Imperial Establishment Proclamation

[Frostfirefox]

[quote name='Arrnea' timestamp='1287910730' post='2491912']
I would like to address this glaring factual error. This statement is utter rubbish. The result of the poll to impeach me was as follows:
Yes - 13
No - 12
Abstain (effectively 'no' votes) - 5
With between 35 and 40 members in the alliance at the time. Hardly a majority. Please come back when you can perform basic mathematical operations.

Edit: For those who can't be bothered to read our Charter (much like most of NsO), it is required that 80% of the total votes cast be in favor of impeachment for the Chief to be removed from office.
[/quote]

Arrnea,

Speaking as someone not tied up to much in this, most the members were left in the dark. I personally had no clue what was going on and most members ended up voting yes or no but were still highly indecisive. I had abstained, then resigned a few days later. But I won't put the entire blame on you. Most of it was a failure by the [b]entire[/b] government to an extent. I won't argue apples versus oranges and say anyone was perfect. Everyone in the office at the time faulted somehow and this is how it turned out. However, I do believe you, as the Brigade Chief, faulted the most since you left major holes in the alliance. Immediately removing the majority of the Government without replacements is not a good move. Removing these members because they had discussed the possibility of impeaching you due to the way you had handled the rogue situations is pointless. Dear Brigade Chief, you had attained your position through impeachment, and the way you handled being impeached left a broken shell of SOS Brigade. Weeks later, you have finally finished collecting your government (I believe). Still you think you did whats best for the alliance? Is the current government even remotely as good as the ones you removed. I look at the IRC channels and the forums of each. To me I don't see less than majority of the SOS Brigade breaking away to form a new alliance. I see the majority of the active members doing something about it. I believe NsO to be even greater than SOS Brigade now. SOS Brigade became weak the moment you removed the Government who had worked so hard in creating everything the alliance is. Now that they are gone, SOS Brigade will change slowly, but I feel it won't change the way you are hoping.

♥ Youmu

[Itsuki Koizumi]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1287639639' post='2489485']
The entire concept. I lack familiarity with it.

edit: Oh, it's entirely based on Cherry Blossoms. Fair enough.
[/quote]
come on roq. we all know you watch anime now and then

also, what happens to SOS now that half the gov's gone?

Edited October 24, 2010 by Itsuki Koizumi

[Ardus]

Speaking from a detached, objective position, both alliances should be utterly destroyed and their histories scoured from Planet Bob. It'd be for the best.

[Bernkastel]

[quote name='Itsuki Koizumi' timestamp='1287960183' post='2492295']
also, what happens to SOS now that half the gov's gone?
[/quote]

It's still intact and better than ever.

We're not going anywhere anytime soon.

[Gibsonator21]

Good luck..

/me squints

NsO? Well.. whatever. Good luck!

[Tromp]

Meh, too many hurt egos I see. Now I feel the need to post here. Weeaboo drama is the best drama, I guess.

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1287938962' post='2492083']
so, you got 13 votes wanting to impeach you, 12 votes not wanting to impeach you, and 5 votes abstaining (while statistically they are basically no counts, logically and in reality they are usually done when the person has no clue what is going on.) and you are coming here to !@#$%* at the creation of NsO, when it is obvious your skill as a leader is seen as wanting by (take it as a poll of your alliance) around half of your alliance.

who cares if the vote needed 80%. if half of those who actually knew what was going on and voted (i.e. yes/no votes) said you should be impeached, that should have slapped you in the face like a hard, wet towel. instead, it seems instead of learning from that vote how to be a better leader, you are in this thread complaining about those who left because you did nothing to improve your leadership. you seem to place the blame on others instead of realizing that half your alliance thought you were a crappy leader.
[/quote]
You got the gist of it, but you're missing a lot of details, none of which I feel the need to make public however.

