Karma for Sparta

[Aeternos Astramora]

[quote name='Shinpah' date='01 March 2010 - 10:42 PM' timestamp='1267505176' post='2210821']
Could you provide a list of examples of Sparta forcing itself to the stronger side no matter what, and then prove that this was the intent of Sparta?
[/quote]
I'll let others do it since I'm not the one that claimed it and commander thrawn seemed to agree with it.

[quote name='commander thrawn' date='01 March 2010 - 10:54 PM' timestamp='1267505878' post='2210839']
I don't call it anything, but it just seems like a lot of people are complaining that they got hurt defeding their allies and are pissed that Sparta hasn't. Blame your own government or better yet yourself if you are in trouble.
[/quote]
I would blame my government if they just chose the stronger side because they were too afraid to be in a losing war.

Edited March 2, 2010 by Aeternos Astramora

[Pearl]

[quote name='Aeternos Astramora' date='01 March 2010 - 11:00 PM' timestamp='1267506217' post='2210848']
I'll let others do it since I'm not the one that claimed it and commander thrawn seemed to agree with it.
[/quote]
Heh, A convenient excuse.

[commander thrawn]

[quote name='Aeternos Astramora' date='02 March 2010 - 05:00 AM' timestamp='1267506217' post='2210848']
I'll let others do it since I'm not the one that claimed it and commander thrawn seemed to agree with it.


I would blame my government if they just chose the stronger side because they were too afraid to be in a losing war.
[/quote]

I didn't agree with anything regarding Sparta, all I have seen is a lot of whining, if Sparta did ditch any of their allies or do any posturing please do show it, from where I am sitting they have been good allies.

[Pearl]

[quote name='Aeternos Astramora' date='01 March 2010 - 11:00 PM' timestamp='1267506217' post='2210848']
I would blame my government if they just chose the stronger side because they were too afraid to be in a losing war.
[/quote]
Oh man, I wish (well not really) you could have been in our govt chamber at the start of this war

[lonewolfe2015]

[quote name='Aeternos Astramora' date='02 March 2010 - 12:00 AM' timestamp='1267506217' post='2210848']
I would blame my government if they just chose the stronger side because they were too afraid to be in a losing war.
[/quote]

Can you explain this please? How can anyone know which side is stronger in a war that early on? There is no crystal ball foretelling everyone will side with CnG. Sparta jumped to defend their allies regardless of who hit them. Even if all of Citadel was united against them rather than breaking, they would defend their allies.

Before the war, this looked like an even fight not an uneven one. The numbers looked like TOP's side would destroy upper nations and CnG's side would wreck mid-tier and lower. Well how could anyone tell that after most of the aftermath it would turn out more in CnG's favor (after heavy, heavy losses) than in TOP's?

[Olaf Styke]

[quote name='Aeternos Astramora' date='02 March 2010 - 12:00 AM' timestamp='1267506217' post='2210848']
I would blame my government if they just chose the stronger side because they were too afraid to be in a losing war.
[/quote]

So your idea of a good government is one that will throw it's membership in to a losing war? ToP is doing a bang-up job, then.

[commander thrawn]

[quote name='Olaf Styke' date='02 March 2010 - 05:50 AM' timestamp='1267509214' post='2210940']
So your idea of a good government is one that will throw it's membership in to a losing war? ToP is doing a bang-up job, then.
[/quote]

Nah he just doesn't like there to be any winners in war.

[Olaf Styke]

[quote name='commander thrawn' date='02 March 2010 - 12:59 AM' timestamp='1267509766' post='2210957']
Nah he just doesn't like there to be any winners in war.
[/quote]

Well that just makes PERFECT sense!

War--HUH--good god, yall! What is it good for? Absolutely nothin'! SING IT AGAIN!

[Reason]

[quote name='lonewolfe2015' date='01 March 2010 - 06:38 PM' timestamp='1267486922' post='2210428']
People blame Sparta for taking reps on TOOL, when they declared on Sparta and lost, they weren't significant reps if other alliances involved hadn't taken reps as well and Sparta can't control other sovereign alliances, so take it up with the other alliances.

People blame Sparta for not even having taken reps yet from TOP/IRON, why don't you wait to see what happens before condemning them?
[/quote]
I think taking reparations from TOOL was fine but to ask them from TOP/IRON would not be. I know, obviously, terms have not been finalised yet, but the fact that it was on the table suggested to me that the government in Sparta must have approved it. Still, I suppose we'll have to wait and see before making judgement as you said.

[commander thrawn]

[quote]Well that just makes PERFECT sense![/quote]

it does though I think...

