The Coincidence Coalition

[Infidel Israeli]

There certainly wasn't a distinction when Athens&Co were complaining about no one helping TPF. I understand we are at a pivotal point in the propaganda phase, but the transition wasn't exactly a good one.

And timing my friend, timing.

[23:27:39] <Desperado`> We will be around tommorow.

[23:27:45] <Desperado`> Good Niught.

Whoops, yes peace talks are ongoing.

Got me there, didn't see that part. I take my statement back.

[Dochartaigh]

CC is about diplomacy, but diplomacy doesnt mean getting your $@! handed to you for nearly a week and then agree to white peace for a cb that you think is bs. and I cant really comment on TPF's white peace offer. When did that happene? yesterday, 2nd day of war, 3rd day of war?

fairly certain that talks had been under way for several days. as for the nearly a week.... umm... seriously NPO is complaining bout one week of war when they usually do much longer prior to even going to the table? at least Athens and Co was at the table basically near the beginning of this war.

and CC can't be about diplomacy otherwise yall would be pissed about TPF walking out on diplomacy. thus, it is simply a lie that ya'll used to smear Athens.

@Vlad- peace was offered and TPF walked out. by your own standards, if Athens and Co should come out the winner, why should they not simply walk out the moment CC offers terms that Athens and Co wants? it is obviously quite alright to do so by CC's postings.

i mean why shouldn't CC get punished for defending TPF in their aggression against Athens?

see, i can pull all your bs arguments against ya'll.

[Matthew Conrad]

Yes TOP was mind controlling Athens and got them to attack TPF, yep thats exactly what happened.

I want to think that that didn't fly over your head but after your previous attempts to put forth an argument, I'm starting to doubt myself.

[Vladimir Stukov II]

The comedy show has more been your poor attempts at spin. I doubt anyone is unwilling to fight, more like why did they choose to attack right when white peace was offered.

Are you kidding? You think we came up with a plan to attack once we saw TPF's enemies offer white peace and magically got 17 alliances together to issue DoWs 5 minutes later? The real question is why did TPF's attackers wait till CC was going to attack to offer white peace.

[Joe Kremlin]

Congrats, TOP, you got your proxy war.

2010?

[greatmagnus]

Protip: White peace has no terms. When people spout out that "Terms had not been finalized" it is nothing but a giant "Oh ****" about the PR backlash that just whipped them right across the face. The second white peace is offered, the terms of said peace are done. TPF wanted white peace, was offered, and then walked out stating "[2010-01-01 23:27:35] <Desperado`> Ok, this doesnt seem to have gotten anywhere". Gee, you got what you wanted, and now you say it did not go anywhere.

Second Protip: Stopping an attack is easy, and we all know it. Takes 30 seconds in the govt channel that I am sure exists, and another 30 for each alliance channel. Add a final 30 if an alliance fragments itself into multiple battalion/platoon/whatever channels. Anything else is again fishing in the dark for the enormous backlash that whipped someone right across the face.

[Kzoppistan]

honestly, i don't care what terms were offered. that was up to Athens and Co not me. as for prior to this does not matter when TPF asked only for white peace and got what they wanted and then walked out.

After all that is done, white peace is almost a slap in the face.

you keep shifting. first you state white peace would have been okay as TPF could have been rebuilt and then state that white peace is not ok and Athens should be hit?

What I would have done in a situation is much different from what the majority of people would do. Also, if I did accept white peace, it wouldn't have been "ok", it would have been a sacrifice for the sake of my alliance and friends. That doesn't make not taking white peace wrong.

yes, it was a fast one that is why the only term that was ever on the table was an admission of guilt. no other terms were ever offered. so yes, total white peace is completely some ploy used to make ya'll look bad.

If I came up and punched in the face and while you standing there holding your nose all of your friends came around the corner, do you think me saying "Ok, ok, here's white peace" that I should be let off?

That's BS and everybody knows it.

i would see if Athens and Co had demanded reps and other terms but to my knowledge nothing but an admission of guilt was ever on the table. so your claim just looks ridiculous.

My claims are justified and solid. If Athens and co. truly wanted peace they would have made acceptable offers. This is nothing more than a PR ploy.

[Nizzle]

The comedy show has more been your poor attempts at spin. I doubt anyone is unwilling to fight, more like why did they choose to attack right when white peace was offered.

I haven't seen bigwoody speak at all, really, aside from that.

I'm also positive that, as some of you say, "It took 6 days to plan" but...less than 5 minutes to go to war? Seriously? Is that the new line? "Once TPF was offered peace they decided to attack?"

[Dochartaigh]

Really? Because you didn't say you found it honorable. You may want to find a better way of wording things you say. It's either honorable that they complied with LM or it's not.

the fact that they accepted the delay for LM. i do not find the fact that most likely they used it to build a coalition so that TPF could walk out of negotiations once white peace was offered. i would figure CC would be pissed given ya'lls stance on diplomacy. to have your main alliance walk out on diplomatic talks while you guys spewed at the mouth about diplomacy or lack thereof by Athens..... hypocrites.

