GRL cap reached, once again

[Mathias]

I'm getting so tired of people !@#$%*ing about this. GRL is going to cap during almost, if not every war, get used to it.

Edited August 19, 2010 by Mathias

[Qaianna]

[quote name='flak attack' timestamp='1282180748' post='2422339']
No there won't be. What are you going to do? Get even more alliances to declare on the loser (the group that almost universally first strikes)? 99% of the time the first strike is done because the group is already so outnumbered they can't do any sort of damage without them anyway.
[/quote]
Have they normally been the ones to first strike in history? I thought those tended to be the aggressors. Then again, most of my 'early times' were when One Vision and the Continuum frowned on nuclear exchanges; sadly, culture seems to be more than approving of them anymore.

[flak attack]

[quote name='Qaianna' timestamp='1282194348' post='2422714']
Have they normally been the ones to first strike in history? I thought those tended to be the aggressors. Then again, most of my 'early times' were when One Vision and the Continuum frowned on nuclear exchanges; sadly, culture seems to be more than approving of them anymore.
[/quote]
NPO, TPF and \m/ all started nuking in the past few. I dunno if CnG or TOP actually launched the first nuke, but it doesn't really matter since we both knew that's where it was going in the first place.

[Qaianna]

[quote name='flak attack' timestamp='1282195167' post='2422735']
NPO, TPF and \m/ all started nuking in the past few. I dunno if CnG or TOP actually launched the first nuke, but it doesn't really matter since we both knew that's where it was going in the first place.
[/quote]
Would it then be more the aggressor or the defender firing first? I was thinking more of those lines.

[Adolph Mussolini]

I agree. Stop this nuclear holocaust before everyone becomes mutated!

[kriekfreak]

Uncap GRL to hurt the neutrals pls.

[Finnish Commie]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1282172957' post='2422152']
Both of these statements are true. If the cap was high enough that the max GRL did serious damage to everyone, including the alliances that were starting it, there'd be some incentive not to reach it. Right now you are party to creating a GRL of 5 and everyone shrugs their shoulders and gets on with collecting and paying bills, and there's no political fallout from it. With an uncapped GRL you'd actually be bill-locking nations and running them to deletion, [b]including the people who were nuking[/b], so there'd be a direct personal incentive not to let things get that bad. But even with an increased cap (10 maybe?) you'd be doing enough damage to the economies of uninvolved alliances that it could have political effects.
[/quote]

The fact just is that an alliance will exchange short term benefits (nuking their enemies into oblivion) with long term benefits (low GRL and good enviroment).
If alliance A at war with alliance B didn't use nukes and then B decided to use nukes... Its really a prisoner's dilemma, unless we get another "For the Love of God, Think of the Children!" going on. Until then us uninvolved will just have to suffer from the byproducts of war

[Alex the Great1]

whats the point of nukes if if noones man enough to use them? thats why this is a game so people can die and it doesnt matter. uncapping it would be fun

[Seipher Caim]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1282172957' post='2422152']
Both of these statements are true. If the cap was high enough that the max GRL did serious damage to everyone, including the alliances that were starting it, there'd be some incentive not to reach it. Right now you are party to creating a GRL of 5 and everyone shrugs their shoulders and gets on with collecting and paying bills, and there's no political fallout from it. With an uncapped GRL you'd actually be bill-locking nations and running them to deletion, [b]including the people who were nuking[/b], so there'd be a direct personal incentive not to let things get that bad. But even with an increased cap (10 maybe?) you'd be doing enough damage to the economies of uninvolved alliances that it could have political effects.
[/quote]

I think we would be facing a classic free-rider problem.
Everyone would be better off with a lower GRL but individual incentives may not work. Call it "prisonner dilemma" or "non zero sum game" but we would reach a critical situation that would require the creation of new regulation mechanism and more powerful sanctions mechanism. This would clearly give more power to senate for example and may enter into the writings of new treaties. There would be no easy solution to this change.
This would clearly chnage the way we are doing war.

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1282160731' post='2421883']
Uncap it so that there is some incentive to consider the consequences before pressing the happy button ...
[/quote]

You have hundreds of nation rulers day/night who declare wars on other nations for fun and to bust crap up, oh and for oh yeah, tech (actually probably third on their priority list along with cash and land) and you actually [i]expect[/i] these same players to refrain from nuking each other as their nations grow to prevent global bill lock and a reset?

