Wargarden Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Perhaps you should explain this to Athens and her friends. If this is indeed correct and if TPF did have an MADP with NPO then they were at war with Athens and ROK during the Karma war. So please do tell them to stop saying that they were not. I didn't know they were. Okay, guys, according to my personal opinion you were not, so please stop saying you were. Besides all I'm getting at is that allies are aggressing when their allies aggress even if it is passively. Maybe they're waiting a round or two. Maybe they're holding in reserve for a plan, maybe its just a piece of paper and how interpret OUR treaties is up to US and not somone else. I'm not telling anyone else how to usae their treaties and Archons post was to goad the opposition into action...which they did....sort of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan King Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Did anybody seriously think this was true? ;_;You have all gone into PM. Planning to defend TPF? Liquid Mercury must be running their military too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tequila Mockingbird Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Why would I lose pixels without actually having to??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jtkode Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Mmmk me believes you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shilo Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Supercomplaints just convinced me of their peaceful intentions in this war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eden Taylor Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Supercomplaints have no spines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 In all seriousness, I commend you guys on this. There have been a lot of accusations thrown around due to paranoia on all sides, and I hope we get to a point where we can all be more rational about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
civiclove Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Next time pick better timing for war bro... NEW are still in Christmas spirits... PEACE ALL THE WAY !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigrun Vapneir Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 (edited) This is interesting. Given various statements and actions of the past week, a pretty good justification could have been made for a preëmptive attack. And I think I would be the last one to endorse that tactic, normally. Yet you disavow it unambiguously instead. If nothing else this should put a rest to the notion that this war was aimed at those alliances unfortunate enough to have forgotten to cancel their TPF treaties when terms ran out. Not that there arent committed partisans that will just keep repeating it hurr hurr hurr anyway of course. Perhaps you should explain this to Athens and her friends. If this is indeed correct and if TPF did have an MADP with NPO then they were at war with Athens and ROK during the Karma war. So please do tell them to stop saying that they were not. They werent. You can argue they should have been if you want, but it would be foolish. They dont get to have it both ways, they made the decision not to declare on Athens back then, and in consequence they do not get to come in now, many months later, and change their mind. Sorry. Wargardens just doesnt know what he is talking about. Edited January 1, 2010 by Sigrun Vapneir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigrun Vapneir Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 (edited) duplicate post sorry Edited January 1, 2010 by Sigrun Vapneir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayzie Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 (edited) There's a lot of spins trying to drag people into one side or the other and most, if not all of it is utter bs, make your own judgement and do what you see right, not what you're led to believe. o/ Ilselu1 Edited January 1, 2010 by Mayzie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wintermoon Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 (edited) They werent. You can argue they should have been if you want, but it would be foolish. They dont get to have it both ways, they made the decision not to declare on Athens back then, and in consequence they do not get to come in now, many months later, and change their mind. Sorry. Wargardens just doesnt know what he is talking about. Every MADP and most MDP treaties that I have read state that if you attack one you attack both or all as the case may be. So if TPF did have an MADP treaty with NPO then common sense would dictate that when Athens declared on NPO the also declared on TPF and no amount of saying othewise will make it so. Just because there was no formal declaration or acknowledgment of it does not change the fact that it happened. Also, just because there were on conventional attacks doesn't mean there were no unconventinal attacks which is why this whole war is being fought. So please don't say they were not at war when they clearly were by abiding by thier treaty. Edited January 1, 2010 by wintermoon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerichoholic Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 This denial means nothing because we all know your evil plan is to merge all of CnG and Superfriends into a 2200 member super-alliance and control every single sphere on Bob. Don't bother denying it, rumors can't be wrong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Brendan Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Every MADP and most MDP treaties that I have read state that if you attack one you attack both or all as the case may be. So if TPF did have an MADP treaty with NPO then common sense would dictate that when Athens declared on NPO the also declared on TPF and no amount of saying othewise will make it so. Just because there was no formal declaration or acknowledgment of it does not change the fact that it happened. Also, just because there were on conventional attacks doesn't mean there were no unconventinal attacks which