Imperial Decree - New Polar Order

[Ivan Moldavi]

I agree with you that whatever language \m/ used wasn't a good idea, but I seriously have a hard time believing a war should have come out of this.

OOC: If you want war, why not make it yourself?

I tried but you guys said no.

[SWAT128]

I tried but you guys said no.

Maybe another time?

[Comrade Korey]

Why is it that when theres no wars you complain, yet when there is a war you all cry injustice? Anyway this wasn't to entertain the masses, because obviously it isn't the most popular decision. It is because us Polars believe it is the correct course of action, whether or not people agree.

o/ Polaris

Edited January 21, 2010 by Comrade Korey

[Ivan Moldavi]

Maybe another time?

We will see. I am just hoping I will be glowing green by the end of the weekend.

[Nizzle]

If you don't think \m/ did anything wrong I have a hard time understanding how you cna support this war. Unless you think attacking people you disagree with should be the new standard.

I think neither did anything wrong and thus I don't know why people are crying. Each made a decision that was valid. It's not fair to say Polar attacked \m/ simply because they didn't like them. Even if that was a part of it, there are other pieces. Also, wars are generally not fought between people who agree. Just an FYI.

As I pointed out in an earlier post (hidden deep within the thread) the OP doesn't give a satisfactory answer to that at all. It states that \m/ decides when this will stop but it gives no clear reason to why the war even started. Grub has made a few posts but not a single time said what he expects to get from \m/ so saying that \m/ decides when this will end seems very dishonest.

I'm quite positive he has stated \m/ knows what they need to do. It's his discretion to share with the rest. Peace agreements aren't discussed on the OWF as you well know from TPF.

Also no I'm not ranting about this because I like \m/ so much. I don't like the idea of alliances rolling others for no reason suddenly get support. The situation doesn't compare to what \m/ has done. They've tech raided as I said before. They've gone in to do minimum damage while this is a war where the goal is to hurt \m/.

You can't have it both ways. Tech raiding such a large alliance is attacking without cause. NpO at least has presented some cause for attacking \m/. Each are free to do as they please and deal with the consequences. NpO outlined why they are hurting \m/, this didn't come out of nowhere as a surprise attack. Many disagree with the tech raid conducted, as many did with Athens/FoB. That's why you see the support.

Oh, and cause everyone is bored.

People think it's right this time around because they don't like \m/. I actually hope polars takes a shot at forced disbandment because I'd love to see you guys support that. Hypocricy warms my heart.

That's not why people think it's right. Well, not everyone anyway. I sincerely hope Polaris doesn't take a shot at forced disbandment, because that would make them verifiable hypocrits at least three times in this thread. They've stated no reps will be taken and peace is "easy to attain." The question becomes: Is peace really easy to attain and if so will \m/ accept it?

[HeinousOne]

I agree with you that whatever language \m/ used wasn't a good idea, but I seriously have a hard time believing a war should have come out of this.

OOC: If you want war, why not make it yourself?

Did you have a hard time believing that war should have come from the TPF situation? No actual harmful actions were ever taken, just intent. Some might say that intent is enough of an INSULT to be worthy of war and such was acted upon.

OOC: Because I would then be acting OOCly right? I would rather not continue in a line of OOC questioning here, feel free to pm me if you are actually interested.

[Il Impero Romano]

Uproar ensues over Grub having no business being offended or trying to help Bob retain citizens.

Meh, I think the uproar and support is split equally actually.

[King Srqt]

nitpick, budding your nose into a situation you are not involved in, and then issueing demands is a provocation as well.

If Grub's response to the recent raids had been something along the lines of: "we consider it base and crass to bully alliances weaker than you, therefor we offer a blanket statement of protection for any alliance that wishes it, they need only come forth and ask for it" they would have been in the right, and most likely achieved widely positive PR.

Instead they bulldozed their way into an already resolved conflict and picked a single agressor out to bully them instead. Well done!

(Note i am still not defending the slurs on IRC Grubb received as a response. Frankly any player should be mature enough to be able to say: "No and stay out of here" without resorting to insults.)

Honestly, I am so sick of the "butting your nose in something your are not involved in" argument. You do not have to have a treaty with someone to have the right to involve yourself in a situation. War is a global concern regardless of the scale and if Polaris feels that the war that \m/ took part in was wrong it is their business and they have every right to respond accordingly.

If the sense of security tech raiders feel in attacking small non treatied alliances is taken away maybe we will see less alliances get raided, and I for one am all for that.

[Ivan Moldavi]

Honestly, I am so sick of the "butting your nose in something your are not involved in" argument. You do not have to have a treaty with someone to have the right to involve yourself in a situation. War is a global concern regardless of the scale and if Polaris feels that the war that \m/ took part in was wrong it is their business and they have every right to respond accordingly.

If the sense of security tech raiders feel in attacking small non treatied alliances is taken away maybe we will see less alliances get raided, and I for one am all for that.

I am just glad to see so many supporting the ideals of the Moldavi Doctrine.

[HeinousOne]

Meh, I think the uproar and support is split equally actually.

