Karma for Sparta

[Arcturus Jefferson]

[quote name='Letum' date='01 March 2010 - 12:04 AM' timestamp='1267420050' post='2209498']
Yes, I am aware that hatred is a powerful and irrational force that is never truly satisfied and needs little fuel to burn. That was part of my original point, thank you for proving it.
[/quote]
Alas wretched Pacifica, unjustly doomed to weather the fires of hatred for crimes uncommitted. Truly the most piteous creature to command one's sympathy on this very planet.

[Pearl]

[quote name='Yggdrazil' date='28 February 2010 - 11:02 PM' timestamp='1267419970' post='2209495']
Trying to get a thread locked with spam is poor form ,Sparta.You need to answer your detractors with acumen and talent. Efficiency at FA and nation building.Yet, you chose the stupid method. It points to a like of class and the behavior of children.
A notice to Sparta detractors, you never underestimate your opponents...ever.
[/quote]

Are you serious? Did you actually read the OP?

How would you like it if I posted a thread that said "When is the Sansori Initiative going to get rolled?" I suppose you'd be really cool with that and would encourage that kind of behavior wouldnt you?

[Feanor Noldorin]

Sparta is a sideline alliance who really doesn't get involved much when it comes to politics. I doubt they will get rolled/harsh terms any time soon.

[Yggdrazil]

[quote name='Pearl' date='28 February 2010 - 11:11 PM' timestamp='1267420520' post='2209508']
Are you serious? Did you actually read the OP?

How would you like it if I posted a thread that said "When is the Sansori Initiative going to get rolled?" I suppose you'd be really cool with that and would encourage that kind of behavior wouldnt you?
[/quote]
I would not be able to stop you. Yet, I would like to think my response would be well reasoned, rather than an immature response. And how does this tread differ all that much from you signature. Your signature accomplishes the same as this tread. A poor propaganda attempt to paint an alliance as other than competent. Those with a modicum of intelligence recognize; to sway those with limited grasp of conceptual awareness and appeal to the lowest common denominator you attempt things like this tread and also in your signature. Poor form and beneath an alliance of Sparta's talent-unless I am mistaken.

Edited March 1, 2010 by Yggdrazil

[BamaBuc]

[quote name='wilhelm the demented' date='28 February 2010 - 10:49 PM' timestamp='1267419163' post='2209477']
After IRON hit our allies. An attack on FoB and Athens is an attack on Sparta - trust.

Edit:See what I did thar? :3
[/quote]
And the Black alliance that we attacked in Karma hit our allies. An attack on TPF... You get the idea.

-Bama

[F15pilotX]

[quote name='Pearl' date='01 March 2010 - 12:11 AM' timestamp='1267420520' post='2209508']
[quote name='Yggdrazil' date='01 March 2010 - 12:02 AM' timestamp='1267419970' post='2209495']
Trying to get a thread locked with spam is poor form ,Sparta.You need to answer your detractors with acumen and talent. Efficiency at FA and nation building.Yet, you chose the stupid method. It points to a like of class and the behavior of children.[/quote]
Are you serious? Did you actually read the OP?

How would you like it if I posted a thread that said "When is the Sansori Initiative going to get rolled?" I suppose you'd be really cool with that and would encourage that kind of behavior wouldnt you?
[/quote]TSI getting rolled isn't the issue here, though; Sparta is. Try using Yggdrazil's advice instead of crying that the thread was made.

[Olaf Styke]

[quote name='Yggdrazil' date='01 March 2010 - 01:08 AM' timestamp='1267423939' post='2209579']
I would not be able to stop you. Yet, I would like to think my response would be well reasoned, rather than an immature response. And how does this tread differ all that much from you signature. Your signature accomplishes the same as this tread. A poor propaganda attempt to paint an alliance as other than competent. Those with a modicum of intelligence recognize; to sway those with limited grasp of conceptual awareness and appeal to the lowest common denominator you attempt things like this tread and also in your signature. Poor form and beneath an alliance of Sparta's talent-unless I am mistaken.
[/quote]

I would like to think that THIS thread was well reasoned and mature, but that would make me a retard.

I'm not going to pretend to be above stooping to their level, because frankly, if it gets the job done, I'm all in favour of it. When they can treat us with some respect, we'll treat them with some respect. But until threads like this stop cropping up, you have myself, Pearl, and DL's condescensions to look froward to. Enjoy the show, my friend.

