFF and FEAR enter?
[/quote]
Maybe they didn't!

Edit: Oh man, just noticed that your use of "beg the question" fits both as the logical fallacy and the modern day misuse.

Edited December 21, 2010 by ktarthan

[SonOfHoward]

[quote name='Geoffron X' timestamp='1292969534' post='2548742']
iFOK is not in LEO!
[/quote]

No but FOK is.

[Tromp]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' timestamp='1292969921' post='2548749']
Which begs the question, why on Earth did they request WFF and FEAR enter?
[/quote]
Really now, are you that stupid to think there couldn't be an ulterior motive here?

(/me checks AA... Oh right. No surprise here. You're just acting dumb.)

[supercoolyellow]

[quote name='Tromp' timestamp='1292970591' post='2548762']
Really now, are you that stupid to think there couldn't be an ulterior motive here?

(/me checks AA... Oh right. No surprise here. You're just acting dumb.)
[/quote]

You're really reading too much into what I'm saying. I'm not going after anyone atm and ITT, then NEW themselves. Seams like a crummy thing to do, do give half your allies a waiver, and then ask two others to throw themselves under the buss.

[Alterego]

Its not the first time PC has tucked tail when the odds didnt look good.

[Lukapaka]

[quote name='Joe Izuzu' timestamp='1292966297' post='2548679']
Well, with us it was because NSO emphatically told us not to enter. With you guys it is because you told NEW that you wouldn't enter. Kind of a large difference there, don't you think?
[/quote]

I'm impartial to this argument, but I'd like to point out the great number of people who have said "You don't let your friends get beat up, even if they ask you to let it happen..", or the many varieties of ways people have said it.