[silentkiller]

fairly certain that talks had been under way for several days. as for the nearly a week.... umm... seriously NPO is complaining bout one week of war when they usually do much longer prior to even going to the table? at least Athens and Co was at the table basically near the beginning of this war.

and CC can't be about diplomacy otherwise yall would be pissed about TPF walking out on diplomacy. thus, it is simply a lie that ya'll used to smear Athens.

@Vlad- peace was offered and TPF walked out. by your own standards, if Athens and Co should come out the winner, why should they not simply walk out the moment CC offers terms that Athens and Co wants? it is obviously quite alright to do so by CC's postings.

i mean why shouldn't CC get punished for defending TPF in their aggression against Athens?

see, i can pull all your bs arguments against ya'll.

Yeah but you see unlike Athens and co each war that we have gone to as far as I know(from the time I joined Cn anyway) they have negotiated witht the alliance in question first.

Edited January 2, 2010 by silentkiller

[Michael McBride]

Yes TOP was mind controlling Athens and got them to attack TPF, yep thats exactly what happened.

I'm going to assume you're actually smart enough to know what it ACTUALLY meant, and are just playing dumb.

2010?

I'm assuming all this planning did not take place since last night. So they started planning in 2009.

[Nizzle]

Protip: White peace has no terms. When people spout out that "Terms had not been finalized" it is nothing but a giant "Oh ****" about the PR backlash that just whipped them right across the face. The second white peace is offered, the terms of said peace are done.

I wish we knew it was that easy. We've been doing this wrong for years. So, just so I am clear, once they say they agree to white peace...it's all done?

Second Protip: Stopping an attack is easy, and we all know it. Takes 30 seconds in the govt channel that I am sure exists, and another 30 for each alliance channel. Add a final 30 if an alliance fragments itself into multiple battalion/platoon/whatever channels.

Declaring a ceasefire would have been just as easy. Or, you know, finalizing said white peace right now and ignoring the EXPECTED war declarations that you all were begging for.

Oh, wait, there is no finalizing. Once you say white peace Holy Admin generates an automatic thread, which takes neither side, and declares it for you. There is no bickering over the wording, who will post it, getting signatures, etc.

Sorry, friend, merely saying "OK white peace" is not the end of negotiations.

[Matthew Conrad]

Are you kidding? You think we came up with a plan to attack once we saw TPF's enemies offer white peace and magically got 17 alliances together to issue DoWs 5 minutes later? The real question is why did TPF's attackers wait till CC was going to attack to offer white peace.

Are you implying it was that difficult for TPF to go around to their allies on IRC and type up a "hold on"? If you had read any of my previous posts, you would go ahead and address that question. Also, not exactly sure how talks "wasn't going anywhere". Usually it's offer - counteroffer, not offer - alright see you guys tomorrow. Maybe it's just a revolutionary way to negotiate.

Once again, it's a mystery why TPF decided not to inform their allies of talks if they were only planning on sending in 20ish nations tonight and why they walked out of talks some people claim are still ongoing.

[ChairmanHal]

You know, I don't actually whore out my PR services. I didn't even know peace talks were going on. Londo sure is skilled with a marionette.

Oh don't be modest...not now in your moment of triumph.

You have a thing for logs...Pacifica taught you well...the problem is that you don't have a thing for context.

The logs in question here were no doubt brought forth by you as a pure and simple propaganda ploy. Nothing more, nothing less. Make the mean old NPO lovers look like they are issuing DoWs during "sincere" peace talks. Spare Planet Bob.

Athens & Co. are grown up alliances and knew what might happen. They could not avert a major war with mere words, nor last minute peace talks--that train left the station and it wasn't stopping to take screen shots. This will be a more violent world now for a time and there is no guarantee that the "right" side will win. I'm sorry that the post-Karma War world isn't working out like you planned.

[silentkiller]

I want to think that that didn't fly over your head but after your previous attempts to put forth an argument, I'm starting to doubt myself.

I'm going to assume you're actually smart enough to know what it ACTUALLY meant, and are just playing dumb.

I'm assuming all this planning did not take place since last night. So they started planning in 2009.

Thats what you get for not reading the entire poster and being awake all night.

[Michael McBride]

Thats what you get for not reading the entire poster and being awake all night.

No worries. The supreme overlords forgive you.

[Nizzle]

the fact that they accepted the delay for LM. i do not find the fact that most likely they used it to build a coalition so that TPF could walk out of negotiations once white peace was offered.

What else would you do with a delay? Remain at the same level of unpreparedness? Seriously?

i would figure CC would be pissed given ya'lls stance on diplomacy. to have your main alliance walk out on diplomatic talks while you guys spewed at the mouth about diplomacy or lack thereof by Athens..... hypocrites.

Walk out =/= Saying it isn't going anywhere and stating you will be back tomorrow. I think that needs to get cleared up. What Karma did during the last war was walking out. This? Not so much.

Also, there is a proven lack of diplomacy by Athens. If white peace was all they wanted, it could have been reached days ago when talks started. Another proof of their lack of diplomacy? The fact this war even happened.

[pasquali]

Congrats, TOP, you got your proxy war.

Yup... TOP is the ones who made Athensco attack TPF. Yup. Hit the nail on the head there. Obviously exactly what happened.

