Backroom Extortion is Back

[Lord Strider]

[quote name='Cortath' timestamp='1289277708' post='2507288']
Interesting to see you come out and post, LS.
[/quote]

Seeing this gaggle of people that have trouble reading and jump to conclusions makes me come out. I find it funny that so many people are making a big deal out of 5 aid slots. If I was any smarter I would think that NSO is trying to bait us into war, which is beyond me as to why. The last PR stunt they tried to pull didn't work out to well either.

Cheers to going from a 3 million dollar war to a 15 million dollar war. Can we cut the crap and stop acting like teenage boys.

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='Lord Strider' timestamp='1289279499' post='2507330']
Seeing this gaggle of people that have trouble reading and jump to conclusions makes me come out. I find it funny that so many people are making a big deal out of 5 aid slots. If I was any smarter I would think that NSO is trying to bait us into war, which is beyond me as to why. The last PR stunt they tried to pull didn't work out to well either.

Cheers to going from a 3 million dollar war to a 15 million dollar war. Can we cut the crap and stop acting like teenage boys.
[/quote]
Maybe you should wait until you at least see the official line from your king before going too far up your own ass?

[Lord Strider]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1289279589' post='2507334']
Maybe you should wait until you at least see the official line from your king before going too far up your own ass?
[/quote]


Thank you for that comment i will try

Edited November 9, 2010 by Lord Strider

[Banksy]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1289279317' post='2507327']
Yes, because when someone points a gun at you and demands "gimme your wallet" you have no real reason to suspect that you saying "no" or fighting back will result in you being shot? Afterall, they never said "gimme your wallet or I'll shoot you", they just pointed the gun and asked for the wallet. So, you can hardly claim that the gun was a factor in your decision to hand over your wallet because no one said they's use it, right? O...k....then
[/quote]
It's a weak analogy as, in CN, everyone is holding a gun whenever they interact. You are implying that every interaction between two parties contains an implied threat if one has a higher NS than the other.

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='Lord Strider' timestamp='1289279765' post='2507337']
Maybe you should $%&@ off and post something relevant.
[/quote]
This made me laugh.

How was me suggesting that you perhaps wait until you hear from your government before continuing to post drivel irrelevant?

Edited November 9, 2010 by Ivan Moldavi

[BloodFury]

While I am not going to go through and read all the posts that everyone has made, I will simply leave a simple comment here.

Those that are in a position of power against another person will use that power in one way shape or form to get more out of the person than is what is owed. I cannot simply say that it is like a Mafia situation, where they would get protection money from people that were not in harms way or not because in one way shape or form there was a screw up that happened before a situation got ugly. As we are all humans, and humans are fallible and mistakes are bound to happen even by government officials so it is clearly a forgivable offense.

Each party is right in its own views.

The Mushroom Kingdom felt that it was wronged by a nation that they assumed was an NSO member, so they wanted retribution for the sleigh of hand which they assumed was an attempt to undermine their sovereign right as an alliance.

The New Sith Order laid multiple claims to the fact that this member was a ghost and it was a mistake that he had not been demasked yet. If this was true or not, even if he was a member a member at the time he broke the rules which resulted in expulsion from the alliance which should of made him responsible and no the New Sith Order for his transgressions as it has happened numerous times in the past when a nation screws up and is forced out of the alliance.



The brunt sum of it is that even though you are in an alliance, you are still responsible for your own actions. If you screw up to a point where you are removed from an alliances membership because of your actions you should be held responsible from the actions from that point forward and not the alliance. If an alliance realizes you screwed up enough to remove you and not defend you, it is not something that the alliance should be held accountable for. However if the alliance holds onto a member that screws up, then they should only be involved to a point of negotiating a settlement between the grieved parties and the party that did the offense.

[tamerlane]

[quote name='Earth Shaker' timestamp='1289279463' post='2507329']
I just wonder why would this thread go over 20 pages now. It was clearly an extortion and yet, no surprise, They're MK.
I'm just waiting to see a member of MK go rogue or something and then see what happens.

Poor show MK, as always.

@NSO: Should the need for not paying the reps arise just count me in for the MK #@&%
[/quote]
Why wait? Lets dance now, polly.

[BlkAK47_002]

I planned to sit this one out but I am sitting here having a brain hemorrhage watching you guys claim that you weren't planning to roll NSO if they didn't pay.Your members have made it quite clear from the beginning of this spectacle that it's exactly what you planned to do if NSO refused. Since some of you want to get technical I will join in on that, you were making demands, not requests but demands. When you make a demand that means you plan to enforce those demands if they aren't met. Bansky and Tamerlane were the only ones making decent arguments on MK's behalf but claiming that you weren't planning to attack them killed whatever chance you had of salvaging this political !@#$ storm.

