Ninja Election Announcement

[Diogenes]

[quote name='Gamemaster1' timestamp='1285795933' post='2468728']
Did ya quote the wrong post by accident? Because that had [i]nothing[/i] to do with my post.

Maybe if I asked it in a question you might understand it easier: Why are you calling an established alliance rogues?

And this post obviously isn't complete, it's lacking a potshot at your AA. ....Nah.
[/quote]

Whether or not they were or are currently established as an alliance has nothing to do with the question of whether or not they are rogues. In other words, it is quite possible for the Ninjas to be an [i]alliance of rogues[/i]. And they are! Hope this helps.

[Some-Guy]

[quote name='ROMMELHSQ' timestamp='1285795484' post='2468713']
A gangbang on a 11 man alliance. how refreshing..can't you pathetic people in GOONS handle even that instead of running to your nanny??

Ejay and the others: Have fun, my great Gremlins friends!!!
[/quote]

You're much much smarter than this Rommel.

The Ninjas, an small group of high NS, chose to start a fight with GOONS, a large group of relative low NS. GOONS have one member, Umar, in the range of the Ninja's top 5 nations. With respect to my new brothers, GOONS are not well equipped to deal with this attack, but GOONS has friends who can help bring the fight to a quicker conclusion and fight toe-to-toe with Ninja nations.

What sort of stupid person/alliance rejects the chance to lessen the damage done when friends offer to help? Really now, do come on.

If the Ninja's wished to have sought some pre-fight agreement I'm quite sure an accommodation would have been reached. Instead, they launched head long into a fight in full knowledge of GOON'S relations, I give The Ninja's much credit for standing up for what they believe in and I give them much respect for getting on with the job and not whining about the numbers that they face. Good for them, I hope they have fun and find an acceptable resolution - but they walked into this match up with their eyes wide open and they have no sympathy from me. Woodstock was a gangbang, this ain't.

It is an entirely ridiculous argument to suggest that friends of GOONS would sit by and do nothing, if Argent had been the target of this attack you know full well TOP would be there 100% no matter what. Why wouldn't you afford that same respect to others?

I can accept and happily ignore when the hoi polloi chunter on with this idiotic and half assed propaganda... but I won't stand by and let intelligent folk like you spew the same meaningless rabble.

By all means cheer on your friends, but don't repeat nonsense mate.

Edited September 29, 2010 by Some-Guy

[Egwaterboy61]

[quote name='JT Jag' timestamp='1285798108' post='2468781']
Why? Did you have a mutual aggression clause with them?
[/quote]

Nope. Doesn't change that what we did was out of *respect*.

[Vol Navy]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1285797764' post='2468776']
Well, they did cancel their treaty with VE without the wait period so they could declare on friends of VE.
[/quote]


If you guys are such great friends with VE why were you so belligerent towards their very good friends and MDoAP partners in the Ninjas day after day?

[Xavii]

[quote name='Lord Fingolfin' timestamp='1285797506' post='2468767']
Keep on trucking along GOONS, be the big man, be the bad guys, have fun with it. [b]When it comes around to bite you in the ass, I'll be waiting.[/b] Never thought I'd say that I wish Electron Sponge or Almighty Grub was still in power, especially after how I watched Grub basically destroy my world after he pulled his betrayal in the last war. But at least he had cajones, and he would have already declared upon and destroyed GOONS. Lets see if anyone else has the strength of character to follow suit
[/quote]
What are you waiting for? A chance to attack GOONS?

edit OOC : Egwaterboy61, you like Will Smith that much you keep him in your avatar & sig? At least change the picture. (This goes for everyone who has same picture in their sig & avatar. Just had to get that out there.)

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1285798461' post='2468792']
If you guys are such great friends with VE why were you so belligerent towards their very good friends and MDoAP partners in the Ninjas day after day?
[/quote]
To be fair, Ejay said he was going to aid Methrage, GOONS simply said do it, see what happens.

Edited September 29, 2010 by Xavii

[JT Jag]

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1285798461' post='2468792']
If you guys are such great friends with VE why were you so belligerent towards their very good friends and MDoAP partners in the Ninjas day after day?
[/quote]To be honest, we are never the belligerent party in these affairs. Here's how it goes.

1. GOONS does something. Anything. Could be donating money to an animal shelter, for all it matters.
2. Someone complains about GOONS, calls us evil, and threatens that harm will come to our alliance while not claiming actual responsibility for doing the deed. Like Fingolfin there.
3. We respond saying that words are cheap.

99.9% of the time it ends there. The Ninjas pressed on. Bravo for that, more fun for everyone.

