Announcement from the Godfather of the Family

[Dirty Plunger]

Welcome to the fight I guess, just a point of fact... RLMMO did not declare war on Kronos, we recognized the state of war with Kronos due to the declaration made by phillip110 who apparently has the authority from his alliance to declare wars for them.

So really you are just honoring a treaty to go to war at the whim of phillip110.

phillip110

o/ PUKE

I wubbed you guys

[Nizzle]

Welcome to the fight I guess, just a point of fact... RLMMO did not declare war on Kronos, we recognized the state of war with Kronos due to the declaration made by phillip110 who apparently has the authority from his alliance to declare wars for them.

So really you are just honoring a treaty to go to war at the whim of phillip110.

IDK. I sent your guy a peace offer after I liberated his tech and land.

[lamuella]

I keep reading Reachwind's name as Rincewind and imagining a terrified wizard with a strange set of luggage, running from things.

[Skippy]

Not sure this was necessary considering they already declared on GOONS & Kronos, but enjoy your war nontheless.

[rant]Regardless of whoever is at war with someone, they have an MDoAP, which means they are obliged to go to war with RLLMO or however you spell it. Its not an ODP, not a choice, last I heard, MDP+ means you must go to war in defence of allies.

This is the thing most of CN doesn't pick up. Sure its a curbstomp, but it doesn't matter how big or how small they are. MDP is an MDP.

[/endrant]

[Lord Ditka]

[rant]Regardless of whoever is at war with someone, they have an MDoAP, which means they are obliged to go to war with RLLMO or however you spell it. Its not an ODP, not a choice, last I heard, MDP+ means you must go to war in defence of allies.

This is the thing most of CN doesn't pick up. Sure its a curbstomp, but it doesn't matter how big or how small they are. MDP is an MDP.

[/endrant]

Thank the lord, I've been telling people this all day... 14 or 140 tF rides for its allies nuff said

[lamuella]

[rant]Regardless of whoever is at war with someone, they have an MDoAP, which means they are obliged to go to war with RLLMO or however you spell it. Its not an ODP, not a choice, last I heard, MDP+ means you must go to war in defence of allies.

This is the thing most of CN doesn't pick up. Sure its a curbstomp, but it doesn't matter how big or how small they are. MDP is an MDP.

[/endrant]

depends how the treaty is phrased. Many say you must go to war if asked.

[Skippy]

Technically you're right, but who's to say that Kronos didn't ask tF?

Also, was their treaty one which requires tF to be asked? I didn't read it in detail/memorize it.

[KinKiac]

I wonder if the family meets the criteria for a Kap Bambino smack down. I knew I should of added bandwagoning into my CB list.

Gotta love noobs and/or the ignorant, lol

Are you implying an attack from my single nation would result in you meeting your maker?

Umm, I think it will be kinda hard for you to attack from hippy mode wont it?

EDIT : Oh and Hi Bomber. Edit: wait a minute, this all started form a tech raid? LOL. Have fun guys

Edited December 4, 2009 by KinKiac

[nippy]

This almost makes me want to ghost GOONS or Kronos for a few days...

You sure? I'd hate for you to hit as many war casualties as [ooc]McDonald's[/ooc] has served hamburgers.

Actually, that would be pretty damn sweet.

[KahlanRahl]

Happy hunting tF and Kronos. o/

Ditka

[KahlanRahl]

I keep reading Reachwind's name as Rincewind and imagining a terrified wizard with a strange set of luggage, running from things.

HAHAHA YES!!!!! I am so glad I'm not the only one!!!!

o/ Rincewind

EDIT: crap did i just double-post? *iz sowwy*

Edited December 4, 2009 by KahlanRahl

[Lord Ditka]

Happy hunting tF and Kronos. o/

Ditka

awww shanks sweetie!

[Khyber]

Like GOONS I just wish you accept the fact that Kronos went to war when they allowed their member to declare war on RLMMO. RLMMO simply accepted the state of war and said they would fight tooth and claw. There is nothing different from what Athens did, then what Kronos did but numbers. Just say, we are entering this conflict on the option aggression clause, or if you don't have it, we are entering this war because we are friends with Kronos. Why this weak attemp to make it sound like the first authorized war on the alliances at war was not authorized by Kronos?

[Kewlleo]

Like GOONS I just wish you accept the fact that Kronos went to war when they allowed their member to declare war on RLMMO. RLMMO simply accepted the state of war and said they would fight tooth and claw. There is nothing different from what Athens did, then what Kronos did but numbers. Just say, we are entering this conflict on the option aggression clause, or if you don't have it, we are entering this war because we are friends with Kronos. Why this weak attemp to make it sound like the first authorized war on the alliances at war was not authorized by Kronos?

