Imperial Decree - New Polar Order

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='kevin32891' date='02 February 2010 - 05:48 PM' timestamp='1265150912' post='2153970']
I wasn't taking to you WC, and plus that didn't answer my question.
[/quote]

This move would be honorable if they were defending [i]all[/i] their allies.

[Obiwan]

[quote name='kevin32891' date='02 February 2010 - 06:33 PM' timestamp='1265149981' post='2153946']
So you find that people who help out their allies are "disgusting" and "despicable"?
[/quote]
you're right. the only thing that matters is that they (NSO) are allies. No circumstances or other factors even matter.

EDIT: clarified who "they" were

Edited February 2, 2010 by Obiwan

[kevin32891]

[quote name='Obiwan' date='02 February 2010 - 05:53 PM' timestamp='1265151186' post='2153980']
you're right. the only thing that matters is that they were allies. No circumstances or other factors even matter.
[/quote]
Don't dodge the question. I'll ask again, do you find that people who help out their allies are "disgusting" and "despicable"?

EDIT: NSO aren't just allies, we're brothers.

Edited February 2, 2010 by kevin32891

[Obiwan]

I didn't dodge the question.

[kevin32891]

[quote name='Obiwan' date='02 February 2010 - 05:57 PM' timestamp='1265151432' post='2153987']
I didn't dodge the question.
[/quote]
If you had said yes or no then you would have answered the question. You just made a statement that NSO are "just"
NpO's allies.

[Obiwan]

if that is all you can read from what I said, then that must be all that I said. and nothing more

Edited February 2, 2010 by Obiwan

[TheyCallMeJeezy]

[quote name='kevin32891' date='02 February 2010 - 05:55 PM' timestamp='1265151310' post='2153985']
NSO aren't just allies, we're brothers.
[/quote]
Truth. Plain and simple.

[Turbomammoth]

[quote name='Letum' date='02 February 2010 - 05:37 PM' timestamp='1265150237' post='2153952']
No offence, but don't you get tired of repeating that? You've been saying it everywhere, all the time. I think people get the point you're trying to make by now.
[/quote]


This really is the week of new/surprising experiences for me.

Letum, I've not been agreeing with you for 2 and a half years...



Halp me....

[Bob Janova]

[quote name='Micheal Malone' date='02 February 2010 - 10:37 PM' timestamp='1265150278' post='2153953']
Bob, really? For someone who has intricate knowledge of the treaty web you are talking nonsense. So it is now SF's fault that Polar [i]knowingly aligned against[/i] one of SF's allies? And it's SF's fault that they were then put opposite by honoring defensive treaties? I'm just trying to understand the spin you're using. Could you enlighten me? I'm going to work, but I look forward to having something entertaining to read when I return.

Edit: Change of words to italicized.
[/quote]
Polar 'knowingly aligned against' one of SF's allies, yes (\m/) – after talking to the SF alliance which was allied to them. As for 'honouring defensive treaties', as I pointed out [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?app=blog&module=display&section=blog&blogid=20&showentry=1116]here[/url] at least 3 chains of entry (FOK, Stickmen and LEO) and probably 4 (SF) were not obligatory. SF chose to be on the opposite side to Polar right at the start and nothing since then has changed the fact that they (including GOD) chose to be on the opposite side, not Polar.

[Delta1212]

[quote name='Bob Janova' date='02 February 2010 - 06:14 PM' timestamp='1265152447' post='2154028']
Polar 'knowingly aligned against' one of SF's allies, yes (\m/) – after talking to the SF alliance which was allied to them. As for 'honouring defensive treaties', as I pointed out [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?app=blog&module=display&section=blog&blogid=20&showentry=1116]here[/url] at least 3 chains of entry (FOK, Stickmen and LEO) and probably 4 (SF) were not obligatory. SF chose to be on the opposite side to Polar right at the start and nothing since then has changed the fact that they (including GOD) chose to be on the opposite side, not Polar.
[/quote]
Fine we chose to be on the opposite side of Polar. That tends to happen when you attack our allies.

Note to everyone: If you want us to choose to oppose you, just attack our allies. That way it'll be our fault when we oppose you.

[King DrunkWino]

[quote name='Bob Janova' date='02 February 2010 - 06:14 PM' timestamp='1265152447' post='2154028']
Polar 'knowingly aligned against' one of SF's allies, yes (\m/) – after talking to the SF alliance which was allied to them. As for 'honouring defensive treaties', as I pointed out [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?app=blog&module=display&section=blog&blogid=20&showentry=1116]here[/url] at least 3 chains of entry (FOK, Stickmen and LEO) and probably 4 (SF) were not obligatory. SF chose to be on the opposite side to Polar right at the start and nothing since then has changed the fact that they (including GOD) chose to be on the opposite side, not Polar.
[/quote]

For one, don't you think it's high time to throw the legalistic viewpoints about this war out of the door?

Second, if you wanted to follow the legalistic approach, the minute R&R was committed to battle, so were the SuperFriends. The second one is involved in a brawl, they are all involved in that brawl via aid, diplomatic help, or flat out military support.

SF didn't chose one side or the other. In this war sides chose their participants.

/'cept TOP and IRON, they willingly chose to dance with CnG

[Lord Brendan]

I'd say FOK was the important point. They had the option to enter or not. Once they went in, and even worse when NSO countered them, ultimate escalation was pretty much inevitable.

I guess this is what happens when you put the fate of the world in the hands of the dutch.

