Ninja Election Announcement

[RePePe]

No matter the outcome, the Ninjas come out a winner here.

I don't know many of you all that well, but I salute your bravery and honor.

[Charles Stuart]

Ninjas, I salute you.

I only see one DoW, are we missing a few?

[nutkase]

[quote name='potato' timestamp='1285757696' post='2468154']
Everybody knew a day before your attack.



I, personnally, still see you as rogues. Seeing as I'm not Mil Comm or Archon, it's not my call to decide whether or not we treat you as a proper alliance or not. That being said, that's not the point of my previous comment: would it make you shut up if we imagined "going rogue on GOONS" was replaced by "going to attack GOONS"?
[/quote]

Yet a lot of GOONS nation were not ready when we attacked, interesting.

What I want is to see Umbrella, PC, MK and AO post a DoW on us.

Also what is your definition of a rogue?

Edited September 29, 2010 by nutkase

[daggarz]

GOONs are stupid. I don't think I have ever had a more facepalming conversation with any other alliance.. except long ago when I was talking to the idiots in tC, no im not relating them. tC had the decency to pretend to be.. decent. GOONS outright admit they are $%&@heads and their allies don't seem to care.
More power to them I guess.. but I feel like morons have too much power in this verse.

o/ Ninjas

[Drizuz]

[quote name='potato' timestamp='1285757696' post='2468154']
Everybody knew a day before your attack.
[/quote]

I guess both my targets didn't get the memo cause they were both sitting un-militarized and not on at update.

[Clash]

[quote name='potato' timestamp='1285757153' post='2468148']
The image was too strong for you? I'll simplify it a bit more then: [b]GOONS didn't have a choice[/b]. It was leaked that The Ninjas were going rogue on GOONS. Thus, who ever was attacking our allies was going to taste our nukes, regardless of AA, justification or whatever terrible e-lawyering you're trying to do.[/quote]
The use of the word "rogue" has been incorrect in this case. Much like the rest of your post. This post is even funnier in light of the whole "GOONS didn't make TN attack them" argument. Now it's GOONS who didn't have a choice, right? *eyeroll*

Neither is true of course, the truth is this:
GOONS asked TN to attack them. TN did. GOONS's allies are now jumping in for the curbstomp.
No roguing involved, so stuff that tripe.

The e-lawyering claim is silly, no such thing here. I'm calling the people who masquerade curbstomps as honorable defenses, cowards. It's pretty straight up. GOONS can fight their own battles, especially the ones they ask for. Sureeee you can the excuse that you're "defending an ally" even though it's one who hardly needed it. The truth is you just wanted to get in a nice curbstomp. Which part is confusing you, or was that image too strong for you?

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1285757242' post='2468149']I actually agree with you that GOONS did not require any help for an eventual victory, it appears they are getting some anyway. Like me, I suspect they object to that ludicrous notion of the 1v1 battle.
[/quote]
Basically, I find the notion of a curbstomp to be [s]equally ludicrous[/s] cowardly.
Especially in circumstances where the stompers asked for a war from the stompees.

Quit trying to make it more complex than that.

[SpectreTehDestroyer]

Best of luck Ninjas.

o/ Ninjas

Engel

[D34th]

Looks like that the new definition of rogue is declare an offensive war, what people arguing that seen to forgot is that some of their allies would be considered rogues as well under this new definition. The old double standards mentality...

[Phetion]

[quote name='Clash' timestamp='1285758679' post='2468163']
The use of the word "rogue" has been incorrect in this case. Much like the rest of your post. This post is even funnier in light of the whole "GOONS didn't make TN attack them" argument. Now it's GOONS who didn't have a choice, right? *eyeroll*

Neither is true of course, the truth is this:
GOONS asked TN to attack them. TN did. GOONS's allies are now jumping in for the curbstomp.
No roguing involved, so stuff that tripe.