I will say though, that the poll in question became more than just a vote about the need to change leadership. Where two parties are too stubborn to see the mistakes they have made, and/or are willing to admit them, fireworks can be expected. And as can be seen, explode it did. Blaming it solely on one party does the truth no good, but I won't take offense from you for that since you don't really have a clue as to what was going on anyway.

It was a bad show all around.

OT:
As for the NsO, I think it is in poor form, even more so considering how certain members went about it. Apparently you shared that opinion, Mio.
I am not going to state that I'd like to see you guys burn as others have done in this thread, for I do not. But I do hope y'all have learned from this experience, especially some high profile members who I am sure will know themselves who they are. To pretend that, contrary to what the exodus and subsequent founding of NsO showed, there were no ulterior motives when escalating the dispute, comes off as insincere and slightly insulting. So some self reflection might be a good start...

[lordliam]

To be honest, I think both parties could've just said. "Yo man, I'm sorry. I guess I wasn't really thinking when I did that. Let's go out for a drink and not screw up like this again. Let's forget this sorry affair and keep being the best we can be." But I guess CN doesn't work like that.

[GulagArchipelago]

SERIOUSLY....isn't this the opportunity the enemies of SOS have wanted all along? Divide up SOS and then cut up each splinter alliance. Seriously guys, merge back together and make up. Stop bickering and fighting over power...geez. I finally get the whole story with the whole impeachment stuff. This kind of stuff makes me feel ashamed that I was once in SOS.

[Tohru]

[quote name='GulagArchipelago' timestamp='1287971065' post='2492418']
SERIOUSLY....isn't this the opportunity the enemies of SOS have wanted all along? Divide up SOS and then cut up each splinter alliance. Seriously guys, merge back together and make up. Stop bickering and fighting over power...geez. I finally get the whole story with the whole impeachment stuff. This kind of stuff makes me feel ashamed that I was once in SOS.
[/quote]
Fighting over power? Where on earth do you even get that? You apparently do [i]not[/i] get the story with the impeachment stuff.

'Making up' is pretty much not going to happen. NsO exists because it wasn't going to happen. Arrnea should really win an award for being Most-Stubborn.

[quote name='lordliam' timestamp='1287970368' post='2492410']
To be honest, I think both parties could've just said. "Yo man, I'm sorry. I guess I wasn't really thinking when I did that. Let's go out for a drink and not screw up like this again. Let's forget this sorry affair and keep being the best we can be." But I guess CN doesn't work like that.
[/quote]
It would be nice wouldn't it?

Edited October 25, 2010 by Tohru

[dragonknight1000]

for anyone joining the thread: these 3 posts gives the tl;dr (more or less) as to what the BSing all about:

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=93728&view=findpost&p=2492083

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=93728&view=findpost&p=2492111

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=93728&view=findpost&p=2492379

Though it also happened b/c both sides had some...trust issues (which escalated last month and the result isn't pretty)

to those left in the SOS - here's something you may have overlooked: NONE of us (both SOS/NsO) wanted this to happen, some did all they could to fix it (myself included) while others were occupied tearing out one another's throats. We can't undo what occurred, all we can do now is just 'forgive and forget' and move on b/c I for one have enough of hearing this crap >_> We all #^@!-ed up one way or another (stupidity runs in the DNA :v) - that is certain but whining about it isn't going to change anyway so it's best to just let it die please. Granted, I don't have a lot of room to talk here but that's my 2 cents.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Tromp' timestamp='1287968904' post='2492379']
Meh, too many hurt egos I see. Now I feel the need to post here. Weeaboo drama is the best drama, I guess.


You got the gist of it, but you're missing a lot of details, none of which I feel the need to make public however.

I will say though, that the poll in question became more than just a vote about the need to change leadership. Where two parties are too stubborn to see the mistakes they have made, and/or are willing to admit them, fireworks can be expected. And as can be seen, explode it did. Blaming it solely on one party does the truth no good, but I won't take offense from you for that since you don't really have a clue as to what was going on anyway.