Then the circle surrounding the scuffle should be perfectly formed. Friends will be friends and know when to jump in and pull back their friend so no serious permanent damage is done over an insult. An insult deserves a scuffle, not hospital time though.

[King Srqt]

I am just glad to see so many supporting the ideals of the Moldavi Doctrine.

It is, in fact, one of my favorite pieces of literature on Bob.

[UberSpion]

I could go bully my way into some of purple's affairs, and as soon as they start insulting me for being where I don't belong, am I supposed to then declare war on them, when it was I who initiated it? That's terrible logic.

In light of the usual "Why do you continue to punish planet bob with your continued existence?" comments towards myself, and the overall uber-hate pouring from your clogged e-pores. I have to agree with this statement.

[Timmmehhh]

Isn't this like the 2d time Polaris puts their allies in a nasty position by out of the blue attacking an ally of an ally? I remember them attacking FIST out of nowhere who were a protecterate of the Viridian Entente who was at the time a very good friends of Polaris. Wouldn't it been better to attack Poison clan instead who doesn't share any mutual allies with Polaris?

[SWAT128]

Did you have a hard time believing that war should have come from the TPF situation? No actual harmful actions were ever taken, just intent. Some might say that intent is enough of an INSULT to be worthy of war and such was acted upon.

OOC: Because I would then be acting OOCly right? I would rather not continue in a line of OOC questioning here, feel free to pm me if you are actually interested.

I see the formation of an alliance solely to cause discontent in another as taking action, but that's a different discussion.

[Trace]

Well its true I am not fully up to date on the situation and it will probably have to remain that way as I dont care to invest the time in going around to all parties to get the full story but you are telling a friend to act more friendly to you when you aren't really acting all that friendly to them.

When they effectively spit in the faces of their friends, what does that say?

I would bet that the mouthy little friend that you are defending verbally is standing back in the shadows laughing at all the chaos they are causing and how they are moving the world so easily.

I just want to make it clear, that I detest \m/ and do enjoy seeing them mangled, but this was a terrible way for Polar to go about doing it. They lost a lot of respect on this one, when they really had nothing to lose from the start, by just not involving themselves.

You could be pushing to make sure its just a small short term scuffle between two friends but instead you want to insult one of your friends for standing up for their beliefs. I could be wrong for sure but that is what I am perceiving here. I realize you speak for yourself in this just as I do so I am not trying to put this on MK as I saw someone trying to attribute to my words earlier.

My only 'friend' involved is Polar, but their actions make me question just how highly they actually value their friendships, if those friendships happen to stand in the way of some moralistic crusade that Grub appears to be on. And yes, I only speak for myself. Archon already spoke for MK. I never interpreted your words as otherwise. I do <3 me some STA.

[delendum]

Sounds like a great reason for a short scuffle to me. Then again, my nation is aging quickly and dying out.

OOC: The boredom of this world kills me, short wars like this are a good thing in my opinion/ooc

Well its true I am not fully up to date on the situation and it will probably have to remain that way as I dont care to invest the time in going around to all parties to get the full story but you are telling a friend to act more friendly to you when you aren't really acting all that friendly to them.

I would bet that the mouthy little friend that you are defending verbally is standing back in the shadows laughing at all the chaos they are causing and how they are moving the world so easily.

You could be pushing to make sure its just a small short term scuffle between two friends but instead you want to insult one of your friends for standing up for their beliefs. I could be wrong for sure but that is what I am perceiving here. I realize you speak for yourself in this just as I do so I am not trying to put this on MK as I saw someone trying to attribute to my words earlier.

Your argument goes both ways. As a friend, you could be more open to finding any kind of solution other than attacking said alliance, especially when you're only there out of your own will and nothing else. Polar's desire to attack \m/ was obviously stronger than their willingness to act in the spirit of being allies. Right now, my desire to express my view is stronger than my willingness to shut up or try and support their move based on a treaty we share together. I'm sure Polar understands this thought process and thus the challenging comments that come from people allied to them. After all, they pioneered this approach.

Edited January 21, 2010 by delendum

[Tick1]

Then it should be easy for both sides allies to sit back and say the best thing we can do as allies and friends to these guys is to let them get bloody. Everyone form up a circle and let them get their licks in but be ready to be friends that know when to say enough is enough. Although I would hope my friend Grub would know when that point is already. I would agree with anyone that says that this isn't really worth a full beat down.

You know I completely disagree with your statements, you should have listened to your allies and not attacked \m/. The reasoning being is because you show how little you actually care about FoA. If you believe alliance raids are unjust then you should offer or find them a protectorate and help them rebuild after the incident. Not declare war and possible bring upon another great war, but you guys clearly are oblivious to anything your allies want.

\m/ I salute you on sticking to your words and not giving in to those forcing their beliefs upon you even with a gun down your throat. This show more honor than disgrace even if this is considered an evil thing to do. NpO shame on you for crusading upon the weaker so you can earn a few point even though I don't believe your point count went up after this event.

Anyhow I tip my hat of to you Grub since this is clearly the smartest move you'd made in a long time.