Take a look at C&G if you want to find the engineers of this mess.

[der_ko]

Sorry, friend, merely saying "OK white peace" is not the end of negotiations.

White peace is peace without any strings attached. Once you both want white peace there's nothing left to negotiate. You just stop fighting each other.

TPF: We want white peace.

Athens/RoK: Alright, we want white peace too.

TPF: This is getting nowhere, we're out of here.

[Matthew Conrad]

I haven't seen bigwoody speak at all, really, aside from that.

I'm also positive that, as some of you say, "It took 6 days to plan" but...less than 5 minutes to go to war? Seriously? Is that the new line? "Once TPF was offered peace they decided to attack?"

Well maybe you should read more. Not sure why you expect me to see only the posts you've seen.

Also, I guess your streak of ignoring previous posts continues. Please go back and read mine, might help you some.

Protip: explain to me how difficult it was for TPF to send their allies messages on IRC. I imagine typing 3 words in query can't be that hard.

[LiquidMercury]

Your explanation may be true, but it also doesn't make any sense. How could one person possibly prevent all these alliances from going to war for several days? Are they seriously that incompetent, or are you, as someone said earlier, some kind of wizard?

Avatar changed

[Nizzle]

Are you implying it was that difficult for TPF to go around to their allies on IRC and type up a "hold on"? If you had read any of my previous posts, you would go ahead and address that question. Also, not exactly sure how talks "wasn't going anywhere". Usually it's offer - counteroffer, not offer - alright see you guys tomorrow. Maybe it's just a revolutionary way to negotiate.

Peace talks have never been paused before? Really? They go on for days at a time, straight through?

It's amazing why the notion of white peace magically appeared in the minds of Athens&Co five minutes before update as opposed to days ago when talks started. It's amazing that no one thought to initiate a ceasefire while talks occured.

[Dochartaigh]

After all that is done, white peace is almost a slap in the face.

What I would have done in a situation is much different from what the majority of people would do. Also, if I did accept white peace, it wouldn't have been "ok", it would have been a sacrifice for the sake of my alliance and friends. That doesn't make not taking white peace wrong.

If I came up and punched in the face and while you standing there holding your nose all of your friends came around the corner, do you think me saying "Ok, ok, here's white peace" that I should be let off?

That's BS and everybody knows it.

My claims are justified and solid. If Athens and co. truly wanted peace they would have made acceptable offers. This is nothing more than a PR ploy.

Athens and CO offered what TP wanted..... what more could they do since ya know, Athens and co also thought they were justified.

your analogy would work more if you did this. "you come up and punch me in the face for something i planned to do several months ago. then 3 of your friends start hitting me and my friends stand around yelling "you guys should have talked to Doch first!@!!!!! and i am yelling "white peace". you and your friends state "no, you must admit guilt" then relent and state "ok, we will stop. white peace." then i get up and run behind my friends while my friends bum rush you."

that works out much better. you keep forgetting where TPF only wanted white peace but reject it the moment they get it. ya'll also forget the several days of negotiations in which ya know !@#$ is negotiated. thus to state it is some ploy simply to avoid a war is ridiculous as most negotiations last for a few days while terms are hashed out. since there was only ever one term on the table, it took a couple of days for them to drop said term. wow, yes totally a ploy to escape CC's wrath.

[Dochartaigh]

So are you saying that you're drinking the cool-aid, too?

At this point, after an unjust attack, ignoring pleas of halting for negotiations, and now the mobilization of TPFs allies as a sufficient counter, it seems that white peace was unreasonable to them. It might have been reasonable days ago. The excessive amount of destruction done to TPF, white peace hardly seems fair.

That they offered white peace doesn't make it wrong to reject it.

If it were me, I would have insisted that they halt their attacks and I would call off my allies for the time being, and we could hash out a reasonable deal without escalation.

However, it seems clear that the majority of Bob wanted war. Well... they got it.

when all TPF wanted was white peace.... umm yes it does. and again the fact that ya'll do not call out TPF for walking out on diplomatic proceedings clearly shows that it was all a smear attempt and nothing more. it shows ya'll are hypocrites.

@Silentkiller- well kind of, there is the one where ya'll attacked in the middle of peace talks though, much like CC did. hmm......

[Michael McBride]

Yup... TOP is the ones who made Athensco attack TPF. Yup. Hit the nail on the head there. Obviously exactly what happened.

Take a look at C&G if you want to find the engineers of this mess.

*facepalm* See, with silent, I could tell something was up. He's not usually that dense. You, I sense a difference vibe coming through the Force.

It is no secret that TOP hates SF and CnG. If you think otherwise, you're denser than Cheyenne Mountain. One of the common rumors emitting from TPF's side of things over the past week has been "We're seeing if TOP will support us". With LM posting this thread, it's obvious they do and they see this as their chance to take down SF and CnG... by proxy. Oh, and they took great pains to keep NpO, one of the only alliances who can devastate their top ranks, out of this so far. Like, having 17 alliances declare on all the alliances at war with TPF except the one who is allied to NpO.

Coincidence Coalition indeed.