Vanguard Edict

[Teriethien]

I await your DoW's on all alliances not following the letter of their charters.

But our CB is a different issue, is it not? I'm saying that you can't say frame the conflict in terms of Polar limiting the freedom of \m/ to pursue an activitiy, if the latter has voluntarily rejected the right to do so in the first place.

[Penguin]

I await your DoW's on all alliances not following the letter of their charters.

That would be twisting the reasons for this war. This was an attack solely for the purpose of "doing something about" the breach of a long-held standard in this world--raiding established alliances. The fact that the exact standard is written directly into \m/'s charter is not part of the cause at all but effectively illustrates that the standard is deeply ingrained in all alliances and that we are not asking for much.

[Salmia]

Congratulations on the bloc I guess.

[Bob]

Congratulations on the bloc I guess.

Vanguard is not a member of Stickmen. Its a de facto bloc, but not an actual one.

[Zombie Glaucon]

I have none.

Then why would you defend your friends or yourself when attacked? How do you determine what actions you will take?

[Salmia]

More headaches legalese wise >_<

[Bob]

Then why would you defend your friends or yourself when attacked? How do you determine what actions you will take?

Why?

Because they are your friends?

[Earogema]

Why?

Because they are your friends?

I believe his point was that the willingness to defend a friend would be a moral ideal.

[Irish Wolf]

Finally! Welcome to purple, Vanguard!

[Ejayrazz]

Why on earth are people !@#$%*ing? It's between them, let them do what they wish.

[Bob]

Why on earth are people !@#$%*ing? It's between them, let them do what they wish.

People !@#$%* Ejay. You know that friend.

[Stetson76]

Vanguard is not a member of Stickmen. Its a de facto bloc, but not an actual one.

Wow, it is amazing how often the meaning of things have been twisted in the last few months.

- declaring war on an alliance = tech raid

- joining a bloc i.e. signing a treaty with the bloc and not the individual members = "de facto bloc", but not an actual one

- friends (who might be defended depending on what our new invisible FA structure dictates) = allies

- an ally of an ally = an ally

- do not tech raid alliances, which mean any group of 10 or more nations = screw our own charter, attack, attack, attack!

<sigh>

Wake me up when the terms have all been redefined to your liking and we can have a debate then.

[Bob]

Wow, it is amazing how often the meaning of things have been twisted in the last few months.

- declaring war on an alliance = tech raid

- joining a bloc i.e. signing a treaty with the bloc and not the individual members = "de facto bloc", but not an actual one

- friends (who might be defended depending on what our new invisible FA structure dictates) = allies

- an ally of an ally = an ally

- do not tech raid alliances, which mean any group of 10 or more nations = screw our own charter, attack, attack, attack!

<sigh>

Wake me up when the terms have all been redefined to your liking and we can have a debate then.

To have an actual bloc, you have to sign the bloc treaty. They did not, and as such they are not a part of the Stickmen. They will not be a part of the Stickmen unless they join the bloc.

They didn't sign the formal treaty to join the bloc, so they are not in the bloc. They are not in the bloc because they only signed with all of the members of it, but didn't join the bloc. This creates a de facto bloc, as all of the parties are treatied to each other yet there is no formality between it.

De facto bloc has existed since early 2008 at least as a part of CN terminology, I don't quite know what you are on about here, but I tried to reword it in several different ways so you could understand.

To explain /even more/, a bloc is a huge thing for most alliances, as it shows a level of comfort and trust beyond that of your standard MDoAP partners. You may like an alliance a lot, like clearly all of Stickmen does with Vanguard, but you don't feel comfortable with them joining the community of your bloc.

Edited January 26, 2010 by Penlugue Solaris

[Jens of the desert]

To every single person defending \m/ and more specifically to PC, FOK and Stickmen. You are all disgusting because by defending your "ally" you defend racism. By defending Racism you support that not everybody is equal, you support that minorities deserve to be looked down upon, by defending \m/ you are defending racism itself. Shame on you all. This isn't about morality, this is about human rights which was infringed upon by \m/. This is a just war, and saying you aren't supporting this is just a blatant lie you could have easily all canceled on \m/ and avoided the whole thing, instead you support it and by supporting it you support it's behavior and it's behavior is to look down unto the minorities, wrongly, unjustly, and unfairly.

Shame on everybody who defends Racism and a lowering of the standard of human rights and equality.

This is a joke, right?

[Duckz3]

To every single person defending \m/ and more specifically to PC, FOK and Stickmen. You are all disgusting because by defending your "ally" you defend racism. By defending Racism you support that not everybody is equal, you support that minorities deserve to be looked down upon, by defending \m/ you are defending racism itself. Shame on you all. This isn't about morality, this is about human rights which was infringed upon by \m/. This is a just war, and saying you aren't supporting this is just a blatant lie you could have easily all canceled on \m/ and avoided the whole thing, instead you support it and by supporting it you support it's behavior and it's behavior is to look down unto the minorities, wrongly, unjustly, and unfairly.

