Ragnarok Declaration of War

[TIEIXIAIS]

[quote name='Thorgrum' timestamp='1281347512' post='2407249']
Sure lets be perfectly frank, you are wrong. Its very simple, NSO committed an act of war against Ragnarok. Again to be frank, they had the opportunity not to do so, the choice was theirs they made it and here we are. No amount of spin is going to change the fact this had literally nothing to do with NSO treaty partners, so your edits for accuracy are correct for 1/2 of your sentence. It dosent have much to do with the pissant nation, it has to do with the NSO committing an act of war.

Want to edit it again for complete accuracy?
[/quote]

The escalation of it by RoK was highly unnecessary. Lets be 'frank' NSO and it's allies have absolutely no chance in defeating your 'karma' bloc. Why would they want a war with you? RoK could have very easily continued talks with NSO and had the issue resolved in a matter of days. It was a poor show and CB on RoK'S part. I understand your unwavering will to defend it though. Nothing wrong with being stubborn, tends to happen when your leaders make a Ad Hoc Decision.

[Mayzie]

[quote name='Eden Taylor' timestamp='1281308739' post='2404944']
This is really really dumb. But, best of luck.
[/quote]

This sums up my thoughts on the incident.

When did this place get so !@#$@#$ ridiculous that people can't even sort out a simple rogue situation without blowing it out of proportion and possibly into the next big war?

[R&R-Viking]

I love that so many people now don't consider the aiding of a rogue in wartime an act of war, when it's been considered an act of war for at least the four years I've been here. NSO and co. can talk about conspiracies all they want, this is about as rock solid a CB as we've seen on Planet Bob for quite some time.

Go get 'em!

Edited August 9, 2010 by Viking

[Nobody Expects]

Rok being muppets I see, not much of a surprise there.

[delendum]

[quote name='TIEIXIAIS' timestamp='1281348666' post='2407262']
The escalation of it by RoK was highly unnecessary. Lets be 'frank' NSO and it's allies have absolutely no chance in defeating your 'karma' bloc. Why would they want a war with you? RoK could have very easily continued talks with NSO and had the issue resolved in a matter of days. It was a poor show and CB on RoK'S part. I understand your unwavering will to defend it though. Nothing wrong with being stubborn, tends to happen when your leaders make a Ad Hoc Decision.
[/quote]

Good sir, in order to agree with your post I'd have to believe that the NSO is some sort of Forest Gump of Bob, as only that would somewhat justify why they'd need a few days to find a solution to what could have been sorted out in a few minutes, on the spot. However, they have proven that they are indeed capable of deciding on the spot, even if you could call their chosen path as being "retarded". The fact that they also seem to lack any cool number counting abilities would lead me to believe that they aren't autistic at all, they simply $%&@ed up.

I won't claim to understand how an alliance that doesn't want war does exactly what it knows will lead to war, but the choice was theirs. I really don't see what was suppose to go on during those few days you mention there, but if it makes you feel better, I'll say that I wished those days would've happened too! We were robbed!

[Thunder Strike]

[quote name='TIEIXIAIS' timestamp='1281348666' post='2407262']
The escalation of it by RoK was highly unnecessary. Lets be 'frank' NSO and it's allies have absolutely no chance in defeating your 'karma' bloc. Why would they want a war with you? RoK could have very easily continued talks with NSO and had the issue resolved in a matter of days. It was a poor show and CB on RoK'S part. I understand your unwavering will to defend it though. Nothing wrong with being stubborn, tends to happen when your leaders make a Ad Hoc Decision.
[/quote]

You mean the escalation by NSO?

NSO has numerous opportunities to stop this from becoming a big deal. Instead they chose to do one of the few things that could turn it into a big deal. Talk about stupidity.

Don't forget NSO is Karma as well.

[Charles Stuart]

[quote name='uaciaut' timestamp='1281339017' post='2407053']
.
Hell let's see some linkings to your curbstomps, i want to compare and laugh it out.

[/quote]

I wasn't aware NPO did the aforementioned curbstomps on their own. I believe the expression goes something like "pot kettle?".

[Megamickel]

Spill many pints of your enemy's blood. Hail to our allies.

[Keres]

I cant help but laugh at the conspiracy theories in this DW... so much so that I cant just quote one person, instead ill just laugh at all the idiots screaming that this war is just to drag *insert irrelevant alliance here* to war...

