GOONS DoW Announcement

[JT Jag]

[quote name='Bavaricar' timestamp='1284276432' post='2450768']
Apparently that tricky Methrage got me to aid him, too. Does this mean I am at war with the goonies now?

Please tell me I am not on the EoG PZI list too?
[/quote]We'll take you off the PZI list as long as you stop saying it's permanent.

Otherwise we ZI you forever for lieing.

[Bavaricar]

[quote name='JT Jag' timestamp='1284277644' post='2450783']
We'll take you off the PZI list as long as you stop saying it's permanent.

Otherwise we ZI you forever for lieing.
[/quote]

You'll never see me visit your forums to submit to your "mercy board" so now, what shall we call this?

Edited September 12, 2010 by Bavaricar

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='JT Jag' timestamp='1284277644' post='2450783']
We'll take you off the PZI list as long as you stop saying it's permanent.

Otherwise we ZI you forever for lieing.
[/quote]
Do I get off the PZI list as well?

[Beefspari]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1284276651' post='2450770']
I haven't lied to anyone and guess who they would probably be more pissed at? The one selling them tech or the ones trying to force them to pay a huge undeserved sum of money for taking part in a tech deal? If anything they should be happy with me for doing damage to the ones trying to extort money from them.
[/quote]
I love your circular logic. Yes, I'm sure alliances will enjoy you retroactively attacking the people who are "extorting" them which they wouldn't be doing if not for your actions in the first place. I'm sure people are lining up to have you save them from something that you caused. I may have to use that in the next tech raid argument to note that we're saving people from being tech raided by granting them peace.

EDIT: Typo.

Edited September 12, 2010 by Beefspari

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1284278131' post='2450787']
I love your circular logic. Yes, I'm sure alliances will enjoy you retroactively attacking the people who are "extorting" them which they wouldn't be doing if not for your actions in the first place. I'm sure people are lining up to have you save them from something that you caused. I may have to use that in the next tech raid argument to note that we're saving people from being tech raided by granting them peace.

EDIT: Typo.
[/quote]
I think your attacks or claims for reps from them are unjustified and that's partially why I'm fighting you guys, so its your fault you cause whatever you do to them. Its interesting you would blame me for your actions, I thought you were proud of how high the extortion you GOONS go for and pride yourselves on your sadism when dealing with others?

Regardless I just sell tech, which is victimless.

Edited September 12, 2010 by Methrage

[mrwuss]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1284270422' post='2450696']
You have just threatened Valhalla. Are you certain that you want to go there?
[/quote]

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[Haquertal]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1284278542' post='2450790']
I think your attacks or claims for reps from them are unjustified and that's partially why I'm fighting you guys, so its your fault you cause whatever you do to them. Its interesting you would blame me for your actions, I thought you were proud of how high the extortion you GOONS go for and pride yourselves on your sadism when dealing with others?

Regardless I just sell tech, which is victimless.
[/quote]

I honestly don't even know what point you're trying to make here other than "I'm high and mighty and you're GOONS "

[Beefspari]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1284278542' post='2450790']
Regardless I just sell tech, which is victimless.
[/quote]
You REALLY think that doing tech deals with people knowing full well that it will lead to them committing a direct act of war against an alliance is victimless? Are you really willing to hurt countless nations and alliances just to try and prove a point that no one agrees with you on? You aren't helping anyone. You claim to be saving them from a situation that you caused in the first place. The only one putting them in harm's way is you. It's the responsibility of GOONS (and every alliance ever created) to act upon people aiding our enemies. Knowing this, you trick people into aiding you in a misguided attempt to make us out to be bad guys. Good luck with that.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Bavaricar' timestamp='1284277858' post='2450785']
You'll never see me visit your forums to submit to your "mercy board" so now, what shall we call this?
[/quote]
"Your funeral". As to Methrage, have you no remorse for the people who have paid for your mischief?

[Hadrian]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1284305227' post='2450965']
"Your funeral". [b]As to Methrage, have you no remorse for the people who have paid for your mischief?[/b]
[/quote]

I cannot tell you how hard I laughed at that statement, seeing as it comes from you.

Seriously, I was like this x 3mil.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1284304864' post='2450959']
You REALLY think that doing tech deals with people knowing full well that it will lead to them committing a direct act of war against an alliance is victimless? Are you really willing to hurt countless nations and alliances just to try and prove a point that no one agrees with you on? You aren't helping anyone. You claim to be saving them from a situation that you caused in the first place. The only one putting them in harm's way is you. It's the responsibility of GOONS (and every alliance ever created) to act upon people aiding our enemies. Knowing this, you trick people into aiding you in a misguided attempt to make us out to be bad guys. Good luck with that.
[/quote]
I don't even consider you guys a legitimate alliance, you're a bunch of rogues banding together so you can more effectively commit acts of wars against a large amount of nations who don't stand a chance. Tech raiders = rogues in my opinion and since they claim the right to attacks nations as they please I consider the same applies to other nations attacking you guys. Since you've declared war on pretty much all of CN with your tech raiding policy of claiming the right to attack others, any attacks on you guys can easily be a preemptive defensive strike as its your policy to attack others unprovoked.