Shame on everybody who defends Racism and a lowering of the standard of human rights and equality.

Really? because Im pretty sure we where just following our treaties.

[Syrik]

To every single person defending \m/ and more specifically to PC, FOK and Stickmen. You are all disgusting because by defending your "ally" you defend racism. By defending Racism you support that not everybody is equal, you support that minorities deserve to be looked down upon, by defending \m/ you are defending racism itself. Shame on you all. This isn't about morality, this is about human rights which was infringed upon by \m/. This is a just war, and saying you aren't supporting this is just a blatant lie you could have easily all canceled on \m/ and avoided the whole thing, instead you support it and by supporting it you support it's behavior and it's behavior is to look down unto the minorities, wrongly, unjustly, and unfairly.

Shame on everybody who defends Racism and a lowering of the standard of human rights and equality.

Racism is an OOC concept. This is an IC forum.

That being said, I suppose we could have color-ism. In that case I am colorist against all supporters of the idea that Polar can tell other alliances how to govern themselves.

[Shodemofi-NPO]

Well gee, that's just completely and utterly false.

Oh come on, no it's not. Support for taking down the NPO had been growing all year, the alliances that came to be known as Karma were looking for an excuse to attack them, you're deluding yourself if you think all those alliances really came to bat for OV.

[Denial]

Oh come on, no it's not. Support for taking down the NPO had been growing all year, the alliances that came to be known as Karma were looking for an excuse to attack them, you're deluding yourself if you think all those alliances really came to bat for OV.

No, not all Karma alliances entered the conflict to defend Ordo Verde, as not every Karma alliance held a treaty with Ordo Verde. They did, however, hold treaties with those direct allies of Ordo Verde, which allowed for the conflict to snowball and for Pacifican aggression to be checked and rejected.

[Bob Janova]

For the purposes of the MDP web, this treaty is hereby dubbed 'Velociraptor'.

[Iosif]

- joining a bloc i.e. signing a treaty with the bloc and not the individual members = "de facto bloc", but not an actual one

They are not part of the Stickmen by any definition, really. They are allied to the Stickmen, but the Stickmen go beyond merely obligation to defend each other. For example, Vanguard does not have any kind of representation within actual organs of decision-making within the Stickmen, there's no Vanguardians in our private channels. Vanguard's military operations are organized by Vanguard, the Stickmen's military operations are organized centrally by the Stickmen. Vanguard is not in purple, whereas the Stickmen are a purple bloc, et cetera, et cetera.

Besides all this, they're not officially part of the Stickmen. If we don't call it a potato and it does not resemble a potato it ain't a bloody potato.

[kriekfreak]

For the purposes of the MDP web, this treaty is hereby dubbed 'Velociraptor'.

I kinda like the name. Can I ask how did you come up with it? Is it cause a Velociraptor flies above everything?

[HeinousOne]

Racism is an OOC concept. This is an IC forum.

That being said, I suppose we could have color-ism. In that case I am colorist against all supporters of the idea that Polar can tell other alliances how to govern themselves.

Primary Ethnic Group: [insert your nation's here]

Racism is a viable aspect of this world if you want to be like that Syrik. Races exist in our nations so your little e-lawyering attempt fails pretty badly. Racist attacks upon a person that leads a nation in this game and in this case is the leader of an entire alliance then yes they are very much IC. Nice attempt to try and cover up the deplorable acts of those you are directly supporting in this war.

Edited January 26, 2010 by HeinousOne

[Iosif]

I kinda like the name. Can I ask how did you come up with it? Is it cause a Velociraptor flies above everything?

It might also have something to do with bicycles, who doesn't like bicycles?

[pezstar]

To every single person defending \m/ and more specifically to PC, FOK and Stickmen. You are all disgusting because by defending your "ally" you defend racism. By defending Racism you support that not everybody is equal, you support that minorities deserve to be looked down upon, by defending \m/ you are defending racism itself. Shame on you all. This isn't about morality, this is about human rights which was infringed upon by \m/. This is a just war, and saying you aren't supporting this is just a blatant lie you could have easily all canceled on \m/ and avoided the whole thing, instead you support it and by supporting it you support it's behavior and it's behavior is to look down unto the minorities, wrongly, unjustly, and unfairly.

Shame on everybody who defends Racism and a lowering of the standard of human rights and equality.

STA is not fighting to stop racism. We don't give a crap about "racism". We even recognize that this wasn't overt racism on \m/'s part, but something they find funny. We don't find it funny, but we don't care about it either, and it's certainly not why we fight. We fight because our brothers in Polaris need us, and that is that. The quoted argument is amongst the most absurd I've witnessed on the forums, and that's saying a lot.

[Bob Janova]

Arexes, from here (the OP):

Vanguard: On the count of three, name your favorite dinosaur. Don't even think about it. Just name it. Ready? One, two, three.

Vanguard, Stickmen: Velociraptor.