[quote name='o ya baby' timestamp='1289277656' post='2507287']
i'm just responding to stupidity with sarcasm. it's a pretty common practice
[/quote]
I think you need more than semi-witty insults, "do something about it" and Smug emotes to help your case now.

Edited November 9, 2010 by BlkAK47_002

[Kalasin]

[quote name='Cortath' timestamp='1289277708' post='2507288']
Kalasin: I strongly recommend joining an alliance that doesn't blanch as much as ODN must be every time you talk.
[/quote]

Nobody in ODN gives a damn what I think about the NPO, and neither does anyone else really. If you hadn't noticed, you're about as popular as a turd in a bowl of punch at the moment.

[Letum]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1289279784' post='2507338']
It's a weak analogy as, in CN, everyone is holding a gun whenever they interact.
[/quote]

That precise point is that they don't. Most interactions do not take place under the assumption that military force will be used if one side doesn't get what it wants.

[Mathias]

[quote name='Letum' timestamp='1289280211' post='2507349']
That precise point is that they don't. Most interactions do not take place under the assumption that military force will be used if one side doesn't get what it wants.
[/quote]

So naturally NSO assumed exactly that.

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1289279784' post='2507338']
It's a weak analogy as, in CN, everyone is holding a gun whenever they interact. You are implying that every interaction between two parties contains an implied threat if one has a higher NS than the other.
[/quote]

It isn't a weak analogy at all. It perfectly demonstrates that a threat does not need to be explicitly stated to exist or to influence someone's actions during a "negotiation". The fact some of the dimmer bulbs around here actually believe that not to be the case isn't surprising at all. Then there are those that do know it is true but choose to feign ignorance for fear of undermining their argument.

[Believland]

RV, NSO, try negotiating next time. Honestly, Yev is terrible at negotiating... I mean, for God's sakes he payed NINETY MILLION DONGS for Methrage. Let me repeat that, [b]90 MILLION DONGS FOR METHRAGE[/b].


However, I've never been a fan of high balling an alliance.

[northstars]

"posts made by low-level members of an alliance should be taken at face value as official policy"

- xXxsmokezbudz420xXx, 2010

Edited November 9, 2010 by MNNorthStars

[Letum]

[quote name='Mathias' timestamp='1289280302' post='2507350']
So naturally NSO assumed exactly that.
[/quote]

Most MK members seem to be pretty candid about their ability to use "force" being a factor in the negotiations, so I doubt the fault lies with NSO.

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='MNNorthStars' timestamp='1289280682' post='2507357']
"posts made by low-level members of an alliance should be taken at face value as official policy"

- xXxsmokezbudz420xXx, 2010
[/quote]
Well, evidently according to MK trades made by low-level members (or ghosts, whichever) of an alliance should be considered the responsibility of the alliance as a whole so I fail to see your point.

Especially since several of your allies have tried to somehow establish that this was all a plot by the nefarious NSO to scam MK out of $3mil.

[Detlev]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1289279317' post='2507327']
Yes, because when someone points a gun at you and demands "gimme your wallet" you have no real reason to suspect that you saying "no" or fighting back will result in you being shot? Afterall, they never said "gimme your wallet or I'll shoot you", they just pointed the gun and asked for the wallet. So, you can hardly claim that the gun was a factor in your decision to hand over your wallet because no one said they's use it, right? O...k....then
[/quote]
We didn't ask for the whole wallet, just the cash and the credit cards.

PS, NSO you have 4 hours to cough up the tech and the cash. Send it to me direct.

[BlkAK47_002]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1289280041' post='2507346']
Nobody in ODN gives a damn what I think about the NPO, and neither does anyone else really. If you hadn't noticed, you're about as popular as a turd in a bowl of punch at the moment.
[/quote]
The fact that we come up in nearly every political debate actually makes us quite popular. In fact you seem to pop up when ever one of us posts and ranting about one thing or another more than Steve Buscemi. I think you might even be able to challenge him for the " NPO Groupie of the Year Title "

On serious note,If were are so damn irrelevant, STOP TALKING ABOUT US

[northstars]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1289280864' post='2507359']
Well, evidently according to MK [/quote]
thanks for the warning that this post was going to be more grasping at straws before I actually had to read it

[JD Storm]

[quote name='BlkAK47_002' timestamp='1289281108' post='2507363']
The fact that we come up in nearly every political debate actually makes us quite popular. In fact you seem to pop up when ever one of us posts and ranting about one thing or another more than Steve Buscemi. I think you might even be able to challenge him for the " NPO Groupie of the Year Title "

On serious note,If were are so damn irrelevant, STOP TALKING ABOUT US
[/quote]
MK has evidence? i find that laughable.