[neneko]

I think neither did anything wrong and thus I don't know why people are crying. Each made a decision that was valid. It's not fair to say Polar attacked \m/ simply because they didn't like them. Even if that was a part of it, there are other pieces. Also, wars are generally not fought between people who agree. Just an FYI.

I could have sworn I saw you complain about non-valid cbs in another conflict. I guess it was too long ago to remember. It must have been over a month by now. How can a cb not be valid if disagreeing on a non-specified issue is a valid one? You hypocricy amuses me.

I'm quite positive he has stated \m/ knows what they need to do. It's his discretion to share with the rest. Peace agreements aren't discussed on the OWF as you well know from TPF.

Forgive me for not taking grubs word for it. I very much doubt they have given \m/ any way out of this actually.

You can't have it both ways. Tech raiding such a large alliance is attacking without cause. NpO at least has presented some cause for attacking \m/. Each are free to do as they please and deal with the consequences. NpO outlined why they are hurting \m/, this didn't come out of nowhere as a surprise attack. Many disagree with the tech raid conducted, as many did with Athens/FoB. That's why you see the support.

Oh, and cause everyone is bored.

What was their cause again? I keep forgetting that.

The difference as I stated in my last two posts betwen \m/s attacks and this is that the tech raids they performed was limited to a single war session with minimum damage. Polar is going for highest possible damage for a unkown ammount of time.

The part about each is free to do as they please and deal with the consequences is nice to see. Glad you went back to the might makes right line. Warms my heart.

That's not why people think it's right. Well, not everyone anyway. I sincerely hope Polaris doesn't take a shot at forced disbandment, because that would make them verifiable hypocrits at least three times in this thread. They've stated no reps will be taken and peace is "easy to attain." The question becomes: Is peace really easy to attain and if so will \m/ accept it?

We'll see how it turns out when/if this war ends.

[Chief Savage Man]

For the love of God, instead of getting mired in analogies about \m/ being an obnoxious 12-year old or whatever, can we please stick to the facts? I always enjoy some meaningful debate over serious issues like tech raiding and NpO's right to police the game like this but I really don't want to see the controversy over this degenerate into analogies, red herrings, technicalities and ancient comparisons that have nothing to do with anything.

[Tigerdonia Redux]

Congrats to NpO for standing up for something you believe in! Haters gonna hate.

[Tick1]

Please don't advocate for people to attack your allies, it is rather poor form :/

My statement was rather in sarcasm then delight, but take what you want from it.

[Alterego]

Best DoW ever, good luck Polaris. o/

[Tick1]

Congrats to NpO for standing up for something you believe in! Haters gonna hate.

Yet, you don't congratulate \m/ for standing up for what they believe in?

[Seerow]

Sounds like a great reason for a short scuffle to me. Then again, my nation is aging quickly and dying out.

OOC: The boredom of this world kills me, short wars like this are a good thing in my opinion/ooc

Well its true I am not fully up to date on the situation and it will probably have to remain that way as I dont care to invest the time in going around to all parties to get the full story but you are telling a friend to act more friendly to you when you aren't really acting all that friendly to them.

I would bet that the mouthy little friend that you are defending verbally is standing back in the shadows laughing at all the chaos they are causing and how they are moving the world so easily.

You could be pushing to make sure its just a small short term scuffle between two friends but instead you want to insult one of your friends for standing up for their beliefs. I could be wrong for sure but that is what I am perceiving here. I realize you speak for yourself in this just as I do so I am not trying to put this on MK as I saw someone trying to attribute to my words earlier.

To be clear \m/ is no friend of MK. Even those criticizing Polar or defending \m/ as far as I know don't have any particular love for \m/. This isn't a scuffle between friends, this is a friend rolling someone that most of MK really doesn't like.

The reason that we have some MK members who are very much not liking Polar's actions here isn't because they like \m/, but rather because \m/ is directly allied to one of NpO's direct allies, RoK, putting RoK in a very difficult situation. Remember not too long ago Grub threatened to put MK in a similar situation as RoK is now, when they threatened Athens over the KoN situation. That case was resolved peacefully, but the threat left a bad taste in many of our mouths. We had hoped that Polar had learned from the experience and would avoid putting allies in difficult situations like that again, then we get this war with the same situation all over again.

Personally, I don't care. I don't like \m/, don't particularly care about RoK's feelings, and enjoy seeing for once someone doing something about it. I've got a rather large box of popcorn and am enjoying the show thoroughly. However even though we don't have a direct stake in this conflict besides being a Polar ally, it doesn't mean that our membership can't disagree with Polars actions, because many fear that this will become a pattern, which is something nobody wants.

Edited January 21, 2010 by Seerow

[delendum]

Congrats to NpO for standing up for something you believe in! Haters gonna hate.

You could also congratulate them for putting their allies in a terrible position. Why do you think it was Polar and Polar only that actually took steps against this "grave injustice"? Because they were the only ones willing to take a piss on most of everything else in order to do it.

When you've got your allies questioning your move and outside people cheering, you know you're doing something wrong.