Edited March 1, 2010 by Olaf Styke

[Reason]

[quote name='Olaf Styke' date='01 March 2010 - 01:17 AM' timestamp='1267424472' post='2209596']
I would like to think that THIS thread was well reasoned and mature, but that would make me a retard.
[/quote]
As an outside observer, I'd just like to say that the response from Sparta in this thread has been pretty poor. You never really made a direct argument against the OP's points but simply dismissed them as obviously false. I am not saying that they are correct or incorrect, the accusations, but I would like to point out that it makes it seem like you guys have no real defense or counter-argument. Maybe you should focus on dismissing the military statistics and foreign affairs record they accuse Sparta of and not any ad hominem avenue of attack you find in the posters.

[Pearl]

[quote name='F15pilotX' date='01 March 2010 - 12:11 AM' timestamp='1267424072' post='2209583']
TSI getting rolled isn't the issue here, though; Sparta is. Try using Yggdrazil's advice instead of crying that the thread was made.
[/quote]

You're clever. [ooc]Btw, the F-16 was better[/ooc]

EDIT: OOC tags

Edited March 1, 2010 by Pearl

[Yggdrazil]

I have pointed out this thread is a propaganda attempt and poorly conceived, yet it differs little than the signatures in many member nations in this community.Responding to it as Sparta did and one being a government official was likewise poor form. I expected more for a alliance of Sparta's caliber.If I'm wrong to expect reasoned responses from Sparta rather than attempts to derail a thread with garbage, let me know.

Edited March 1, 2010 by Yggdrazil

[Olaf Styke]

[quote name='Pedron Niall' date='01 March 2010 - 01:28 AM' timestamp='1267425121' post='2209613']
As an outside observer, I'd just like to say that the response from Sparta in this thread has been pretty poor. You never really made a direct argument against the OP's points but simply dismissed them as obviously false. I am not saying that they are correct or incorrect, the accusations, but I would like to point out that it makes it seem like you guys have no real defense or counter-argument. Maybe you should focus on dismissing the military statistics and foreign affairs record they accuse Sparta of and not any ad hominem avenue of attack you find in the posters.
[/quote]

How can we be expected to argue something so blatantly and ridiculously false? I'd wager every one of our detractors already knows that what they're spouting is pure !@#$%^&*, so with that in mind, what reason do we have to argue? Can we really be expected to waste our time trying to argue a point they will never concede, or should we make a mockery of a thread that is, it's self, a mockery?

You have a right to your opinion, that's fine, I respect that, so do all the good people who have posted in their thread. But there is a time and place for it, and there are exceptable ways to present them. This thread is not one of them. I feel duty bound to make an impression on the deplorable individuals who presented and promulgated this poll that their conduct has been unacceptable and that hostility will be met with hostility in equal measure.

Had these people come in to this thread with evidence rather than rhetoric and accusations, this thread would have played out differently, but the die is cast. I make no apologies either for myself or my alliance, we have acted the only way that can be expected of anyone with a modicum of self respect.

[wenwillthisend]

Come on, where's the who cares option?

I refuse to vote until there is a who cares option.

[Reason]

[quote name='Olaf Styke' date='01 March 2010 - 01:35 AM' timestamp='1267425552' post='2209629']
How can we be expected to argue something so blatantly and ridiculously false?
[/quote]
Actually, it's quite simple. You disprove their accusations of your military ineptness and your flip-flopping foreign affairs. I am pretty sure that would prove them wrong but I don't see you bothering.

[Chalaskan]

[quote name='Arthur Blair' date='28 February 2010 - 05:53 AM' timestamp='1267368998' post='2208274']
If you think sparta is so bad, why don't you do something about it instead of whining on the forums?

You should know might makes right, and sparta has been right a lot.
[/quote]

This statement is an oxymoron...I had to point this out.

[Olaf Styke]

[quote name='Pedron Niall' date='01 March 2010 - 01:37 AM' timestamp='1267425678' post='2209633']
Actually, it's quite simple. You disprove their accusations of your military ineptness and your flip-flopping foreign affairs. I am pretty sure that would prove them wrong but I don't see you bothering.
[/quote]

Ok, that was a good first try, but next time read ALL of what I said before posting.

Edit: by the way, nice circular argument there; how do we prove it false? by proving it false! Genius.