[Banksy]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1289280496' post='2507352']
It isn't a weak analogy at all. It perfectly demonstrates that a threat does not need to be explicitly stated to exist or to influence someone's actions during a "negotiation". The fact some of the dimmer bulbs around here actually believe that not to be the case isn't surprising at all. Then there are those that do know it is true but choose to feign ignorance for fear of undermining their argument.
[/quote]
But crying 'implied threat!' whenever there is an NS disparity is ridiculous. The fact is, when you claim MK was holding a 'gun' to the NSO's head you are claiming that we made our military presence felt in the chat. Nowhere did I see Pip or Yev saying "we're buying the tanks and increasing the alert level now," or anything else implying we were ready to attack the NSO if they didn't concede to our 'demands,' which would be similar to holding a gun to someone's head. What actually happened was, over many years of hard work, MK built up a lot of tech and now has a higher NS than the NSO. By using your analogy of the gun, you are saying that because of this, every relationship in CN where there is a NS inequality is the equivalent of the superior party threatening to attack (pulling out a gun) on the other.

If there was any malice, I would agree with you. But there isn't. Any threats were nothing more than assumptions on the NSO's behalf. Because RV is a seasoned CN ruler and alliance leader I think I can safely say that he knew the difference between an actual threat and thin air.

[delendum]

[quote name='Earth Shaker' timestamp='1289279463' post='2507329']
I just wonder why would this thread go over 20 pages now. It was clearly an extortion and yet, no surprise, They're MK.
I'm just waiting to see a member of MK go rogue or something and then see what happens.

Poor show MK, as always.

@NSO: Should the need for not paying the reps arise just count me in for the MK #@&%
[/quote]

I was expecting a fair amount of delusions when I opened this, but you my good sir are quite an unexpected gift.

[quote name='BlkAK47_002' timestamp='1289280035' post='2507345']
I planned to sit this one out but I am sitting here having a brain hemorrhage watching you guys claim that you weren't planning to roll NSO if they didn't pay.Your members have made it quite clear from the beginning of this spectacle that it's exactly what you planned to do if NSO refused. Since some of you want to get technical I will join in on that, you were making demands, not requests but demands. When you make a demand that means you plan to enforce those demands if they aren't met. Bansky and Tamerlane were the only ones making decent arguments on MK's behalf but claiming that you weren't planning to attack them killed whatever chance you had of salvaging this political !@#$ storm.


I think you need more than semi-witty insults, "do something about it" and Smug emotes to help your case now.
[/quote]

No, we weren't planning on attacking them, we were planning on getting compensation. The sum was a mistake which could've been corrected by dialog, but you're making it seem like this was some sort of pretext to get at NSO, and we really don't want that, if only because it would be a terrible waste of time and effort.

[quote name='Letum' timestamp='1289280768' post='2507358']
Most MK members seem to be pretty candid about their ability to use "force" being a factor in the negotiations, so I doubt the fault lies with NSO.
[/quote]

Let me give you a theoretical example here:

A: Hi, your member wronged us, please pay us reps for the loss.
B: No.
A: Ok, have a good day then.

Would that make more sense than A deciding to attack B?

In any event, the whole thing was meant to be a discussion based on which an agreement would've been made. NSO decided to turn it into an occasion to play victim.

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1289280041' post='2507346']
Nobody in ODN gives a damn what I think about the NPO, and neither does anyone else really. If you hadn't noticed, you're about as popular as a turd in a bowl of punch at the moment.
[/quote]
Again with your Pacifica-centric world view, it's quite scary sometimes. If you actually read the Emperor's comment he didn't mention or even make a passing reference to Pacifica, at all. Which just highlights your nonsensical attempts to make this about us, and makes your opinion of the NPO, or other people's opinions of your opinions of the NPO completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

Not a bad attempt at an :iceburn:, though the core vulgarity cheapens the attempt a little too much for my tastes. Better luck next time.

[Deatvert]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1289281718' post='2507369']
If there was any malice, I would agree with you. But there isn't. Any threats were nothing more than assumptions on the NSO's behalf. Because RV is a seasoned CN ruler and alliance leader I think I can safely say that he knew the difference between an actual threat and thin air.
[/quote]
What about the numerous explicit threats being tossed around by MK members in this thread? Obviously the government can control everything their members do so their threats are government-sanctioned.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1289281718' post='2507369']
If there was any malice, I would agree with you. But there isn't. Any threats were nothing more than assumptions on the NSO's behalf. Because RV is a seasoned CN ruler and alliance leader I think I can safely say that he knew the difference between an actual threat and thin air.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Yes, I do, and if you were actually interested in talking with us and not just milking whatever cash and tech you could under threat of force you wouldn't have to be dealing with this mess right now. You can try to feign innocence all you want, but this is now out in the open for all to see. MK's heavy handed second face isn't hidden anymore.[/color]