[Doitzel]

AlmightyGrub, Ivan Moldavi is evil!

[hizzy]

[quote name='Delta1212' date='03 February 2010 - 03:16 AM' timestamp='1265152581' post='2154032']
Fine we chose to be on the opposite side of Polar. That tends to happen when you attack our allies.
[/quote]

I swear it's like you chose to acknowledge what he said, and then immediately forget it the very next sentence.

[Bob Janova]

[quote]For one, don't you think it's high time to throw the legalistic viewpoints about this war out of the door?[/quote]
Not when you bring 'honouring treaties' into the argument, no. Personally, as soon as FOK turned it into a coalition war I would consider anyone on the other side to be fair game for someone on this side (whichever you consider 'this' and 'the other'), but then you have no leg to stand on complaining about Polar re-entering on the Polar side.

[quote]That tends to happen when you attack our allies.[/quote]
Are you referring to \m/? Because in the initial DoW thread it was made clear that RoK had been talked to before war was declared.

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='Elyat' date='02 February 2010 - 06:24 PM' timestamp='1265153096' post='2154051']
AlmightyGrub, Ivan Moldavi is evil!
[/quote]

From his point of view, the SuperFriends are evil!

[Turbomammoth]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='02 February 2010 - 06:26 PM' timestamp='1265153184' post='2154056']
From his point of view, the SuperFriends are evil!
[/quote]


No, like in REALLLL evil.

[Tulafaras]

edit: you know what, forget it, i don't have the patience to argue with a brick wall.. Bob is rather obviously not even considering what kind of sophistry he is posting so i cannot be bothered to try to argue against it... Have fun wasting another 40 pages, i'll take my leave of this thread

Edited February 2, 2010 by Tulafaras

[Gn0xious Jr]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' date='02 February 2010 - 02:34 PM' timestamp='1265150078' post='2153948']
I eagerly await NpO to help GR and MK.
[/quote]

I don't expect these discussions to take place on OWF, private channels FTW and all.
Gn0x - MoFA GR

[Bob Janova]

[quote]You are trying to make a case of "us" choosing a side because we activated our treaties in the same conflict where IRON/TOP attacked without a CB or a single treaty correct?
Yes FOK's treaty was an oA, they decided to join and help their ally PC when the negotiations between \m/, PC and NpO stalled because of nitpicking.[/quote]
You did choose a side when you [i]chose[/i] to enter on a non mandatory treaty link, yes. Obviously IRON and TOP chose a side when they entered as well, I don't think that's in question . But that's well after SF had already chosen their side (and you had declared on NSO), so it's not particularly relevant to this part of the war.

[quote]How honorable would FOK have been had they left PC and \m/ alone in a conflict where they were outgunned and the negotiations had stalled? Would you have hailed such an action?[/quote]
Considering there was a very simple peace on the table from day 1, yes I would, and I've made that point in several threads. FOK would have been able to make the most difference by maintaining the threat of war in order to make sure Polar didn't pull any tricks in the negotiation. If it had got to the point where Polar were unjustly keeping their opponents down and military intervention was required to keep them from receiving a beatdown, then sure, go ahead and escalate the war. But that was never the case.

[quote]Frankly Grub knew that PC's allies would not accept them being [b]curbstomped[/b] for long without a reaction.[/quote]
If you read the Polar DoW (not this one) you'll see that PC could walk away at any time. The bolded part is not an accurate reflection of the reality, and that's why your justification (which would be fine if it [i]had[/i] been a stomping) doesn't really work.

[quote]He could have stopped this war after 4-5 days without loosing face, and he could have argued that they "punished" the techraiders. Instead he let it escalate and now we are where we are.[/quote]
With FOK not engaged, but instead applying diplomatic pressure for a quick resolution, I'm sure that would have been the case.

Edit: aw man you edited out and made me waste 2 minutes of quality time

Edited February 2, 2010 by Bob Janova

[kevin32891]

[quote name='Elyat' date='02 February 2010 - 06:24 PM' timestamp='1265153096' post='2154051']
AlmightyGrub, Ivan Moldavi is evil!
[/quote]
Your Jedi mind tricks don't work on Grub.

[TehChron]

[quote name='kevin32891' date='02 February 2010 - 11:46 PM' timestamp='1265154375' post='2154110']
Your Jedi mind tricks don't work on Grub.
[/quote]
No...Actually he is evil.

We already knew that.

[Tulafaras]

[quote name='Bob Janova' date='03 February 2010 - 12:45 AM' timestamp='1265154344' post='2154109']
Edit: aw man you edited out and made me waste 2 minutes of quality time
[/quote]
Sorry, but quite frankly i don't have the patience to continue arguing this. You aren't willing to concede anything and are grasping for straws so quite simply it isn't worth the effort to compose legible replies where i am trying to argue semantics at 1am when i have to get up in 5h to react to the nukes Polar is going to send my way...

[Doitzel]

[quote name='kevin32891' date='02 February 2010 - 06:46 PM' timestamp='1265154375' post='2154110']
Your Jedi mind tricks don't work on Grub.
[/quote]
Some of his recent moves are giving contradictory signals on that account.

[Earogema]

[quote name='Elyat' date='02 February 2010 - 05:54 PM' timestamp='1265154898' post='2154136']
Some of his recent moves are giving contradictory signals on that account.
[/quote]
Doitzel: Manipulating Grub since 2010.

JEDI SCUM