[Dr Beefstupid]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1284305534' post='2450971']
Tech raiders = rogues in my opinion[/quote]

Methrage just defined every alliance that tech raids as rogues. That's great to know.

Methrage, even if you don't agree with our stance, you know that we made an announcement that anyone aiding you while you're at war with us will be an act of war. Trying to start a tech deal and not letting people know this little fact is pretty dishonest.

Let me give you an allegory. Say there's a regime that is systematically persecuting members of a specific race and you are protecting some of these victims. Let's say you can't protect them any longer and decide you need to take them somewhere else, so you offer to pay someone to transport them out of the country. If you fail to tell them that they're harbouring fugitives you're putting their life at risk even if you don't think it's fair that the fugitives are being persecuted.

I am not using this allegory to say that GOONS is in the wrong for treating aid against you as an act of war. I'm saying that even if what we were doing was totally unjust, it's shady and scammy for you to try to make tech deals and refuse to disclose that anyone who does such with you will be committing an act of war.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Dr Beefstupid' timestamp='1284307149' post='2450994']
Methrage just defined every alliance that tech raids as rogues. That's great to know.
[/quote]
I'm glad I was able to help.

[Fernando12]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1284305534' post='2450971']
I don't even consider you guys a legitimate alliance, you're a bunch of rogues banding together so you can more effectively commit acts of wars against a large amount of nations who don't stand a chance. Tech raiders = rogues in my opinion and since they claim the right to attacks nations as they please I consider the same applies to other nations attacking you guys. Since you've declared war on pretty much all of CN with your tech raiding policy of claiming the right to attack others, any attacks on you guys can easily be a preemptive defensive strike as its your policy to attack others unprovoked.
[/quote]
Tech Raiders = Rogues

I tend to agree with you. I have raided so I'm not innocent here. But tech raiding is normal around here. If a power rose that had no one to counter it and said that raiding is now illegal on Planet Bob and any nation or alliance doing it would be rolled for it [i]and[/i] they actually went and carried out war against such nations or alliances to put a stop to it then in time the thinking around here would change to your point of view. But, this is 99.99% likely never to happen so you have to deal with the situation as it exists. GOONS raids because its accepted so at this point in time, no they are not committing acts of war and no one is likely ever to use a pre-emptive defensive strike to deal with them. When it happened before it didn't go very well.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1284307900' post='2451006']
Tech Raiders = Rogues

I tend to agree with you. I have raided so I'm not innocent here. But tech raiding is normal around here. If a power rose that had no one to counter it and said that raiding is now illegal on Planet Bob and any nation or alliance doing it would be rolled for it [i]and[/i] they actually went and carried out war against such nations or alliances to put a stop to it then in time the thinking around here would change to your point of view. But, this is 99.99% likely never to happen so you have to deal with the situation as it exists. GOONS raids because its accepted so at this point in time, no they are not committing acts of war and no one is likely ever to use a pre-emptive defensive strike to deal with them. When it happened before it didn't go very well.
[/quote]
GOONS will be made an example of for being the worst of them and that will be the beginning of change. Alliances like GOONS make sure to bring to a lot of attention to how abusive their tech raiding policies are and are getting hit by a gradually increasing number of nations for it. The more GOONS brag about how they can get away with tech raiding and PZI because might makes right the quicker they will be destroyed, but for an alliance built upon being as unjust as possible it doesn't seem likely they will change until destroyed.

Edited September 12, 2010 by Methrage

[Beefspari]

Methrage, even in your incredibly flawed view that a 300-man alliance is entirely made up of rogues, you're willingly throwing people under a bus by luring them into doing tech deals with you. Even if you consider us rogues, you're tricking people into our direct path by not telling them the whole story.

You are intentionally drawing innocents into a conflict purely so you can profit from them. If I was to define the word scum in the dictionary, it would include such an act. If you ever had a reputation, you are working very hard to destroy it.

[Fernando12]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1284308261' post='2451013']
GOONS will be made an example of for being the worst of them and that will be the beginning of change. Alliances like GOONS make sure to bring to a lot of attention to how abusive their tech raiding policies are and are getting hit by a gradually increasing number of nations for it. The more GOONS brag about how they can get away with tech raiding and PZI because might makes right the quicker they will be destroyed, but for an alliance built upon being as unjust as possible it doesn't seem likely they will change until destroyed.
[/quote]
If you call 4 years eventually then you may be correct. But I don't see it.