You amuse me...causing thousands of nation rulers to quit who did [i]nothing[/i] but be on the same planet as a bunch of thoughtless clowns is just silly.

[i]OOC: Let's cut to the chase. Asking for GRL to be uncapped is asking for a server reset. Too many people have been playing the game too long to change their habits and the moment that there is a major war and someone starts to lose in a major way, they will light up the nukes and those on the receiving end will respond in kind. This is a fun game as is. Is it realistic in terms of nuclear weapons? Clearly not, at least in the cumulative effects of large number of nukes being detonated (actually nukes are abstracted out too far, IMHO, but that's another discussion for another topic). Uncapping the GRL may make nukes somewhat more realistic, but it is also a game breaker.[/i]

[Aurion]

The moaning about people's precious environment might be the single best part to any war.

Chill out and thank your lucky stars it's got a cap.

[Lukapaka]

[quote name='Aurion' timestamp='1282234915' post='2423178']
The moaning about people's precious environment might be the single best part to any war.

Chill out and thank your lucky stars it's got a cap.
[/quote]

I actually get a kick out of watching the GRL grow grow grow! I hope the next global war breaks all previous records. What did it peak at, in Clusterf#!@?

[Aurion]

[quote name='Lukapaka' timestamp='1282242675' post='2423304']
I actually get a kick out of watching the GRL grow grow grow! I hope the next global war breaks all previous records. What did it peak at, in Clusterf#!@?
[/quote]

I think it was 69.something.

[Czar Kiev]

Is there a graph of the historical GRL available?

[Alfred von Tirpitz]

I think it was awesome enough in the Cluster $%&@ war to have it in the Amazing Sanction Race. Antonio even designed a set of flags and pips for it.

The thing is no one seems to care till it reaches atleast in the late 20s. 5 is sort of par for the course for most tiny wars. And it is not all that bad compared to a nuke landing plonk in the middle of your nation. Even those dont really hurt much.

To put a curb on nuking would take away one of the genuine pleasures left on Planet Bob. To nuke and to be nuked, that is the grail for a lot of people.

[VeritasK]

It always amuses me when you see a comrade smile at you with blood dripping down there crown, and with a slight psychotic, sardonic smile say to you, "I'm Glowing."

[PhysicsJunky]

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1282207256' post='2422964']Uncap GRL to hurt the neutrals pls.[/quote]
The GRL hurts everybody fairly equally across the board. You could argue it hurts neutrals far less as they're far less likely to be thrown into bill lock or negative collections cycles than the warring participants, and they also tend to have a larger collection of wonders and improvements in regards to nation age. So in order for the radiation level to be bad enough to hurt the neutrals more than the warring alliances it would have to send nearly everybody into such dire straights they're forced to re-roll. All nuclear wars would last no shorter than 50 days and probably longer (the earliest all nuking nations would enter bill lock, plus the GRL reset) with a high level or re-rolling just to re-enter the fight. Which may not sound to bad for the warheads but has unintended consequences (OOC: such as rendering donations worthless)

[RePePe]

In said \m/, STA, and GGA isosceles love triangle, could you please tell me which are the congruent sides, and which the odd man out? And remember, diagrams are preferred, but not required.

[Sandler]

War is fun. The GRL reminds us that people are still having fun and CN is alive and kicking. I'll gladly eat a few three eyed fish in celebration of this.


[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1282167352' post='2422024']
Won't somebody think of the children?
[/quote]
to this. I laughed until I cried, Heft.

[SpoiL]

We don't go down alone.

[agafaba]

Completely unlocked no... but I think the cap should go higher than 5

[Fernando12]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1282160731' post='2421883']
Uncap it so that there is some incentive to consider the consequences before pressing the happy button ...
[/quote]
I agree with this. 10 would be good maybe higher.

[McShady511]

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[Jimby19]

We should just get rid of nukes and have nu-missiles with half the damage

[Zombie Glaucon]

[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1282161025' post='2421888']
...and leave that much damage available for people that don't care about growth? Not a good idea.
[/quote]

Easy to change how fast it scales up though.