Is this what CN is coming to?

[Tromp]

[quote name='Kzoppistan' date='08 July 2010 - 01:18 AM' timestamp='1278544695' post='2362862']
You have to be the change you want to see. I know that sounds corny, but it's true. Really put yourself into the shoes of a leader of a nation and think about it. Very few people who are [s]great[/s] leaders ever wanted a moderate legacy. Imagine the hubris and ambition of those who think they are fit to lead and improve the standing of their followers.

To pull just a single example out of a rather large hat:

[b]Winston Churchill: [i]History will be kind to me for I intend to write it.[/i][/b]

Bold words. And even bolder sentiment.

I think every person should be plotting and scheming on how to advance their alliance, bloc, friends, or at least their own image. There is a finite amount of the important resources (i.e. warm bodies) so at all times you must think of how to get those bodies from other alliances into your own, or otherwise subjugate them to your ends.

Whether by conquest or stratagem.

If I had even a moderately reliable access to the internet, that's what I'd be doing.

Go for it.
[/quote]
I agree fully with this, especially because of the quote you gave as an example.
It has been my personal motto ever since I entered government more than a year ago now.

Faenor also has a good point. Why would anyone make an aggressive move nowadays? You'll quickly become isolated from the rest of the world.

Fernando, in this world the elites decide everything. And since in CN the community is shrinking, it is hard to make a difference if power is what you're seeking. The old guard won't give their positions up, so those who want change mostly end up founding their own alliance, thus making it even less likely anything will change.
If you truly want change, you have to be very cunning, have a lot of knowledge of FA and have the charisma/leadership abilities to be able to get the masses behind your cause.

[Balder]

[quote name='Tromp' date='07 July 2010 - 07:49 PM' timestamp='1278546535' post='2362898']

Fernando, in this world the elites decide everything. And since in CN the community is shrinking, it is hard to make a difference if power is what you're seeking. The old guard won't give their positions up, so those who want change mostly end up founding their own alliance, thus making it even less likely anything will change.
If you truly want change, you have to be very cunning, [b]have a lot of knowledge of FA[/b] and have the charisma/leadership abilities to be able to get the masses behind your cause.
[/quote]

I disagree with the bolded section, but the rest of the post was pretty on point.

Agreed.

[Prodigal Moon]

[quote name='Kzoppistan' date='07 July 2010 - 07:18 PM' timestamp='1278544695' post='2362862']
You have to be the change you want to see. I know that sounds corny, but it's true. Really put yourself into the shoes of a leader of a nation and think about it. Very few people who are [s]great[/s] leaders ever wanted a moderate legacy. Imagine the hubris and ambition of those who think they are fit to lead and improve the standing of their followers.

To pull just a single example out of a rather large hat:

[b]Winston Churchill: [i]History will be kind to me for I intend to write it.[/i][/b]

Bold words. And even bolder sentiment.

I think every person should be plotting and scheming on how to advance their alliance, bloc, friends, or at least their own image. There is a finite amount of the important resources (i.e. warm bodies) so at all times you must think of how to get those bodies from other alliances into your own, or otherwise subjugate them to your ends.

Whether by conquest or stratagem.

If I had even a moderately reliable access to the internet, that's what I'd be doing.

Go for it.
[/quote]
Can we get Admin to PM this to every member of the Cyberverse?

[Kzoppistan]

[quote name='Prodigal Moon' date='07 July 2010 - 09:08 PM' timestamp='1278547698' post='2362915']
Can we get Admin to PM this to every member of the Cyberverse?
[/quote]

Lol

We'd probably see a lot more micro-alliances doing the old crash and burn, but out of those that fail, more will be of the mind set that they can be the effectors of their own destinies. Not simply numbers of another alliance.

Even a small core of devoted people focused on a goal of rearranging the political-scape could do so if they coordinated and used strategy.

[Fallen Fool]

[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' date='07 July 2010 - 07:44 PM' timestamp='1278546274' post='2362893']
The drama is the fun part, not the actual war itself. When we have long wars, people always complain that they're boring and we need to get back to peace ASAP. Let them happen naturally. If you want a war, do something dramatic.
[/quote]You sir are correct.

The politics, the posting, and the life or death struggle are what makes large wars interesting, not clicking a few buttons or destroying a pixel or two.

Edited July 8, 2010 by Fallen Fool

[Cortath]

Alliances won't go 1v1. It's a zero sum game. Why waste strength on a battle you by definition don't really care about?

[jer]

Don't rely on others for your excitement, make your own. I'm sure you can think of something to occupy your time... be creative. There is no rule that says that you have to sit around being bored collecting taxes and paying bills until one of the big cheeses finally decides it's time for a bit of a bust up on the battlefield, so get to work and find out what kind of effects you can have on Planet Bob.