The e-lawyering claim is silly, no such thing here. I'm calling the people who masquerade curbstomps as honorable defenses, cowards. It's pretty straight up. GOONS can fight their own battles, especially the ones they ask for. Sureeee you can the excuse that you're "defending an ally" even though it's one who hardly needed it. The truth is you just wanted to get in a nice curbstomp. Which part is confusing you, or was that image too strong for you?


Basically, I find the notion of a curbstomp to be [s]equally ludicrous[/s] cowardly.
Especially in circumstances where the stompers asked for a war from the stompees.

Quit trying to make it more complex than that.
[/quote]


Why on earth would you not maximise your defensive capabilities? It makes literally no sense not to take any help offered, never mind help that is technically obligated.

Tell me, if 11 nations hit your alliance and they were all above 30k NS, would you not call your allies in to help deal with them? (disregarding the fact that GOONS never had to ask, and likely never will have to ask with the allies they've chosen).

It's common sense to utilise what you've got, you'd be letting your alliance and your allies down by not doing so.

[Drizuz]

[quote name='Phetion' timestamp='1285760204' post='2468173']
Why on earth would you not maximise your defensive capabilities? It makes literally no sense not to take any help offered, never mind help that is technically obligated.

Tell me, if 11 nations hit your alliance and they were all above 30k NS, would you not call your allies in to help deal with them? (disregarding the fact that GOONS never had to ask, and likely never will have to ask with the allies they've chosen).

It's common sense to utilise what you've got, you'd be letting your alliance and your allies down by not doing so.
[/quote]

Then why is AntiVietCong still untouched???? but one of non-attacking 30k NS get's attacked by one GOONS + allies. Maybe GOONS should send that "help" towards where it's needed in the upper Tier not our lower ones (specially versus The Ninja in lower tier that didn't even attack GOONS)

Edited September 29, 2010 by Drizuz

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Jakome' timestamp='1285749807' post='2468091']
There are many many many ways to attack GOONS on the forums.....MANY. But calling us cowards because we have allies that want in is hardly a good one. If anything it is a compliment to the great friends and allies we have made.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Bah. Rubbish. Excuses, excuses, excuses. If I were leading GOONS I'd not have only requested that allies stay out of this, I'd have demanded it and made damn sure they understood there'd be consequences for coming in. Then again, if I were leading GOONS this mess wouldn't exist in the first place for the simple fact that I do not tolerate thuggery.[/color]

[Sandwich Controversy]

what consequences could goons impose on mk I really want to know

[der_ko]

Excellent, this should be great fun. Just need to fix my trades so I can fight. D:

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1285760771' post='2468177']
what consequences could goons impose on mk I really want to know
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]If I were leading GOONS I'd either cancel the treaty or attack MK outright for ignoring my request to stay out. Fortunately for you, however, I am not leading GOONS. So enjoy your hired thugs and lackey, your precious GOONS. They could care less what you do so long as you back them up regardless of how poorly they're acting.[/color]

[Banksy]

[quote name='Drizuz' timestamp='1285758498' post='2468162']
I guess both my targets didn't get the memo cause they were both sitting un-militarized and not on at update.
[/quote]
Full alliance mobilisation for 11 nations? Seems like overkill.

[quote name='Clash' timestamp='1285758679' post='2468163']
Basically, I find the notion of a curbstomp to be [s]equally ludicrous[/s] cowardly.
Especially in circumstances where the stompers asked for a war from the stompees.

Quit trying to make it more complex than that.
[/quote]
See, i'm not the one attempting to make this complex. Let's create an example.

Alliance A attacks Alliance B who has a MDP with Alliance C. Alliance C attacks alliance A, citing the previously mentioned MDP.

This is quite a simple scenario. And you know what, it's what just happened.