It was a bad show all around.

OT:
As for the NsO, I think it is in poor form, even more so considering how certain members went about it. Apparently you shared that opinion, Mio.
I am not going to state that I'd like to see you guys burn as others have done in this thread, for I do not. But I do hope y'all have learned from this experience, especially some high profile members who I am sure will know themselves who they are. To pretend that, contrary to what the exodus and subsequent founding of NsO showed, there were no ulterior motives when escalating the dispute, comes off as insincere and slightly insulting. So some self reflection might be a good start...
[/quote]

if you wish to give me the other details, i would be happy to listen via PM. if you wish those details to be kept private, i will do so. i am curious as to the full story of this as i am friendly with people from NsO and SOS.

[Imota]

Congratulations to the New Sakura Order on establishing themselves. While the leaders of our alliances have had their differences, I do hope that we can get along...

Edited October 25, 2010 by Imota

[Augustus Autumn]

[quote name='lordliam' timestamp='1287970368' post='2492410']
To be honest, I think both parties could've just said. "Yo man, I'm sorry. I guess I wasn't really thinking when I did that. Let's go out for a drink and not screw up like this again. Let's forget this sorry affair and keep being the best we can be." But I guess CN doesn't work like that.
[/quote]

If it did, the political landscape (if you could call such a poor immitation that) would be radically different and more mature. Unfortunately, people thrive on ego-driven plays at drama as a form of amusement and thus you have such charming showings. That being said, there's always hope for the future.

[Elrich von Richt]

[quote name='Ferrozoica Hive' timestamp='1287988448' post='2492621']
If it did, the political landscape (if you could call such a poor immitation that) would be radically different and more mature. Unfortunately, people thrive on ego-driven plays at drama as a form of amusement and thus you have such charming showings. That being said, there's always hope for the future.
[/quote]

Indeed.

I've personally been ignoring the comments on the last couple of pages, and held myself back from responding to them.

It's because I (and the others in the alliance I've talked to) know the past is the past, and we plan to move on from it.

[Ginryusama]

[quote name='Ferrozoica Hive' timestamp='1287988448' post='2492621']
If it did, the political landscape (if you could call such a poor immitation that) would be radically different and more mature. Unfortunately, people thrive on ego-driven plays at drama as a form of amusement and thus you have such charming showings. That being said, there's always hope for the future.
[/quote]
Oh plz, give me a break... World can be changed just by nice words alone.

Edited October 25, 2010 by Ginryusama

[Augustus Autumn]

[quote name='Ginryusama' timestamp='1288047129' post='2493127']
Oh plz, give me a break... World can be changed just by nice words alone.
[/quote]

I'll be sure to get right on that.

[Locke]

OOC: My post disappeared. O.o

[quote name='Michael von Prussia' timestamp='1287914659' post='2491928']
If by "doing something" you mean being Elrich's puppet leader for the sake of public appearances, then [i]good job![/i] [img]http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b39/BKey/Anime/Lucky%20Star/konata1.gif[/img]
[/quote]
[img]http://imgur.com/PYU3Q.gif[/img]

[quote name='Tohru' timestamp='1287935261' post='2492042']
And a plan to impeach is 'disloyal'? Sheesh, if people think the leader isn't doing a good job they should be able to think that without people like you non-stop bashing them.
[/quote]
Planning to impeach is not disloyal (to the alliance, anyways). Planning to do so and then lying about ever having talked about it is though; if I have a problem with someone, I, you know, [i]talk to them[/i] about it.