Edited September 29, 2010 by JT Jag

[Moridin]

[quote name='Quiziotle' timestamp='1285798288' post='2468788']
Whether or not they were or are currently established as an alliance has nothing to do with the question of whether or not they are rogues. In other words, it is quite possible for the Ninjas to be an [i]alliance of rogues[/i]. And they are! Hope this helps.
[/quote]

What the hell? That's the most retarded thing I've ever heard. In my four years in the Cyberverse, a "rogue" has always been a nation, not affiliated with an alliance, that engages in an aggressive war. There is no such thing as an "alliance of rogues". That's an utterly ridiculously term that as far as I can tell you lot pulled out of god-knows-where purely for this thread. This is roughly on par with when Continuum members tried to arbitrarily re-define the term "alliance" to exclude Vox Populi.

I think a lot of arguments in this thread have been monumentally stupid - "GOONS' allies shouldn't help them!", or "There wasn't a valid casus belli!", so on and so forth. But calling the Ninjas an "alliance of rogues" has to take the cake.

[Kzoppistan]

[quote name='Quiziotle' timestamp='1285798288' post='2468788']
Whether or not they were or are currently established as an alliance has nothing to do with the question of whether or not they are rogues. In other words, it is quite possible for the Ninjas to be an [i]alliance of rogues[/i]. And they are! Hope this helps.
[/quote]

Ha ha ha, wow. Actually, going rogue or being a rogue means one discards their membership in an AA in order to pursue an individual goal, often prohibited by membership. Don't make me get the wiki and dictionaries out.

Normally I use a little more tact but since I don't have any time I'll just state that you are either grossly misinformed about the definition (even which definition is in flux, you are still pretty far off the mark) of what being a rogue is or you are practicing some rather blatant PR dishonesty in order to "rebrand" the situation.

Do yourself and your alliance a favor, stick to the facts and don't try to spin propaganda right in front of the eyes of even the half-awake. Your arguments will hold so much more weight when braced with integrity.

*Edit: What Moridin said.

Edited September 29, 2010 by Kzoppistan

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='JT Jag' timestamp='1285798692' post='2468799']
To be honest, we are never the belligerent party in these affairs. Here's how it goes.

1. GOONS does something. Anything. Could be donating money to an animal shelter, for all it matters.
2. Someone complains about GOONS, calls us evil, and threatens that harm will come to our alliance while not claiming actual responsibility for doing the deed. Like Fingolfin there.
3. We respond saying that words are cheap.

99.9% of the time it ends there. The Ninjas pressed on. Bravo for that, more fun for everyone.
[/quote]
What GOONS does do is raid small alliances and unaligned nations while telling people who disagree to do something about it and that you guys will attack who you want. However whenever someone actually does something the amount of whining that comes from you guys is sickening.

[SiCkO]

Best of luck to both sides, I'm certain this will be interesting.

[JT Jag]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1285798953' post='2468804']
What GOONS does do is raid small alliances and unaligned nations while telling people who disagree to do something about it and that you guys will attack who you want. However whenever someone actually does something the amount of whining that comes from you guys is sickening.
[/quote]Where exactly are we whining? All I see are uninvolved people saying "curbstomp this", "e-honour that", "don't work with your allies ever" here and "here's how you should fight your defensive war" there.

Where do WE whine?

[Ejayrazz]

[quote name='JT Jag' timestamp='1285798108' post='2468781']
Why? Did you have a mutual aggression clause with them?
[/quote]
VE knows they would have been expected to defend us; we both know how the public works.

We both waived the cancellation period, our treaty was never broken.

[JT Jag]

[quote name='Ejayrazz' timestamp='1285799185' post='2468809']
VE knows they would have been expected to defend us; we both know how the public works.

We both waived the cancellation period, our treaty was never broken.
[/quote]How would they be "defending" you? Need you forget that you are, in fact, attacking us and not the other way around?

[Diogenes]

[quote name='Moridin' timestamp='1285798730' post='2468800']
What the hell? That's the most retarded thing I've ever heard. In my four years in the Cyberverse, a "rogue" has always been a nation, not affiliated with an alliance, that engages in an aggressive war. There is no such thing as an "alliance of rogues". That's an utterly ridiculously term that as far as I can tell you lot pulled out of god-knows-where purely for this thread. This is roughly on par with when Continuum members tried to arbitrarily re-define the term "alliance" to exclude Vox Populi.

I think a lot of arguments in this thread have been monumentally stupid - "GOONS' allies shouldn't help them!", or "There wasn't a valid casus belli!", so on and so forth. But calling the Ninjas an "alliance of rogues" has to take the cake.
[/quote]

Are you trying to tell me that several individuals pooling their resources together under a single banner and declaring war on an alliance they dislike purely for the sake of creating mischief does not make them a literal "alliance of rogues"?

[Anu Drake]

They could be rogues like Rogue Group. As IAA will tell you, Wedge was pretty good.

After reading the threads and having a good idea of where things are going makes me feel that GOONS are in the right and the demographics of the 16 nations warrants the calling in of more suitably matched allies in an obvious defense situation. While both sides should just be cool and drop it, especially since Ejay is involved, I wouldn't fault the coalition's against the ninjas actions.