You are the one trying to make this 'complex.' You are labelling this a 'curbstomp.' By curbstomp i'll assume you mean GOONS and co will be the eventual winners. Now, this puzzles me. By saying that because of the allies entering, this is now a curbstomp, you are implying that had they not entered, GOONS would lose (or perhaps it would be a fair fight) which is clearly untrue when the Ninjas are an eleven man alliance (albeit a competent one) whereas GOONS are rather larger. All I can take from this assertion of yours is that it is cowardly to win which i'm sure is very honourable, but it's also very stupid.

And then you go back to your old favourite, the 'stompers asking for the war.' Somehow this is supposed to make the actions of the GOONS allies illegitimate? They followed a MDP, this is standard procedure on Bob. Had GOONS led the assault against the Ninjas then i'm sure you would be correct, but you continue to persist with the notion that because GOONS called out the Ninjas they Ninjas had no free will and were, therefore, the defenders in the conflict. GOONS allies attacked the Ninjas because of their MDP.

Edited September 29, 2010 by Banksy

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

[quote name='Drizuz' timestamp='1285760533' post='2468174']
Then why is AntiVietCong still untouched???? but one of non-attacking 30k NS get's attacked by one GOONS + allies. Maybe GOONS should send that "help" towards where it's needed in the upper Tier not our lower ones (specially versus The Ninja in lower tier that didn't even attack GOONS)
[/quote]
I haven't engaged Mr VietCong's nation, as mine is in a state of nuclear anarchy at the moment. If he'd like to oblige me by declaring war however, I'd be most appreciative

Edited September 29, 2010 by Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz

[nutkase]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1285761012' post='2468181']
See, i'm not the one attempting to make this complex. Let's create an example.

Alliance A attacks Alliance B who has a MDP with Alliance C. Alliance C attacks alliance A, citing the previously mentioned MDP.

This is quite a simple scenario. And you know what, it's what just happened.

You are the one trying to make this 'complex.' You are labelling this a 'curbstomp.' By curbstomp i'll assume you mean GOONS and co will be the eventual winners. Now, this puzzles me. By saying that because of the allies entering, this is now a curbstomp, you are implying that had they not entered, GOONS would lose (or perhaps it would be a fair fight) which is clearly untrue when the Ninjas are an eleven man alliance (albeit a competent one) whereas GOONS are rather larger. All I can take from this assertion of yours is that it is cowardly to win which i'm sure is very honourable, but it's also very stupid.

And then you go back to your old favourite, the 'stompers asking for the war.' Somehow this is supposed to make the actions of the GOONS allies illegitimate? They followed a MDP, this is standard procedure on Bob. Had GOONS led the assault against the Ninjas then i'm sure you would be correct, but you continue to persist with the notion that because GOONS called out the Ninjas they Ninjas had no free will and were, therefore, the defenders in the conflict. GOONS allies attacked the Ninjas because of their MDP.
[/quote]

Actually none of this has been followed nor have MK and other allies cited anything, mainly by not posting a DoW.

[Phetion]

[quote name='Drizuz' timestamp='1285760533' post='2468174']
Then why is AntiVietCong still untouched???? but one of non-attacking 30k NS get's attacked by one GOONS + allies. Maybe GOONS should send that "help" towards where it's needed in the upper Tier not our lower ones (specially versus The Ninja in lower tier that didn't even attack GOONS)
[/quote]


He'll be attacked in due course I imagine. Most of the nations below him have been attacked by GOONS/GOONS allies, and they're much more of a direct threat as they are actually engaging GOONS nations.

Right now he can only declare on one GOONS nation by the looks of it, (I'm not sure how far the ranges are now-a-days, it's been a while since my nation was that large) whereas the rest can declare on more nations. Priorities. Whilst it would be ideal to anarchy him before he can declare anywhere, as I discuss in the next paragraph, their may not be nations available right now to attack.

That, and their allies may not have a nation ready only 6 hours after the attack, or perhaps they're waiting to coordinate at update, y'know since, he is a large nation and all. Also, this time of day isn't exactly ideal for the average ruler. There's many valid reasons why they could be waiting, or preparing.