Edited March 2, 2010 by commander thrawn

[Seth Muscarella]

[quote name='Aeternos Astramora' date='01 March 2010 - 10:00 PM' timestamp='1267506217' post='2210848']I would blame my government if they just chose the stronger side because they were too afraid to be in a losing war.
[/quote]
We definitely didn't choose this war. ;-P

Edited March 2, 2010 by Seth Muscarella

[wolfbain]

Aeternos Astramora,

Sparta had no treaties with ToP/IRON;

Sparta had a treaty with Athens;

Sparta entered the war in Defense of Athens;

We did not 'Pick a Side' our pre-existing treaties did;

Other then the initial Dow, all other parties entered via treaty;

Plz try again.

[Sephiroth]

That Sparta would ask reps and of TOP who is fighting 20+ alliances, as well as two other alliances in this wars as well as their history of being one of the Q alliances left who haven't been rolled yet makes it likely soon enough.

Edited March 2, 2010 by Methrage

[commander thrawn]

[quote name='wolfbain' date='02 March 2010 - 07:43 AM' timestamp='1267515998' post='2211073']
Aeternos Astramora,

Sparta had no treaties with ToP/IRON;

Sparta had a treaty with Athens;

Sparta entered the war in Defense of Athens;

We did not 'Pick a Side' our pre-existing treaties did;

Other then the initial Dow, all other parties entered via treaty;

Plz try again.
[/quote]

This, I have really failed to understand the idea that Sparta is being opportunistic, what with the whole CnG getting attacked thing. I guess if you don't want to be rolled then have the balls to say you aren't going to defend TOP/IRON et al cause they were the aggressors.

[Lord GVChamp]

I don't know the answer to the poll question, but Sparta apparently took it as a challenge to get "less than 3 months"

I sure hope you're nicer in private channels, Olaf

Edited March 2, 2010 by Lord GVChamp

[Olaf Styke]

[quote name='Lord GVChamp' date='02 March 2010 - 04:18 AM' timestamp='1267521731' post='2211124']
I don't know the answer to the poll question, but Sparta apparently took it as a challenge to get "less than 3 months"

I sure hope you're nicer in private channels, Olaf
[/quote]

That depends on weather or not my alliance is being unjustifiably attacked in said private channels, but you're welcome to come hang out in #cnsparta and judge for yourself.

...and that goes for the rest of you as well.

Edited March 2, 2010 by Olaf Styke

[Yggdrazil]

I have expressed concern that Sparta has over-reacted to this thread. This treads purpose was to malign Sparta. It contained no substantial facts about why Sparta deserved what it purposed. It was started, in essence, as a propaganda piece by someone that participated on the opposite side of the treaty web. Anyone with any sense knew this from the identity of the poster. It hurts to be on the losing side of an endeavor and leads to cross words and actions that are best left as a private matter-deal with the pain internally.
This tread still lives and grows and even has government official of Sparta participating. Which is a clear indication that Sparta has immature leadership or lack of diplomatic skills?
This was a train wreck and rather than have us all rubber neck for a moment, Sparta dragged the mangled bodies from the wreckage and put them on display in a public square. And now it emits a stench.
Vox started this process where any negative comment was responded to immediately, until it became a chant..."In before the tread becomes about Vox". It was taken up by MKers effectively during Karma. It has lost most of its luster and besides Sparta, you're doing it wrong.

[Ketther]

[quote name='Yggdrazil' date='02 March 2010 - 01:14 PM' timestamp='1267528694' post='2211186']
Anyone with any sense knew this from the identity of the poster.[/quote]

I'll just pick this bit from your post (which I like, by the way)

The problem with this bit is quite interesting though. It seems every time someone bashes Sparta (from a specific club of "fans" that starts to be pretty obvious to me... finally ) we have to options - we let the thread die and people start asking why don't we do something about it. This, incidentally puts the burden on our allies and friends to defend us. While I am down with this - and send my love to them at the same time - it sort gives more ammo to our fans ... Or go down to their level and then we get looked down at for it.

Honestly, I'd rather take option two. Our presence on the OWF is pretty much stealthy (or make that "sneaky" ) since I joined the alliance.

I'm not going to do the 'haters will be haters' routine. It's pretty much overused. You might want to look at this thread, before or after Olaf coming in guns blazing . Care to make a bet on the percentage of unbiased curiosity in it?

We have our stake in the bad posters market. Olaf isn't one of them though

/edit Age gets me I forgot to make the point I was trying to initially. Anyone with any sense will know indeed. My response to Alterego was based on that knowledge. What about those that actually have no idea what happened months ago? There is fresh meat on the market from time to time.

