The New Grämlins

[LiquidMercury]

[quote name='Doitzel' date='01 April 2010 - 04:01 AM' timestamp='1270112486' post='2243510']
As something of an expert on [i]coup d'etats[/i] in Polar, there was realistically very little they could have done.
[/quote]

I miss Doitzel in Polar. Then the world would of run right this war. While I'm no expert in coups I do feel as though something could of been done to prevent that.

[LiquidMercury]

[quote name='Baldr' date='01 April 2010 - 09:56 AM' timestamp='1270133796' post='2243735']
In the Karma war, the Karma forces asked NPO for unconditional surrender. They didn't get it.
[/quote]

Really? We did? Hmm I sure don't remember writing that into any of the versions of terms. But what do I know....

[Zangmonkey]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' date='01 April 2010 - 07:45 AM' timestamp='1270133133' post='2243723']
true true, i don't know for sure what Ram means, but from what i remember he is a literal guy. which to me would mean he meant the literal definition of unconditional surrender and not whatever Matthew is trying to pass off as unconditional surrender. this would also mean that the terms that would come after would also not be white peace. [/quote]

Again, the speculation adds fuel to the fire. Your anger seems based on your interpretation or suppositions rather than anything GRE has actually demanded.



[quote]if they are soooo a part of this coalition, why is it every other alliance in that coalition getting hit a lot harder than Gremlins? if Gremlins were the ones being hit the hardest, then i could see them holding up the peace process. but this is simply not true. Gremlins are holding up the peace process while others suffer and not them. thus, what exactly do they have to complain about? the answer is simple: absolutely nothing. they have absolutely no reason to hold up the peace process. [/quote]

We were heavily engaged in the conflict; and we could be even more so. It's solely on IRON et al that we are engaged in few wars at present.
There is a reason for everything. Ramirus is many things but he is not myopic.



[quote]there is no might. Gremlins are completely and totally responsible for all failure in communication about what Gremlins wants. this is absolute. there is no other alliance that could even remotely be responsible for Gremlins asking for unconditional surrender and military disarmament without actually explaining what those terms involve. so again, there is no might. this whole mess is solely Gremlins fault. [/quote]
This is as it has always been. If you want to know something about GRE's demands you should put forth some effort and respectfully ask those making the policy. We have never made it our priority to explain to the cyberverse everything about us they "don't get"



[quote]coming from someone in \m/ and iirc the original one, this is quite surprising. when something similar happened to the last \m/ i remember the bawwing over it. if you think IRON deserves this but the old \m/ didn't, well that is just plain laughable.
[/quote]

The old \m/ terms were something along the lines of "become a permanent tech farm for Polaris" which is not at all like this circumstance in any way.
Leave the hyperbole to the rest of the Chicken Little's; admin know's there are enough of them. You're smarter than that, Doch.

[Trinite]

Aprils Fool's? Please?

[Crymson]

Because many of you have been struggling with what you no doubt feel is Matthew's completely incoherent, baffling and disconnected behavior in this discussion, allow me to explain: his understanding of the Cyberverse as an entity, the manner in which he interprets history, and his perspective of how things should be done in the world arena have---as with those of Synth and many others in the Gramlins---been formed, dictated and proverbially implanted in his head by Ramirus. Having dealt with him while we still had treaty relations with the Gramlins, I can tell you that Matthew's views on any situation will depend on the manner in which Ramirus has taught Matthew to interpret events.

Edited April 1, 2010 by Crymson

[KagetheSecond]

I think you're pushing it a bit there, Crymson. Attributing such power to Ram is only inflating his ego.

[Vladimir Stukov II]

So Ramirus is like Kurtz and the Gremlins worship him? I guess this is the most reasonable explanation.

[Crymson]

[quote name='KagetheSecond' date='01 April 2010 - 09:57 AM' timestamp='1270137416' post='2243823']
I think you're pushing it a bit there, Crymson. Attributing such power to Ram is only inflating his ego.
[/quote]

Ask some others in TOP. You'd be surprised at the level to which many of the senior members of the Gramlins are utter cronies to Ramirus. Most of those who are not blind followers attempt, by whatever means, to avoid any notion of personal responsibility so far as concerns Ramirus's actions in government.