Edited March 1, 2010 by Olaf Styke

[Reason]

[quote name='Olaf Styke' date='01 March 2010 - 01:40 AM' timestamp='1267425857' post='2209639']
Ok, that was a good first try, but next time read ALL of what I said before posting.
[/quote]
You still haven't responded to my point. That's two posts now and you've avoided it. All you have stated is that you don't consider this thread dignified enough to give a serious response to. I said that this attitude cause Sparta to look bad by failing to disprove the reasoning of the OP because it is a falsifiable question. I said Sparta should prove them false and thus they would be wrong. I am able to read and understand what you have posted, but I am not quite sure if the reverse is true.

Edited March 1, 2010 by Pedron Niall

[kulomascovia]

[quote name='Olaf Styke' date='28 February 2010 - 10:35 PM' timestamp='1267425552' post='2209629']
How can we be expected to argue something so blatantly and ridiculously false? I'd wager every one of our detractors already knows that what they're spouting is pure !@#$%^&*, so with that in mind, what reason do we have to argue? Can we really be expected to waste our time trying to argue a point they will never concede, or should we make a mockery of a thread that is, it's self, a mockery?

You have a right to your opinion, that's fine, I respect that, so do all the good people who have posted in their thread. But there is a time and place for it, and there are exceptable ways to present them. This thread is not one of them. I feel duty bound to make an impression on the deplorable individuals who presented and promulgated this poll that their conduct has been unacceptable and that hostility will be met with hostility in equal measure.

Had these people come in to this thread with evidence rather than rhetoric and accusations, this thread would have played out differently, but the die is cast. I make no apologies either for myself or my alliance, we have acted the only way that can be expected of anyone with a modicum of self respect.
[/quote]

To be honest, this thread has gone as far as it did because you responded to it. If you think that the accusations are silly and do not warrant a serious response, don't bother replying since it will just bring out those who want to insult/slander you guys.

[FreddieMercury]

It will be interesting one day when Sparta makes the inevitable misstep and then all of a sudden all the former Vox people will be on the podium suddenly praising that the day of reckoning has finally come for Sparta. Funny how they are silent right now.

[Olaf Styke]

[quote name='kulomascovia' date='01 March 2010 - 01:42 AM' timestamp='1267425975' post='2209643']
To be honest, this thread has gone as far as it did because you responded to it. If you think that the accusations are silly and do not warrant a serious response, don't bother replying since it will just bring out those who want to insult/slander you guys.
[/quote]

And I would abandon it, my good man, had I not a vested interest in hammering home how ridiculous this all is--to make sure everyone understands that this is pure crap. Unfortunately not all CNers are as perceptive or as strong minded as you or I. Some of them, like the gentlemen who is posting above and ignoring the fact that I've answered his question already, need to be told repeatedly and in many different ways that they are wrong before it sinks in.

That's my job, and I'm committed to it.

[Newhotness]

i dont see karma coming back to get sparta. They arent very threatening. Nothing against sparta, but just watching bob, i dont really see anyone complaining about the oppressive sparta and how evil sparta is and all that good stuff. So i voted never

[Reason]

[quote name='Olaf Styke' date='01 March 2010 - 01:40 AM' timestamp='1267425857' post='2209639']
Edit: by the way, nice circular argument there; how do we prove it false? by proving it false! Genius.
[/quote]
It's not circular logic. You never proved them false. I am insisting you prove them false to prove that they are. I thought this was obvious but apparently it is not to you.

[F15pilotX]

[quote name='Pearl' date='01 March 2010 - 01:33 AM' timestamp='1267425399' post='2209624']
You're clever.[/quote]
Actually, Yggdrazil was the one that gave you the advice; complement him instead.

Appreciated, however.

[quote name='Pedron Niall' date='01 March 2010 - 01:28 AM' timestamp='1267425121' post='2209613']
As an outside observer, I'd just like to say that the response from Sparta in this thread has been pretty poor. You never really made a direct argument against the OP's points but simply dismissed them as obviously false. I am not saying that they are correct or incorrect, the accusations, but I would like to point out that it makes it seem like you guys have no real defense or counter-argument. Maybe you should focus on dismissing the military statistics and foreign affairs record they accuse Sparta of and not any ad hominem avenue of attack you find in the posters.
[/quote]
Just look at all the good advice you are getting, Pearl & co! You should use it!


[quote name='Yggdrazil' date='01 March 2010 - 01:34 AM' timestamp='1267425495' post='2209627']
I have pointed out this thread is a propaganda attempt and poorly conceived, yet it differs little than the signatures in many member nations in this community.Responding to it as Sparta did and one being a government official was likewise poor form. I expected more for a alliance of Sparta's caliber.If I'm wrong to expect reasoned responses from Sparta rather than attempts to derail a thread with garbage..[/quote]
You are wrong to expect a reasoned response, from what we have seen so far.