[Banksy]

[quote name='nutkase' timestamp='1285761320' post='2468184']
Actually none of this has been followed nor have MK and other allies cited anything, mainly by not posting a DoW.
[/quote]
Why post a DoW? By the terms of their MDPs they will automatically be at war with you. Furthermore, formalities like a DoW aren't required.

That said, I suspect your size may even class you as a 'non-alliance' in the eyes of many of your attackers.

[Goldie]

[quote name='Xiphosis' timestamp='1285746032' post='2468059']
Blah blah self-justification blah blah. Rogues, no more or less than any other rogues from any era of the game.
[/quote]

The Ninjas are an alliance, and a fine one at that. While I am sad to see them choose this path, friends attacking friends, I know that this is what they wanted so I should be happy for them, not sad.

[Sardonic]

Alright since there's apparently some debate on this issue I'll spell it out. We consider the Ninjas an alliance, not a very good alliance, but an alliance nonetheless.

Even still, I hope you guys realize what you've gotten yourselves into, if you truly do not intend to disband. We are not the type to say live and let live and grant white peace. We are going to be fighting you for a very, very long time, and when we're finally ready to entertain the notion of peace, you're going to be paying us for a very, very long time.

Edited September 29, 2010 by Sardonic

[Boywunda]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1285738320' post='2467855']
[color="#0000FF"]Are you really this self-deluding into thinking that you're not bad guys? GOONS has frequently been among the most unnecessarily abrasive, hostile, and abusive to tech raid victims, out of all raiding alliances. You simply have no class, and you quite like demeaning your victims. Face, you're guilty of that and so much more. Time to man up and take what you've earned.[/color]
[/quote]
You still didn't answer my question. When did we call our victims weak or cowards? Your opinion on us being bad guys is just that...an opinion, but we don't go around calling people weak and cowards...unless they hide behind peace mode. That's a cowardly act. If they go o another alliance for help, that's called being smart, not cowardly.

Yes, we tech raid. To benefit ourselves at the expense of the un-protected. If that makes us bad guys, well then bad guys we are.

[Edifice]

Thanks for bring a small dose of drama back into our world before (I assume) you guys plan your exit from this world.

[Reptyler]

[quote name='Xiphosis' timestamp='1285746032' post='2468059']
Blah blah self-justification blah blah. Rogues, no more or less than any other rogues from any era of the game.
[/quote]
I love you Xippo but I disagree. Someone as distinguished as Ejay went about and made a DoE, had a protectorate with a sanctioned alliance, upgraded that protectorate to a treaty with a sanctioned alliance, and conducted their alliance affairs like, you know, an actual alliance. This isn't some grouping that just dropped out of another alliance, gathered under one AA and said GOGO ATTACK GONS NOW. What we have here is a legitimate alliance, by every measure that I can think of, demanding that people recognize them as such.
[quote name='Aurion' timestamp='1285740468' post='2467949']
I'm torn. On the one hand, I like Ejay. On the other, everyone posting !@#$ about "HOW DARE GOONS' ALLIES ATTACK THEIR ENEMIES YOU ARE COWARDS RAAAAR" are complete idiots.
[/quote]
My thoughts exactly, sir.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1285762018' post='2468189']
Alright since there's apparently some debate on this issue I'll spell it out. We consider the Ninjas an alliance, not a very good alliance, but an alliance nonetheless.

Even still, I hope you guys realize what you've gotten yourselves into, if you truly do not intend to disband. We are not the type to say live and let live and grant white peace. We are going to be fighting you for a very, very long time, and when we're finally ready to entertain the notion of peace, you're going to be paying us for a very, very long time.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Ooh, aren't you tough? Ninjas did attack yes, however, keeping them at war for months on end, and then having them pay until its been a year or more since this DoW before it's finally over, that is excessively harsh. Granted, I know you're going to disagree with me, but you know, it ultimately comes down to the simple human decency question that I raised earlier. No, GOONS does not have it.[/color]