Besides, ninjas are pretty weak historically, despite myth.

[Omas Nams]

[quote name='JT Jag' timestamp='1285799240' post='2468810']
How would they be "defending" you? Need you forget that you are, in fact, attacking us and not the other way around?
[/quote]

That may be so, but once all your allies jumped in there would have been public pressure on VE to step in.

[Ejayrazz]

[quote name='JT Jag' timestamp='1285799240' post='2468810']
How would they be "defending" you? Need you forget that you are, in fact, attacking us and not the other way around?
[/quote]
That's not how VE works. They'd defend us even if we were the aggressors when retaliated upon; that was our relationship and many of them know this. We didn't want them to face destruction over an ODP partner. You can try questioning our loyalty, but VE will tell you we've been nothing but good allies since day 1, as they have as well.

[JT Jag]

[quote name='Omas Nams' timestamp='1285799327' post='2468813']
That may be so, but once all your allies jumped in there would have been public pressure on VE to step in.
[/quote]Pressure they would not be obligated to, and honestly would be stupid to bow to, as they would have to fight multiple alliances they are treatied to over the aggressive actions of one of them.

Which is [i]unlike[/i] the obligation our mutual defense partners have to work with us when an aggressive action like this one is levied on us. A favor we would happily repay.

[JT Jag]

That said, canceling the treaty was the politically prudent move and I applaud you for it. That said, it would have been best if you had timed it better.

[Moridin]

[quote name='Quiziotle' timestamp='1285799275' post='2468811']
Are you trying to tell me that several individuals pooling their resources together under a single banner and declaring war on an alliance they dislike purely for the sake of creating mischief does not make them a literal "alliance of rogues"?
[/quote]

I am saying exactly that, because the term "alliance of rogues" is an oxymoron. I am curious when the situation you just described actually occurred though; I can remember taking part in something like that a couple years ago, but you're misrepresenting the current situation. This wasn't for the purpose of "creating mischief" (though a member of the Ninjas can correct me if I'm wrong on that count).

[the rebel]

[quote name='JT Jag' timestamp='1285797826' post='2468777']
Grub in charge for a while when we were young and vulnerable, and he didn't do anything then.

And he certainly wouldn't do anything now that we're in a better position, politically and militarily, than ever.[/quote]

Reminds me of a time when Grub was in power at Polar and came really close to declaring on Athens for their do something about it attitude over the knights of Ni and they was then in a better position than where GOONS stand now, maybe im wrong but thats what i heard.

[New Frontier]

[quote name='TrotskysRevenge' timestamp='1285796708' post='2468752']


I don't necessarily have problem with GOONS (beyond the Red Raiding Safari) but I do have a problem with what you are doing around this 12-man alliance; you could easily have taken them on your own without any outside help. Like NSO did, you should have asked your allies to stay out of it.
[/quote]
For the life of me, I cannot understand what gives Emperor Revenge, ruler of the New Pacific Order through what is arguably its most hegemonic and imperialistic era, any credibility whatsoever when talking about "ganging up".

[Ejayrazz]

[quote name='JT Jag' timestamp='1285799576' post='2468820']
That said, canceling the treaty was the politically prudent move and I applaud you for it. That said, it would have been best if you had timed it better.
[/quote]
Our timing was good. We had to declare right after the dissolution of the treaty, which was at a set time. From that point on, we were alignless, meaning anyone could attack us. Since we had some certain leaks (You'll find out later), we had to act rather than fighting 5 minutes before update. We couldn't risk being hit before us hitting first.

[Ejayrazz]

[quote name='Quiziotle' timestamp='1285799275' post='2468811']
Are you trying to tell me that several individuals pooling their resources together under a single banner and declaring war on an alliance they dislike purely for the sake of creating mischief does not make them a literal "alliance of rogues"?
[/quote]
You and your own alliance mates should have a talk, as well as your allies. You all are all over the place; half admit we are an alliance and the other doesn't. We've been here for nearly a year dude, we're an alliance whether you come to terms with your false rationalizations or not. Your justifying something with false rhetoric. We are an alliance. If you're going to attack us, have the balls to at least make a DoW since apparently you feel as if Goons are incapable of handling us. This whole "roguing thing" to better suit your own picture really isn't working. The public isn't buying it.

[Diogenes]

[quote name='Moridin' timestamp='1285799635' post='2468821']
I am saying exactly that, because the term "alliance of rogues" is an oxymoron. I am curious when the situation you just described actually occurred though; I can remember taking part in something like that a couple years ago, but you're misrepresenting the current situation. This wasn't for the purpose of "creating mischief" (though a member of the Ninjas can correct me if I'm wrong on that count).
[/quote]

No definition of "[url=http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rogue]rogue[/url]" conflicts with any definition of "[url=http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/alliance]alliance[/url]". Call or consider the Ninjas whatever you like though; the fact is that they declared war upon the GOONS with little justification and are facing retaliation as a consequence of that.