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1287938962' post='2492083']
so, you got 13 votes wanting to impeach you, 12 votes not wanting to impeach you, and 5 votes abstaining (while statistically they are basically no counts, logically and in reality they are usually done when the person has no clue what is going on.) and you are coming here to !@#$%* at the creation of NsO, when it is obvious your skill as a leader is seen as wanting by (take it as a poll of your alliance) around half of your alliance.

who cares if the vote needed 80%. if half of those who actually knew what was going on and voted (i.e. yes/no votes) said you should be impeached, that should have slapped you in the face like a hard, wet towel. instead, it seems instead of learning from that vote how to be a better leader, you are in this thread complaining about those who left because you did nothing to improve your leadership. you seem to place the blame on others instead of realizing that half your alliance thought you were a crappy leader.
[/quote]
Since Tromp already addressed this I won't rag on you, but...yeah, you're very uninformed here, Doch. I'll try getting to you when I get to Hereno. Getting time on IRC is so difficult these days. :<

[quote name='Saniiro Matsudaira' timestamp='1287938970' post='2492084']
If Elrich wanted a puppet leader, he would've made me leader.
[/quote]
Umm...you sure you want to say that? It doesn't say good things about you. [img]http://imgur.com/PYU3Q.gif[/img]

[Felix von Agnu]

I wonder why alliances put provisions in their charter for removing power from certain individuals. It seems whenever someone invokes it a splinter cell breaks off, or the person that is being removed calls it a coup and starts purging the alliances. Or both.

I'd wish the parties luck, but calling for an impeachment,and then leaving when it fails just seems childish to me.

If I'm wrong with my interpretation of this situation I'll gladly change my view. Until then NsO just seems like some petty splinter.

[Michael von Prussia]

[quote name='Felix von Agnu' timestamp='1288063050' post='2493291']
I wonder why alliances put provisions in their charter for removing power from certain individuals. It seems whenever someone invokes it a splinter cell breaks off, or the person that is being removed calls it a coup and starts purging the alliances. Or both.
[/quote]
All in all, there are two different incidents being discussed between SOS団 and NsO members here, and everyone else seems to be thinking they're the same. For the sake of clarification, I'll try to be more neutral in this post than I have in my last, and I'll pretend, for the moment being, that there's no proof of anything:

[list=1]
[*]Various individuals, many now in NsO, hold a private discussion. NsO says they were planning to impeach Arrnea, whereas Arrnea and his supporters say they were discussing a coup not based in the Charter.
[*]Arrnea takes action against various members whom he believed plotted to coup him, removing several members of government (as was his right as Brigade Chief).
[*]A legitimate impeachment motion is [i]then[/i] brought against Arrnea on the basis he mishandled events in point 2 above, but fails.
[/list]
Ending my bout of forced neutrality and ignorance of proof, here, I've never once called members of the NsO traitors for trying to impeach Arrnea. I'm calling them traitors because before they ever tried to impeach him, they attempted to coup him in a manner not prescribed by the Charter.

Edited October 26, 2010 by Michael von Prussia

[Cataduanes]

sigh...

As an ally of the SOS Brigade us Commies are naturally saddened by this turn of events, in the interest of general progress I hope both SOS and NsO can move on and pursue their now separate identities.

[oOoMidooOo]

A bit late to the Party but this is a WiN!

Grats Guys Love you <3

[Teddyyo]

New Sakura Order?

What's new?

[Tohru]

[quote name='Michael von Prussia' timestamp='1288071308' post='2493407']
All in all, there are two different incidents being discussed between SOS団 and NsO members here, and everyone else seems to be thinking they're the same. For the sake of clarification, I'll try to be more neutral in this post than I have in my last, and I'll pretend, for the moment being, that there's no proof of anything:

[list=1]
[*]Various individuals, many now in NsO, hold a private discussion. NsO says they were planning to impeach Arrnea, whereas Arrnea and his supporters say they were discussing a coup not based in the Charter.
[*]Arrnea takes action against various members whom he believed plotted to coup him, removing several members of government (as was his right as Brigade Chief).
[*]A legitimate impeachment motion is [i]then[/i] brought against Arrnea on the basis he mishandled events in point 2 above, but fails.
[/list]
Ending my bout of forced neutrality and ignorance of proof, here, I've never once called members of the NsO traitors for trying to impeach Arrnea. I'm calling them traitors because before they ever tried to impeach him, they attempted to coup him in a manner not prescribed by the Charter.
[/quote]