Edited March 2, 2010 by Ketther

[Azhrei]

[quote name='The Big Bad' date='02 March 2010 - 01:49 AM' timestamp='1267494769' post='2210621']
Then your fooling yourselves and know nothing of Sparta's history, abandoning and then turning on its allies has been Spartas only active FA policy.
[/quote]

If I were a betting man, I would take the bet that Sparta will not abandon and then turn on Athens. But I'm not a betting man, and your post should only be ignored for the flame-bait it is.

[Locke]

Though I'm not sure "sneaky" is the correct word for describing why Sparta won't get beat down, I don't see it happening, not if things don't make a dramatic turn-around. Unfortunately.

[Wilhelm the Demented]

[quote name='Yggdrazil' date='02 March 2010 - 06:14 AM' timestamp='1267528694' post='2211186']
I have expressed concern that Sparta has over-reacted to this thread. This treads purpose was to malign Sparta. It contained no substantial facts about why Sparta deserved what it purposed. It was started, in essence, as a propaganda piece by someone that participated on the opposite side of the treaty web. Anyone with any sense knew this from the identity of the poster. It hurts to be on the losing side of an endeavor and leads to cross words and actions that are best left as a private matter-deal with the pain internally.
This tread still lives and grows and even has government official of Sparta participating. Which is a clear indication that Sparta has immature leadership or lack of diplomatic skills?
This was a train wreck and rather than have us all rubber neck for a moment, Sparta dragged the mangled bodies from the wreckage and put them on display in a public square. And now it emits a stench.
Vox started this process where any negative comment was responded to immediately, until it became a chant..."In before the tread becomes about Vox". It was taken up by MKers effectively during Karma. It has lost most of its luster and besides Sparta, you're doing it wrong.
[/quote]
The only reason we were so silly was to represent the utter stupidity within this thread.

If you read our posts with light-hearted and sarcastic tones, you'll be reading them right.

Seriously, guys, we aren't taking the "Sparta gonna get it" thing seriously because:

A.) Sounds Fun.
B.) We don't really care about our infraz. (Well a few of our guys did, but they surrendered and I feel so much better now that they are gone.)
C.) We have friends, both within and outside of our community. Whether we are going down in flames or defending our allies against a poorly executed aggressive action - that's all we really care about.

If you come in here barking about our FA direction or War performance, I'll leave you with this:

FA Direction: It changed. (I know, such a new concept.) We left some allies who didn't give two farts about us, and moved towards people that actually respect us.

I see no wrong in that.

Military Performance: Better than Karma? Yes. Perfect? No. Get over it.

Edited March 2, 2010 by wilhelm the demented

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='Lord GVChamp' date='02 March 2010 - 09:18 AM' timestamp='1267521731' post='2211124']

I sure hope you're nicer in private channels, Olaf
[/quote]

I sure hope not, I would be very disappointed lol

In all seriousness though, why should he have to be nice? This discussion was created strictly with the purpose of saying derogatory things about Sparta, and served for many pages as a place where all those who hate Sparta could gather and profess their undieing desire to see them burn/insult them/etc....and therefore they should respond by being nice? Not in my book, Mr. Olaf seems to have come in here and shoved a lot of peoples feet down their own throats in a rather amusing fashion, so +1 in my book.

Also, down with Sparta.

[The Big Bad]

[quote name='Azhrei' date='02 March 2010 - 12:09 PM' timestamp='1267549970' post='2211433']
If I were a betting man, I would take the bet that Sparta will not abandon and then turn on Athens. But I'm not a betting man, and your post should only be ignored for the flame-bait it is.
[/quote]

I am sure none of Spartas past allies they abandoned and turned on were planning on it either. Thats kind of how it works.

[Hymenbreach]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' date='02 March 2010 - 07:20 PM' timestamp='1267557835' post='2211541']
I sure hope not, I would be very disappointed lol

In all seriousness though, why should he have to be nice? This discussion was created strictly with the purpose of saying derogatory things about Sparta, and served for many pages as a place where all those who hate Sparta could gather and profess their undieing desire to see them burn/insult them/etc....and therefore they should respond by being nice? Not in my book, Mr. Olaf seems to have come in here and shoved a lot of peoples feet down their own throats in a rather amusing fashion, so +1 in my book.

Also, down with Sparta.
[/quote]

I look forward to your book on Diplomacy.

[commander thrawn]

[quote name='Hymenbreach' date='02 March 2010 - 10:22 PM' timestamp='1267568770' post='2211768']
I look forward to your book on Diplomacy.
[/quote]


A good diplomat earns respect, not niceties. Honesty not pampering. Basically with Olaf you know where he stands, he will be lighthearted and honest if you are a friend, and downright epic when you aren't