Edited July 8, 2010 by Aimee Mann

[Delta1212]

[quote name='Kzoppistan' date='07 July 2010 - 07:18 PM' timestamp='1278544695' post='2362862']
[b]Winston Churchill: [i]History will be kind to me for I intend to write it.[/i][/b]
[/quote]
Hilariously accurate statement, too. I'm actually bringing his history of the second world war to the beach next week. Started it a couple weeks ago and haven't had time to finish.

When that man comes up with a plan he really knows how to follow through on it.

[Delta1212]

[quote name='Fernando12' date='07 July 2010 - 07:13 PM' timestamp='1278544413' post='2362857']
Ok, sure thats exactly how wars happen. Like it or not, wars drive the very existence of this game. Why then is forum activity at its peak during wars? If people were here for political simming then the forums would be over loaded now since peace time is when the most politiking is going on? But its not the case is it Chey, so sorry you are wrong.
[/quote]
If people were interested in the fighting part of wars, why would they bother showing up on the forums? There may be more politking happening during peace time, but it happens a lot faster and more visibly in the lead up and opening to a war, making that the best time for people to get their drama fix if they only want to hang around when something is guaranteed to be happening. That's why people get bored and activity drops as wars extend, it becomes the status quo, things aren't changing very much anymore and the people who don't care so much about the minutia of the game go back to lurking or waiting for something interesting to happen again. War is a focal point because the things that surround wars are the same things that interest people, not because clicking the cruise missile button is intrinsically more exciting than clicking the buy infra button.

[Kzoppistan]

[quote name='Delta1212' date='07 July 2010 - 11:47 PM' timestamp='1278557244' post='2363037']
Hilariously accurate statement, too. I'm actually bringing his history of the second world war to the beach next week. Started it a couple weeks ago and haven't had time to finish.

When that man comes up with a plan he really knows how to follow through on it.
[/quote]


If you like history, you might like [i]Diplomacy[/i] by Henry Kissinger. It's enrapturing.

http://www.amazon.com/Diplomacy-Touchstone-book-Henry-Kissinger/dp/0671510991

Edited July 8, 2010 by Kzoppistan

[TehChron]

[quote name='Fernando12' date='07 July 2010 - 03:32 PM' timestamp='1278541905' post='2362808']
People complain about the game being boring but I can only point to [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=88607"]THIS[/url] and [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=88560"]THIS[/url] as to why there is very little excitement for long periods of times. There is a CN2 topic about a reset or second world spicing up the game. There is a blog about it too. There are people making topics about the good ole days. Well, the only ones to blame for the boring 6 month++ long periods nothingness in the game is each and every one of us that don't do anything.

Competitions for what I don't even know what the hell NSO and CSN are doing there. They don't like each other so they write about it? And they write reviews on each others newsletter and get other people to also review them to see who won? What happened to just clicking the declare war button and settling things in the in game battlefield. Have at it and have fun fighting each other in game and don't bring your allies if your afraid of a world war, just fight it out 1v1 alliance v alliance.
[/quote]


Excuse us for doing something that is entirely a competition between egos rather than wasting time declaring war when we could happily build up for the next one that matters?

Yeah...We're pathetic because we decided to have a little competition for fun. How [i]terrible[/i] of us.

Edit: Also, read the rest of the thread, spot on agree with the responses.

Edited July 8, 2010 by Chron

[Enrage]

Why have war when we could spend months and months improving diplomatic relations with one another and making lots of e-friends.

[Omniscient1]

People need enemies in this game. You can't just say fight it out and be friends later, because that'd make the game boring. We would have never gotten Karma alliances talking about how bad NPO was or Ex-Heg running around screaming "they are just as bad as us". Things like this make the game fun and actually worth playing.

[Schattenmann]

I have decided to reveal my ruling in the contest here, where I can lay it on a foundation of the tears of the man CoJ lovingly refers to as 'do:


Penkala and Chron:
Ooooooooook.

First off, shame on everyone for asking me to judge and pick between friendlies. Tut, tut; for shame!

I've gotta tell you, honestly, picking a winner on this one was sort of like deciding who's crap smells less. Everybody crapped, everybody got a nose full of crap, everybody's crap smells bad.

Both newsletters suffered from the contest--they weren't written as newsletters, but as contest entries. Instead of focusing on newsletter stuff, the quality of both suffered heavily from chest-thumping.

CSN's definitely delivered more laughs per pound. It was also a lot more sexy with that RV photo; I've got a new ceiling picture thanks to CSN's investigative efforts.

NSO's was certainly more professional. I think when it comes down to it, NSO is more used to channeling hate. Because NSO only slightly managed to produce a more cohesive, organized, logical publication, NSO has the less bad newsletter, so I guess technically they win.