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1284308544' post='2451017']
Methrage, even in your incredibly flawed view that a 300-man alliance is entirely made up of rogues, you're willingly throwing people under a bus by luring them into doing tech deals with you. Even if you consider us rogues, you're tricking people into our direct path by not telling them the whole story.

You are intentionally drawing innocents into a conflict purely so you can profit from them. If I was to define the word scum in the dictionary, it would include such an act. If you ever had a reputation, you are working very hard to destroy it.
[/quote]
Beef, here I have to differ with you. If you are saying that those that deal with Methrage are unaware of it being an act of war then you all can take action and message the nation and tell them not to complete the deal until after the war is over or to complete the deal but just not renew it.

You need to show some leniency to those that deserve it if these nations are new. If they are older and have had the time to learn the ways of bob, then I agree that you can take action against them.

[Udelar Johnson]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1284308544' post='2451017']
Methrage, even in your incredibly flawed view that a 300-man alliance is entirely made up of rogues, you're willingly throwing people under a bus by luring them into doing tech deals with you. Even if you consider us rogues, you're tricking people into our direct path by not telling them the whole story.

You are intentionally drawing innocents into a conflict purely so you can profit from them. If I was to define the word scum in the dictionary, it would include such an act. If you ever had a reputation, you are working very hard to destroy it.
[/quote]
Don't worry, the usual "moralist" brigade of double-talking sycophants will have no problem rationalizing his actions away. Personally, I'm looking forward to the next round of arguments; this one was becoming tiresome.

[Beefspari]

[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1284309335' post='2451028']
Beef, here I have to differ with you. If you are saying that those that deal with Methrage are unaware of it being an act of war then you all can take action and message the nation and tell them not to complete the deal until after the war is over or to complete the deal but just not renew it.

You need to show some leniency to those that deserve it if these nations are new. If they are older and have had the time to learn the ways of bob, then I agree that you can take action against them.
[/quote]
We already do this. If aid is still pending, we request politely that the people cancel it because we're at war with that nation. I've already personally gotten aid cancelled that was being sent to Methrage as well as some UOKMB guys. However, Methrage is quick to take aid.

Additionally, Methrage deals in places where we can't let people know it's an act of war. He goes out of his way to make sure that the people he's dealing with don't know they're getting themselves into trouble. If you're curious what I mean, shoot me a PM.

[Mandolus]

Methrage, you are a liar and a scammer. How exactly do you plan to be able to pay off this tech deal when you lose all the money in your petty war against us?

You get all mad when we make a joke chatlog that "slanders" you and then you go and pull this? Guess what, buddy. We aren't the ones hurting your reputation. We don't even need to.

Edited September 12, 2010 by Mandolus

[Dr Beefstupid]

[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1284309335' post='2451028']
You need to show some leniency to those that deserve it if these nations are new. If they are older and have had the time to learn the ways of bob, then I agree that you can take action against them.
[/quote]

New nations tend to not be in the market for buying tech. They usually sell tech.

I'm sure if there are innocent circumstances they can be taken into account, but we can't just let anyone off the hook due to ignorance, or soon everyone will be sending war aid and pretending they didn't know any better.

[chefjoe]

[quote name='Biazt' timestamp='1284271395' post='2450713']
Oh no, not the Valhallan war machine! If you'll excuse me I need to pay $90m to Methrage to go rogue on Valhalla
[/quote]

You are right, GOONS warmachine is much more effective.

We were never able to beat ourselves into what amounted to disbandment for over a yr.

We shall try better next time I promise...

Edited September 12, 2010 by chefjoe

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1284308544' post='2451017']
Methrage, even in your incredibly flawed view that a 300-man alliance is entirely made up of rogues, you're willingly throwing people under a bus by luring them into doing tech deals with you. Even if you consider us rogues, you're tricking people into our direct path by not telling them the whole story.
[/quote]
While I don't agree with him here, your counterargument that you have 300 nations so you're not full of rogues is not a good one; Illuminati was a 300-nation alliance which really only consisted of rogues and ghosts.

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='chefjoe' timestamp='1284311630' post='2451098']
We were never able to beat ourselves into what amounted to disbandment for over a yr.
[/quote]

No, you guys merely beat yourselves into complete and utter irrelevance instead.

[chefjoe]

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1284311919' post='2451103']
No, you guys merely beat yourselves into complete and utter irrelevance instead.
[/quote]

So much so that you guys talk about us, try to plan 'jokes' on us(which we handedly turned back around and exploded back on you) and generaly try to marginalize and minimize us in your posts.

Your words above may try and say one thing, but your posts and actions show otherwise imo

Edited September 12, 2010 by chefjoe