That said, I don't believe Ramirus's brain tissue can physically accommodate any further expansion of his ego.

Edited April 1, 2010 by Crymson

[HellAngel]

You finally did it. I am ashamed of having helped put that alliance into the world. Congratulations, Grämlins!

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='Baldr' date='01 April 2010 - 03:56 PM' timestamp='1270133796' post='2243735']
In the Karma war, the Karma forces asked NPO for unconditional surrender. They didn't get it.
[/quote]

No, that never happened.

[kriekfreak]

It's funny that TOP is now bashing Gra, while Gra didn't want to attack their former comrades.

[Zangmonkey]

[quote name='Crymson' date='01 April 2010 - 08:55 AM' timestamp='1270137319' post='2243822']
Because many of you have been struggling with what you no doubt feel is Matthew's completely incoherent, baffling and disconnected behavior in this discussion, allow me to explain: his understanding of the Cyberverse as an entity, the manner in which he interprets history, and his perspective of how things should be done in the world arena have---as with those of Synth and many others in the Gramlins---been formed, dictated and proverbially implanted in his head by Ramirus. Having dealt with him while we still had treaty relations with the Gramlins, I can tell you that Matthew's views on any situation will depend on the manner in which Ramirus has taught Matthew to interpret events.
[/quote]

On the contrary, Crymson. When we dealt with each other I categorically tried to be an open book. I wanted everything to be public because I felt that your members deserved to hear about our complaints with your actions (or the actions of rogues).
While I was transparent, [b]you[/b] were opaque.
My M.O. is and was unquestionably different than Ram's.

[Crymson]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='01 April 2010 - 10:37 AM' timestamp='1270139854' post='2243902']
On the contrary, Crymson. When we dealt with each other I categorically tried to be an open book. I wanted everything to be public because I felt that your members deserved to hear about our complaints with your actions (or the actions of rogues).
While I was transparent, [b]you[/b] were opaque.
My M.O. is and was unquestionably different than Ram's.
[/quote]

I think you're interpreting my comment as having referred to one particular incident, when in fact I meant it to apply to virtually everything you say and do in the arena of politics.

[Vladimir Stukov II]

[quote name='kriekfreak' date='01 April 2010 - 05:31 PM' timestamp='1270139494' post='2243892']
It's funny that TOP is now bashing Gra, while Gra didn't want to attack their former comrades.
[/quote]

I don't think we are bashing Gremlins. These are the Ramlins, led by one guy who managed to destroy everything that the Gremlins had worked for. There is a reason many of the original Gremlins are now in TOP or elsewhere.

[Bob Janova]

What's actually funny (a little, anyway; mostly this is just sad) is Arexes attempting to make this a thread about TOP, when Grämlins are (quite rightly) receiving a 'bashing' from pretty much all corners of the political world over this.

[Matt Miller]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='01 April 2010 - 11:40 AM' timestamp='1270136383' post='2243803']
We were heavily engaged in the conflict; and we could be even more so. It's solely on IRON et al that we are engaged in few wars at present.[/quote]

Yet here I sit with an open war slot and 25 Gramlins in range. But please, do tell me more about it being solely on IRON.

[RustyNail]

There is no more Grämlins. All that exists now is a shell of the former alliance that was respected throughout Bob by both their friends and enemies alike. Not even the ever-faithful voice of MHA can hold an argument of substance about their actions, no matter how hard they try. All there is now is an alliance that is driven and molded around the ego of one narcissistic sociopath who cares not what the greater world thinks.

My advice, leave Gre on the battlefield. If they wish to push a continual war on IRON, aside from the goals of the greater coalition then it does indeed become their own private war and separate from all other conflicts. Let them fight their battle and face whatever consequences come their way. No one else needs to deal with the lunacy any longer. We all want to enjoy the game again and let's face it...this war has gotten very very boring. Moving on is the best for everyone on all sides. Those that do not feel that way should be free to do as they wish...as should those that do.