As MOD of The Family Forces I will address this. The original attacks on "ONE" RLMMO nation were intended as a tech raid albeit perhaps an Ill advised one, so if it were just that, and RLMMOS response were just against "Those" nations, then your point may have had validity. But RLMMO's response to this was to open a "Complete Front" against our Kronos allies, with the sole purpose of bringing a "Nuclear Holocaust" to their doorstep, which was their openly stated intention from the outset. This gos far and beyond any concept of reasonable defense, and was done without any attempt at diplomacy or mediation. Therefore this constitutes an overt act of aggression not in keeping with the original attacks, but is in fact a separate Casus Belli, facilitating our action through Casus Foederis.

In the end the RLMMO's actions were undertaken to "Make A Name" for themselves. Well they shall indeed get themselves a name, and it shall be carved on the tombstones of their nations.

Edited December 5, 2009 by Kewlleo

[Khyber]

As MOD of The Family Forces I will address this. The original attacks on "ONE" RLMMO nation were intended as a tech raid albeit perhaps an Ill advised one, so if it were just that, and RLMMOS response were just against "Those" nations, then your point may have had validity. But RLMMO's response to this was to open a "Complete Front" against our Kronos allies, with the sole purpose of bringing a "Nuclear Holocaust" to their doorstep, which was their openly stated intention from the outset. This gos far and beyond any concept of reasonable defense, and was done without any attempt at diplomacy or mediation. Therefore this constitutes an overt act of aggression not in keeping with the original attacks, but is in fact a separate Casus Belli, facilitating our action through Casus Foederis.

In the end the RLMMO's actions were undertaken to "Make A Name" for themselves. Well they shall indeed get themselves a name, and it shall be carved on the tombstones of their nations.

Once you accept two truths, that a tech raid is a war for tech, and that this war was allowed to take place by the alliance (they didn't boot out the tech raider after all for breaking their rules), it becomes clear that the alliance is responsible for it's members' wars be they tech raids or acts of vengence. Your attempt to down play that the goverment gave permission to their nation to attack another alliance escapes me, for if the reason was lets say vengence and the goverment appoved it, it would easily and without a doubt be seen as a war by the alliance getting attacked. Placeing tech raid doesn't change the fact that it is a war..

They were also the people attacked, you would think that Kronos would seek diplomacy before they allow their members to attack an alliance. You placeing responsibility on RLMMO to start peace talks seems backwards, as they are the ones being attacked, not the ones doing the attacking.

RLMMO did not take such actions to "make a name" for themselves. You know nothing of them, and while I respect bomber, you sir are speaking out of ignorance. RLMMO took such actions because many of their BIOs state this, and their policy switched to this due to the amount of tech raids they suffer for being a 14 man none alligned alliance.

You are aggressively attacking an alliance that decided to defend themselves against a sanctioned war by another alliance. Next time your alliance allows it's members to wage a war for whatever reason accept that the alliance is in effect standing by that war.

Like I told Sonny, I'm fine with standing by your friends, but this "let me play the victim" to sound more holier then thou is a crock, and I expect more from tF.

[ROMMELHSQ]

You leave our ROMMEL alone.

Rommel rmmol rlmmo ramen all the same.

none of these are me

[Jens of the desert]

Have fun guys

[Nemhauser]

Go get 'em, tF.

[Kewlleo]

Once you accept two truths, that a tech raid is a war for tech, and that this war was allowed to take place by the alliance (they didn't boot out the tech raider after all for breaking their rules), it becomes clear that the alliance is responsible for it's members' wars be they tech raids or acts of vengence. Your attempt to down play that the goverment gave permission to their nation to attack another alliance escapes me, for if the reason was lets say vengence and the goverment appoved it, it would easily and without a doubt be seen as a war by the alliance getting attacked. Placeing tech raid doesn't change the fact that it is a war..

They were also the people attacked, you would think that Kronos would seek diplomacy before they allow their members to attack an alliance. You placeing responsibility on RLMMO to start peace talks seems backwards, as they are the ones being attacked, not the ones doing the attacking.

RLMMO did not take such actions to "make a name" for themselves. You know nothing of them, and while I respect bomber, you sir are speaking out of ignorance. RLMMO took such actions because many of their BIOs state this, and their policy switched to this due to the amount of tech raids they suffer for being a 14 man none alligned alliance.

You are aggressively attacking an alliance that decided to defend themselves against a sanctioned war by another alliance. Next time your alliance allows it's members to wage a war for whatever reason accept that the alliance is in effect standing by that war.

Like I told Sonny, I'm fine with standing by your friends, but this "let me play the victim" to sound more holier then thou is a crock, and I expect more from tF.