Unfortunately for NSO, CSN would still kick NSO's butt in a war.

[Adrian LaCroix]

[quote name='Enrage' date='07 July 2010 - 11:34 PM' timestamp='1278560041' post='2363087']
Why have war when we could spend months and months improving diplomatic relations with one another and making lots of e-friends.
[/quote]

Burn the unbeliever.

[TehChron]

[quote name='Schattenmann' date='07 July 2010 - 08:47 PM' timestamp='1278560819' post='2363098']


Unfortunately for NSO, CSN would still kick NSO's butt in a war.
[/quote]
Thank god I didnt suggest a nuke off, in that case.

At any rate, our writing staff had fun, and thats all a guy can really ask for, you know? Hope it was the same on CSNs end.

[Schattenmann]

I guess everybody but 'do had fun.

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='Schattenmann' date='07 July 2010 - 11:47 PM' timestamp='1278560819' post='2363098']
I've gotta tell you, honestly, picking a winner on this one was sort of like deciding who's crap smells less. Everybody crapped, everybody got a nose full of crap, everybody's crap smells bad.
[/quote]

I'm assuming from this it was NSO's poop jokes that convinced you.

Damn it, we should have gotten Smurthwaite involved.

[TehChron]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='07 July 2010 - 10:34 PM' timestamp='1278567230' post='2363192']
I'm assuming from this it was NSO's poop jokes that convinced you.

Damn it, we should have gotten Smurthwaite involved.
[/quote]
Id be down for a rematch down the line if you guys are.

Im sure our poo-flinging will once again prove superior.

[StealingPandas]

Tisk tisk nandypoo, is this what you've come to?

I know you haven't been around here very long, you joined during (or possibly after) karma, I have no sense of time anymore though but if after the last war you are craving one so soon, or think that everyone should just attack everyone they don't like then you're wrong. As you acknowledged, this topic is pretty hypocritical considering we aren't practicing this for of diplomacy, and I certainly don't want to and I doubt you had any plan to do so.

Major wars happen when they happen, you can't force it or expect it. Sometimes there are large breaks and sometimes they are short. Lately there haven't been many huge one sided wars (and I mean like the days of NPO and friends stomping out fairly large alliances).

Like someone else said, most of the fun of the game is the politics rather than the actual combat. The wars add some spice to conflicts, and they allow one alliance or group to gain advantage over another through strength of nations, which goes back to the very basic point of CN which is to build a nation, whether for war or to show off or to just challenge yourself.

Why sign treaties and take time to make friends or anything like that if you just throw it out the window for some cheap thrills? Allies helping allies is how wars grow to large sizes.

I think this was poorly thought out, you could have at least worked on it more to create better discussion rather than causing everyone to disagree.

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='Chron' date='08 July 2010 - 01:35 AM' timestamp='1278567331' post='2363194']
Id be down for a rematch down the line if you guys are.

Im sure our poo-flinging will once again prove superior.
[/quote]

Have a Sith representative in this:
http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=88593

[General Scipio]

[quote name='Delta1212' date='07 July 2010 - 08:47 PM' timestamp='1278557244' post='2363037']
Hilariously accurate statement, too. I'm actually bringing his history of the second world war to the beach next week. Started it a couple weeks ago and haven't had time to finish.

When that man comes up with a plan he really knows how to follow through on it.
[/quote]
um, Operation Unthinkable?

[Heyman]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='08 July 2010 - 12:50 AM' timestamp='1278568209' post='2363203']
Have a Sith representative in this:
http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=88593
[/quote]

This sounds fun. Maybe I'll give it a shot.

[Vol Navy]

There is no counter currently to CnG/SF/NOIR/LEO/VE/MHA/Polaris etc who at this point are pretty much going to roll together very closely and control a major amount of NS in the game.

Also the last two major wars were much more damaging to the losing side than past wars were due to length and nuclear prolifteration via the MP and massive tech levels. The relatively short, only nuke if you get nuked approach to war was a mistake on the NPO/tC side of things as it turned out. They left their enemies in much better postion to recover than Karma and the latest coalition vs Iron and TOP did simply by allowing surrender after relatively short wars where no where near as much NS was shed.

But overall that approach was better for the game, as it left enough opposition strength to make war vs NPO seem viable and provided for excitement on the OWF for months.

So pretty much, until people in the blocs/alliances above decide to be less buddy buddy, which is what eventually happened to tC expect to see much of the political intrigue absent from the game.

In the meantime, you will just have to see how many rulers are left on Bob when/if it does happen.

[Kevanovia]

I was told something a long time ago by an old penguin, something I believe to be the wisest statement on these forums.

"Planet Bob is what you make it" - Pingu