Guys just take off those tinfoil hats, it makes you all look so stupid, we have a CB, that's rock solid, that the "other side" has no business criticizing since it has been used before, by them... many times over apparently... so really all your offended and appalled grandmother routine... its getting old.

Edited August 9, 2010 by Deathistan

[Romulus Ceasar]

FINALLY! I have been wondering when somebody would finally put a hurtin' on NSO again. Couldn't be happier than I am right now, great job Hoo and good luck RoK.

[King Chill I]

[quote name='Eternal Enigma' timestamp='1281308687' post='2404939']
show halloween NPO their plastic lightsabers cant save them now
[/quote]

(one sentence that says everything).

/thread

Edited August 9, 2010 by King Chill I

[Jrenster]

[quote name='Earogema' timestamp='1281344271' post='2407197']
I should also mention that of course, even if NSO had declared that they would have obviously still lost, but I think it would have been pretty cool.

EDIT:
See, I really don't get why Rok has to present that evidence when anybody can check it, including NSO. Also 6 million is a huge amount at 4k NS. In fact, I'd say that 6 million is MUCH greater protection at 4k NS than 2 helper nations at the same level.

EDIT2: Actually upon further review, 4K NS is a bit bigger than what I remembered. 6 million is a pretty big help, but I'm not certain I'd take it over 2 nations at that size. I probably would, but still.
[/quote]

I think the story that is being sold around here is a little skewed from the truth. Yes, he was in two wars when he applied to our alliance. But that is not why we deemed it self-defense. The reason we called it self-defense was because there was evidence that he was being threatened with war and was being spied upon. Then we hear that he was impersonating government members. The story is a little bit more complicated than some random rogue declaring war on some alliance that no one has ever heard of until today.

And yes, I know what you're going to say. It doesn't change the fact that Heft sent the rogue war aid. Heft himself admits several times that he was being dumb. RV told Hoo personally that it was a mistake on Heft's part and that we were willing to negotiate. This fell on deaf ears and RoK ignored this.

[Penkala]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1281322112' post='2406124']
Fixed. You weren't terribly off. Just a few words out of place.

NSO was offering the branch of peace and diplomacy the whole time. A tiny drop of 6 million aid surely is not a situation beyond diplomatic discourse. RoK made themselves unavailable and unwilling to partake in diplomacy. They wanted this to become a war the instant the situation began. It was exactly what they were looking for.
[/quote]
What are you smoking? Yes, clearly they were holding out an olive branch when they did the one thing RoK said would lead to war. You cannot possibly be that dense.

[Jrenster]

[quote name='Penkala' timestamp='1281363362' post='2407416']
What are you smoking? Yes, clearly they were holding out an olive branch when they did the one thing RoK said would lead to war. You cannot possibly be that dense.
[/quote]

Yes. Heft dropped the ball. We told Hoo that. He's admitted several times that he was being dumb. LintWad and heggo were gone so they could not be there to chastise him. We tried to extend the olive branch after that, but it didn't go anywhere.

Edited August 9, 2010 by Jrenster

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Penkala' timestamp='1281363362' post='2407416']
What are you smoking? Yes, clearly they were holding out an olive branch when they did the one thing RoK said would lead to war. You cannot possibly be that dense.
[/quote]
See, the problem here is that you have the wrong pronoun. It's not "they" did, it's "he" did.

[Earth Shaker]

Eager to war always lead to having such poor CBs. No surprise though.

[Keres]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1281363733' post='2407432']
See, the problem here is that you have the wrong pronoun. It's not "they" did, it's "he" did.
[/quote]

and "he" was warned that aiding the rogue was an act of war, "he" knew that doing this risked his alliance's safety, "he" represented NSO, as such, the consequences for an act of war "he" committed ARE maybe his fault, doesn't change the fact that they still apply.

Edited August 9, 2010 by Deathistan

[Haflinger]

Actually, he didn't represent NSO. There's only one person who does that.

[Keres]

[quote name='Earth Shaker' timestamp='1281363987' post='2407440']
Eager to war always lead to having such poor CBs. No surprise though.
[/quote]

Funny since this CB has always been an accepted one... had it been from one of your allies, would you still have considered it a "poor" one? I highly doubt that, and your kind would be hailing it... Double standards much?