is why this whole war is being fought. So please don't say they were not at war when they clearly were by abiding by thier treaty. Let's ignore for a moment that this interpretation flies in the face of all precedent. If they were at war, seeing as Athens never signed off on their surrender they remain at war, and the current CB is just extra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wickedj Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 This denial means nothing because we all know your evil plan is to merge all of CnG and Superfriends into a 2200 member super-alliance and control every single sphere on Bob. Don't bother denying it, rumors can't be wrong! Stop putting our secrets out in public Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Truck Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 I heard this rumor and had it explained to me as a joke, because C&G is too afraid of losing. Who wants to lose? There's a difference between not wanting to lose - and a pre-emptive attack in this situation would greatly enhance the likelihood of us losing - and being afraid of losing. If Athens was afraid of losing a war then they wouldn't have attacked TPF, yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizzle Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Who wants to lose? There's a difference between not wanting to lose - and a pre-emptive attack in this situation would greatly enhance the likelihood of us losing - and being afraid of losing. If Athens was afraid of losing a war then they wouldn't have attacked TPF, yes? They wouldn't have attacked TPF alone. Just admit it, you guys are scared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxnmike Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Let's ignore for a moment that this interpretation flies in the face of all precedent.If they were at war, seeing as Athens never signed off on their surrender they remain at war, and the current CB is just extra. I don't know, if you attack one you attack both seems pretty hard to misinterpret. Also, the whole surrenders to the forces of Karma thing seems pretty clear. If Athens had a problem with that, they probably should have let someone know back then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Truck Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 They wouldn't have attacked TPF alone.Just admit it, you guys are scared. You either missed my point or, far more likely, you're being obtuse to annoy us. Not attacking TPF would have lowered the possibility of us losing a war to 0%, making it the far better choice if we were scared of defeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiphosis Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Given various statements and actions of the past week, a pretty good justification could have been made for a preëmptive attack. And I think I would be the last one to endorse that tactic, normally. Yet you disavow it unambiguously instead. It's weird, because the same line was said throughout the time leading up to Karma and held true then as well. I guess reading patterns is asking a bit much of your average CNer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 (edited) Who wants to lose? There's a difference between not wanting to lose - and a pre-emptive attack in this situation would greatly enhance the likelihood of us losing - and being afraid of losing. If Athens was afraid of losing a war then they wouldn't have attacked TPF, yes? Bringing over 6 times the NS of the alliance Athens launched a sneak attack against and hounding other allies begging them to get in on the sneak attack shows just how scared Londo and Athens really were. Edited January 1, 2010 by Alterego Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popsumpot Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Bringing over 6 times the NS of the alliance Athens launched a sneak attack against and hounding other allies begging them to get in on the sneak attack shows just how scared Londo and Athens really were. To be fair, the fact that Athens and RoK were the first one in, knowing full well that they would be the first ones to get countered says something. Power addict? Yes. Manipulative? Yes. Hypocritic? Yes. They are many things, cowards they are not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairmanHal Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Who wants to lose? There's a difference between not wanting to lose - and a pre-emptive attack in this situation would greatly enhance the likelihood of us losing - and being afraid of losing. If Athens was afraid of losing a war then they wouldn't have attacked TPF, yes? Your assumption is that Athens didn't look at the situation, and figure that no one would want to get shot up for TPF...or that those who might object would be so slow to react that they would not be able to get organized in time to save TPF from surrendering. It was a calculated gamble--one worth trying if you have confidence that it will be a short war. Of course if you're wrong...well that's Poker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scythegfx Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 You have all gone into PM, you couldn't pre-emp anyone, thanks for the needless confirmation though. You, (TPF's "Allies") sent your low end nations into Peace mode, so we countered by sending our high end nations into Peacemode. Don't get all upset because we effectively countered your strategy, there's a reason we're considered the "Godliest Millitary Empire©" in CN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalfEmpty Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Bringing over 6 times the NS of the alliance Athens launched a sneak attack against and hounding other allies begging them to get in on the sneak attack shows just how scared Londo and Athens really were. They fear me! Altho to be honest 3 times the NS would usually do it.... but then again you gotta remember who's involved. .-.. --- .-.. / .- - .... . -. ... / - .... .- - / .. ... / .- .-.. .-.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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