No the concept of a Tech Raid started as a means to rescue money and tech from highly inactive nations that were going to be deleted anyway, in this it made perfect sense, and as such it was a valid concept. As you said the concept has now become so completely distorted as to act as excuse and validation for basically attacking anyone anywhere so long as you think you can get away with it. So in that I do agree with you.

That being said though speaking as a almost 4 year veteran of this game, as one who has led both large alliances and small, and as one who has either been in or witnessed every major conflict (and most the minor one's) that this game has ever had. It has never in my experience been acceptable practice nor prudent policy, to respond to a conflict thus far limited to one alliance nation, by launching an alliance wide assault (with no time given for diplomacy to work), with the sole intention of launching as many nukes as possible at as many as you can conceivably attack. This is the mentality and action of a nuclear rogue, not of a responsible alliance trying to defend it self. And its intent and considerations far outweigh any event that had transpired before in the conflict in question. Any alliance leader ordering such an attack knows full well he is signing the death warrants of the nations he is leading, because regardless of the events that have transpired, he is forcing the hand of his adversary and its allies to react in kind.

The Family has nothing to gain in this war, no political aims, no economics motives, and certainly no aggressive desire to destroy the RLMMO, aside from the fact that they will not be allowed to perpetuate such atrocities as this on our allies. They made their call, they knew what it would mean, and thats apparently how they wanted it, so that is what they got.

Edited December 5, 2009 by Kewlleo

[nippy]

Well said and highly respectable, Kewlleo, although somehow the word 'rouge' got into your post.

[Trinite]

Therefore this constitutes an overt act of aggression not in keeping with the original attacks, but is in fact a separate Casus Belli, facilitating our action through Casus Foederis.

So going nuclear is a CB? Having a bigger counter blitz than the attacking alliance is a new CB.

This gos far and beyond any concept of reasonable defense, and was done without any attempt at diplomacy or mediation. Therefore this constitutes an overt act of aggression not in keeping with the original attacks, but is in fact a separate Casus Belli, facilitating our action through Casus Foederis.

If any alliance okays an attack against another alliance, that's a war. There is one CB for a every war. The CB for this war was "RLMMO has tech and they are smaller than us. "Their response is not a CB. It may be an over reaction, and you may not like it, but it's not a CB. The B had already started. You can activate your oA if you want to, but don't act like you had to do this. Not only is it factually incorrect, it sets an absolutely terrible precedent that a tech raid is somehow not a war.

As you said the concept has now become so completely distorted as to act as excuse and validation for basically attacking anyone anywhere so long as you think you can get away with it. So in that I do agree with you.

You're only helping to distort it more.

[Kewlleo]

Well said and highly respectable, Kewlleo, although somehow the word 'rouge' got into your post.

What can I say I just love red

So going nuclear is a CB? Having a bigger counter blitz than the attacking alliance is a new CB.

It can be construed as such, and RLMMO did both as soon as they could.

If any alliance okays an attack against another alliance, that's a war. There is one CB for a every war. The CB for this war was "RLMMO has tech and they are smaller than us. "Their response is not a CB. It may be an over reaction, and you may not like it, but it's not a CB. The B had already started. You can activate your oA if you want to, but don't act like you had to do this. Not only is it factually incorrect, it sets an absolutely terrible precedent that a tech raid is somehow not a war.

You're only helping to distort it more.

You use the term CB to loosely here. Not every situation that proceeds from the original event is to be considered part of the original situation, nor can it be.

Thats like saying that if a guys arrested for stealing, and is tried and found guilty before a judge who decides that he should get the electric chair for his theft, because someone happen to steal the judges wallet the night before the sentencing, that the defendant is somehow worthy of the sentence imposed.

That wouldn't even fly if the guy who stole the judges wallet was the guy who was brought before him.

And as far as what "We Had" or "Had Not" to do.

Their is such a thing as "Moral Necessity" to respond to heinous acts committed against those we call friends, and its as equally valid as any practical concerns. Please do not try to distort that.

Edited December 5, 2009 by Kewlleo

[Lennox]

Im pretty sure Kronos can handle their own. I guess bandwagoning is still "in".

[Sardonic]

Good luck finding slots.

[mrSonny]

Im pretty sure Kronos can handle their own. I guess bandwagoning is still "in".

I'm sure they could handle it on their own. Is that the point here buddy? Not at all. The fact that nuke nations where declaring on non-nuke nations is what got us involved. That is not ok in our eyes. And since when did activating an mdoap become bandwaggoning? That's usually saved for odps. But I lold. Actually the fact that you posted here made me lol considering NSO is not involved at all.

Also bandwaggoning is usally the term used when an alliance will get totally smashed within the first round of attacks, usually ending in a gain for the "bandwaggoning" AA. I can assure you now that we are not ahead as of now.

To victory Kronos and The Family!