[Keres]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1281364392' post='2407455']
Actually, he didn't represent NSO. There's only one person who does that.
[/quote]

He was warned however and still went though with it, now they have to deal with his incompetence... Fail sith indeed... I thought weakness wasn't tolerated, some people just cant act the part really well... *sigh*

[King Chill I]

[IMG]http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss65/CNcomic/nsoparty.png[/IMG]

wasn't going for artistic greatness but it does the job.

[welshgazza1992]

o/ Ragnarok!

Onwards to Victory!!!!

[Wad of Lint]

[quote name='Deathistan' timestamp='1281364738' post='2407479']
He was warned however and still went though with it, now they have to deal with his incompetence... Fail sith indeed... I thought weakness wasn't tolerated, some people just cant act the part really well... *sigh*
[/quote]

And RoK was warned without proof of the spying, government impersonation, etc. etc. we would protect our members, yet they attacked him. Do not try to spin this, war was a fore-gone conclusion long before the aid.

[Bob Janova]

Wait, the argument is now that it was a personal action by Heft? Even though Heft was [i]officially representing NSO in talks at the time[/i] (the logs in the OP) and told, [i]officially[/i], that NSO should not aid the rogue, you want to claim that that same government official sending the aid was then simply personal? That's a very weak attempt at diversion. (Besides, Heft is still a member; normally if a government member 'goes rogue' and does something so stupid it's a CB, on his personal account, he gets kicked out for it.)

If Heft was not representing NSO then he should have been conducting official talks on behalf of the NSO, which he clearly was.

It seems to have mostly stopped now, but some of the baiting of NPO is very unclassy. This is a war caused by NSO idiocy, and you're just giving fuel to the conspiracy theorists by trying (very poorly) to bait NPO into it. Several of you are old enough to remember what happens to alliances that defend allies against a far superior force from 2008, so obviously NPO aren't going to subject themselves to that when they've been asked not to. Also, it's interesting to compare your tune now – 'it doesn't matter if they asked you not to defend, you still should' – with the justification for FOK and SF to escalate Bipolar – 'Polar asked you not to defend so your entrance is escalatory/aggressive'.

[quote]The escalation of it by RoK was highly unnecessary[/quote]
All war is unnecessary – whatever situation causes it can always be solved diplomatically, if both sides wish that to be the case. If everyone liked NPO enough, Karma would have been a diplomatic resolution, not a war – but that doesn't mean that war was wrong then, and it doesn't mean it is now, either. Here, you have an issue between two alliances that don't like each other (that's probably an understatement of NSO-SF relations), and one of which has a large military advantage. What incentive is there for RoK/SF [i]not[/i] to take out NSO when a good reason to do so emerges?

Let's be clear about this, the reason people complained about the Hegemonic 'curbstomps' is that various alliances within the Hegemony attacked enemies [i]without[/i] a good reason to do so. Yes, RoK have taken advantage of a situation to take out an enemy, but they have only done so [i]with[/i] a good reason, provided to them by NSO's brinksmanship. NSO did the one and only thing that they could do which would provoke a war.

If RoK, SF or any SG alliance really wanted a war with NSO and weren't bothered about CBs then they could have attacked at any time. The fact is, this was not expected to escalate to a war, NSO didn't have to take in a rogue with active aggressive wars, and they certainly didn't have to aid that rogue after being explicitly told that to do so is an act of war. If VE went around aiding rogues against IRON I bet you'd be singing a different tune – but we don't do that sort of thing because it's clearly provocatory (is that a word? ) and asking for trouble.

[Sir Keshav IV]

Well this war now seems like this to me:

RoK tells NSO there is a rogue but presents no proof
NSO aids the said "rogue"
RoK Dow's

It seems to be rather miscommunication from both sides, Hoo made his stance clear but he should have definitely shown NSO proof of all the transgression this dude has done and from the logs it seems he hasn't but NSO are in fault as well aiding the said rogue after Hoo clearly stated he would view aiding the rogue as an act of war which has been an accepted practice in CN for a long time. IT seems to me both sides are at fault here that is when I weigh up what both sides have done in this conflict. But I could be wrong ( as this is an outsiders point of view mostly ).

With that said good luck to RoK.

Edited August 9, 2010 by Sir Keshav IV