[quote name='Yggdrazil' date='01 March 2010 - 01:34 AM' timestamp='1267425495' post='2209627']let me know.[/quote]Done.


[quote name='Olaf Styke' date='01 March 2010 - 01:35 AM' timestamp='1267425552' post='2209629']How can we be expected to argue something so blatantly and ridiculously false? I'd wager every one of our detractors already knows that what they're spouting is pure !@#$%^&*, so with that in mind, what reason do we have to argue? Can we really be expected to waste our time trying to argue a point they will never concede, or should we make a mockery of a thread that is, it's self, a mockery?[/quote]
We certainly [s]expect[/s] wish you would try to argue the claims against your military/FA (see the quotes above in this same post), but apparently that is too much.


[quote name='Olaf Styke' date='01 March 2010 - 01:35 AM' timestamp='1267425552' post='2209629']You have a right to your opinion, that's fine, I respect that, so do all the good people who have posted in their thread. But there is a time and place for it, and there are exceptable ways to present them. This thread is not one of them. I feel duty bound to make an impression on the deplorable individuals who presented and promulgated this poll that their conduct has been unacceptable and that hostility will be met with hostility in equal measure.[/quote]
The only impression you are making on the public of CN is that you can't or won't defend your alliance against these claims by logic and evidence, and must resort to spam in a futile attempt to get it closed, instead.


[quote name='Olaf Styke' date='01 March 2010 - 01:35 AM' timestamp='1267425552' post='2209629']Had these people come in to this thread with evidence rather than rhetoric and accusations, this thread would have played out differently, but the die is cast. I make no apologies either for myself or my alliance, we have acted the only way that can be expected of anyone with a modicum of self respect.[/quote]
You are the ones defending your alliance's name (supposedly - though your conduct thusfar seems to support the other side more than your own), so again, why don't you try disproving the aforementioned claims? That would get the thread over with much sooner than spam, if you could do so successfully.


edit(s) - grammar/formatting

Edited March 1, 2010 by F15pilotX

[Wilhelm the Demented]

[quote name='Pedron Niall' date='01 March 2010 - 01:37 AM' timestamp='1267425678' post='2209633']
Actually, it's quite simple. You disprove their accusations of your military ineptness and your flip-flopping foreign affairs. I am pretty sure that would prove them wrong but I don't see you bothering.
[/quote]
What's so simple is that those two things can speak for themselves.

No one needs to tell you what we are doing, we don't need to defend our image because there is nothing to be ashamed of. As far as I'm concerned, everyone is capable of making an informed decision, (despite many examples to the contrary) all you have to do is be able to tell the difference between information and dribble.

As for this discussion: Serious discussions are met with serious discussion. This is no discussion of the sort.

Don't have enough Information to make an informed decision?

If you want answers from Sparta, try talking to Sparta instead of laboring to amass the drones behind some blatant criticism in public. We have embassies, and there is such a thing as private discussion. (My apologies, we're not making this entertaining for you, peanut gallery.) We actually don't act this way if we aren't completely disgusted by the circumstances.

Edited March 1, 2010 by wilhelm the demented

[Olaf Styke]

[quote name='Pedron Niall' date='01 March 2010 - 01:48 AM' timestamp='1267426329' post='2209655']
It's not circular logic. You never proved them false. I am insisting you prove them false to prove that they are. I thought this was obvious but apparently it is not to you.
[/quote]

...I think you're failing to grasp the concept of circular argument. Let me break it down for you:

I asked the question "How do we prove the accusations against Sparta false".

You answered by listing the individual accusations that made up the category "accusations against Sparta", and telling us that proving them all false would prove the statement false.

So you told us that proving the conclusion was true would prove the conclusion true... that's a circular argument. Re-phrasing the conclusion you assumed to be true doesn't change anything.

Ex: Olaf thinks this conversation is stupid.
How do you know?
Because he thinks it's dumb.

Edited March 1, 2010 by Olaf Styke

[Reason]

[quote name='Olaf Styke' date='01 March 2010 - 02:01 AM' timestamp='1267427103' post='2209678']
So you told us that proving the conclusion was true would make the conclusion true...
[/quote]
Yes, I said that to prove you are right [b]you must prove it[/b] and you have failed to do so because you made no logical argument against the OP's implications. I am asking you to prove that Sparta's military record is not as poor as the OP suggests and that Sparta's foreign affairs have been honourable and not simply for the expedience of the moment. Why are you purposely avoiding this question?