[nutkase]

[quote name='Matt Miller' date='02 April 2010 - 12:51 AM' timestamp='1270140688' post='2243924']
Yet here I sit with an open war slot and 25 Gramlins in range. But please, do tell me more about it being solely on IRON.
[/quote]

Come down to my range, and I'll have a crack at ya

Edited April 1, 2010 by nutkase

[shahenshah]

[quote name='kriekfreak' date='01 April 2010 - 09:31 PM' timestamp='1270139494' post='2243892']
It's funny that TOP is now bashing Gra, while Gra didn't want to attack their former comrades.
[/quote]

Know what else is funny? When we were approached back in time by TOP's treaty partner and bloc-mate to essentially do what we considered would be backstabbing our friends in TOP. ;/

Edited April 1, 2010 by shahenshah

[Drizuz]

[quote name='Gunnar Griffin' date='01 April 2010 - 01:11 AM' timestamp='1270095066' post='2243047']
I wonder how Ramirus gets elected with stuff like this...
[/quote]

Ram made sure that people that like him (or let him do whatever) are in power in gremlins/ can give him power/ side with him.
This is a log from a few days/week after BobJanova left the gremlins.
[quote][22:03] <RamirusMaximus|GRE> BobJanova was one of the last obstacles.
<Drizuz[gre]> really?
[22:03] <RamirusMaximus|GRE> Don't take this the wrong way
[22:03] <RamirusMaximus|GRE> But you're the last Archon to know
[22:03] <RamirusMaximus|GRE> Mostly because you haven't been around, heh
<Drizuz[gre]> tbh i'm not sure why i'm an archon
[22:04] <RamirusMaximus|GRE> For me, actually....sorry about that
[22:04] <RamirusMaximus|GRE> I needed people on my side against Bob
[22:04] <RamirusMaximus|GRE> So I suggested 5 of you for Archon
<Drizuz[gre]> actually i kinda suppected that
[22:04] <RamirusMaximus|GRE> DLT, Matthew, Synth, you, Von Droz
[22:04] <RamirusMaximus|GRE> 4 out of 5 made it in[/quote]

Most of the people that disagree with Ram, are now out of the gremlins. So... not much to stop him now.

[Zangmonkey]

[quote name='Crymson' date='01 April 2010 - 09:40 AM' timestamp='1270140020' post='2243903']
I think you're interpreting my comment as having referred to one particular incident, when in fact I meant it to apply to virtually everything you say and do in the arena of politics.
[/quote]

Your history books differ from mine.

[Zangmonkey]

[quote name='Matt Miller' date='01 April 2010 - 09:51 AM' timestamp='1270140688' post='2243924']
Yet here I sit with an open war slot and 25 Gramlins in range. But please, do tell me more about it being solely on IRON.
[/quote]

Build more infrastructure and I'll happily declare on you.
It's not that you and I have never tangoed.
As for your vacant slot, I'll see what I can do.

[Matt Miller]

[quote name='Drizuz' date='01 April 2010 - 01:01 PM' timestamp='1270141294' post='2243944']
Ram made sure that people that like him (or let him do whatever) are in power in gremlins/ can give him power/ side with him.
This is a log from a few days/week after BobJanova left the gremlins.


Most of the people that disagree with Ram, are now out of the gremlins. So... not much to stop him now.
[/quote]

Yet allies and "friends" of Gramlins still cling to a memory of Gramlins built long ago when they were literally a different alliance than they are today. That must make those folks feel all warm and fuzzy.

[SpacingOutMan]

[quote name='Matt Miller' date='01 April 2010 - 01:07 PM' timestamp='1270141647' post='2243956']
Yet allies and "friends" of Gramlins still cling to a memory of Gramlins built long ago when they were literally a different alliance than they are today. That must make those folks feel all warm and fuzzy.
[/quote]

Aye, despite having Gramlins on our side... they have changed drastically and it is rather disheartening.

[Vladimir Stukov II]

[quote name='Drizuz' date='01 April 2010 - 06:01 PM' timestamp='1270141294' post='2243944']
Ram made sure that people that like him (or let him do whatever) are in power in gremlins/ can give him power/ side with him.
This is a log from a few days/week after BobJanova left the gremlins.


Most of the people that disagree with Ram, are now out of the gremlins. So... not much to stop him now.
[/quote]

This is just sad. Gremlins truly were one of the greatest alliances in CN. To have one man ruin such a great thing for his personal power is disheartening.