Well calling us traitors for attempting to coup him is really weird, being that we didn't do that =.= but of course to you, whatever Arrnea says MUST be true. Even your neutral explaination is off. The impeachment was not because of 'point 2', it was because of the reasons we were planning to impeach him already. Besides myself, the other persons that were discussing impeachment weren't sure if they wanted to do it or not. Arrnea going crazy and removing everyone who discussed impeachment from government kind of made them realize they definitely wanted to impeach now. Mishandling events in 'point 2' is [b]in addition[/b] to the other problems we had with him.

Ironic that one of the reasons I wanted him impeached was because he jumped to conclusions and made decisions without fully looking into the situation. And then he does it again based on the plan to impeach him.

Seriously, none of us mentioned anything at all bad about SOS団 when we made this DoE. And suddenly you all come and start bashing us. Please just give it a rest already.

Edited October 26, 2010 by Tohru

[kriekfreak]

Oh my look at this, it seems that Karma came back and bit Arrnea in the bum. I hope it feels good Arrnea because you deserve it. I'm not sure if Arrnea changed a lot since his leave from iFOK but if he still is the lazy guy who wants to be in power but don't want to put any work in, I don't fault the former SOS members for wanting to "impeach" him.

Guess it's time for Tromp to take over so I can collect my prize.

Edited October 26, 2010 by kriekfreak

[Michael von Prussia]

[quote name='Tohru' timestamp='1288105951' post='2493565']
Well calling us traitors for attempting to coup him is really weird, being that we didn't do that =.= but of course to you, whatever Arrnea says MUST be true.
[/quote]
You must recall, given that you think I'm just taking everything Arrnea says as absolute fact, that I wasn't in SOS団 at the time. However, I would advise you not to assume all the information I have on it is from Arrnea. I'm on friendly terms with several of those who were invited to your private little conversation on the matter.

[quote name='Tohru' timestamp='1288105951' post='2493565']
Even your neutral explaination is off. The impeachment was not because of 'point 2', it was because of the reasons we were planning to impeach him already. Besides myself, the other persons that were discussing impeachment weren't sure if they wanted to do it or not. Arrnea going crazy and removing everyone who discussed impeachment from government kind of made them realize they definitely wanted to impeach now. Mishandling events in 'point 2' is [b]in addition[/b] to the other problems we had with him.
[/quote]
My apologies, now that I look back at my description, from a more neutral perspective I really shouldn't have said it was because of Point 2.

[quote name='Tohru' timestamp='1288105951' post='2493565']
Ironic that one of the reasons I wanted him impeached was because he jumped to conclusions and made decisions without fully looking into the situation. And then he does it again based on the plan to impeach him.

Seriously, none of us mentioned anything at all bad about SOS団 when we made this DoE. And suddenly you all come and start bashing us. Please just give it a rest already.
[/quote]
I'm afraid that the existence of your alliance says something bad about SOS団. [i]You[/i] attempted a coup, [i]you[/i] got caught, and [i]you[/i] even failed to impeach Arrnea while exploiting confusion in the aftermath. [i]You[/i] then got pouty and ran off to start your own alliance and refused to admit fault. [i]You[/i] have a lot of work to do if you want anyone to 'give it a rest'.

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1288107710' post='2493566']
Oh my look at this, it seems that Karma came back and bit Arrnea in the bum. I hope it feels good Arrnea because you deserve it. I'm not sure if Arrnea changed a lot since his leave from iFOK but if he still is the lazy guy who wants to be in power but don't want to put any work in, I don't fault the former SOS members for wanting to "impeach" him.

Guess it's time for Tromp to take over so I can collect my prize.
[/quote]
I like how even when you're taking their side, you can't help but put those quotation marks around "impeach"