Mea Culpa

[Keve69]

Good show

[flak attack]

So what you're saying is, it's okay to do bad so long as no one calls you on it, but once someone calls you on it, you have to sit and think about what you've done and try to change your ways? Also, what you seem to be saying is, so long as people hail your poor decisions, so long as they cheer you on in your !@#$%^&ry, that you do not have to contemplate your actions and the harm you may actually be doing?

He gets no benefit of the doubt for his blatantly opportunistic apology.

Or maybe it's that having your head come close to the chopping black makes you go back and think about what you've done. It's easy to think you're in the right when everyone says you are.

[Buds The Man]

So what you're saying is, it's okay to do bad so long as no one calls you on it, but once someone calls you on it, you have to sit and think about what you've done and try to change your ways? Also, what you seem to be saying is, so long as people hail your poor decisions, so long as they cheer you on in your !@#$%^&ry, that you do not have to contemplate your actions and the harm you may actually be doing?

He gets no benefit of the doubt for his blatantly opportunistic apology.

Dude you are one callous som buck.

Londo im not sure whether this is from the heart or simply an attempt at scrambling for some good PR. Im willing to go with the first and hope that you follow through. Good luck to you.

[Qaianna]

So what you're saying is, it's okay to do bad so long as no one calls you on it, but once someone calls you on it, you have to sit and think about what you've done and try to change your ways? Also, what you seem to be saying is, so long as people hail your poor decisions, so long as they cheer you on in your !@#$%^&ry, that you do not have to contemplate your actions and the harm you may actually be doing?

He gets no benefit of the doubt for his blatantly opportunistic apology.

How else does one find out what is wrong, Mr Jones? Humans tend to rely on other humans for feedback on the whole 'right and wrong' thing. History's full of times when one ruler said 'this is what's right', and based things on the feedback he or she received. That's the reason people refer to 'echo chambers' as a bad thing--if you're surrounded by those who keep cheering you, and others who dissent are branded somehow (say, being part of an unfashionable group), then how will one learn?

Also, let's ask you your solution to this dilemma: assume Londo is being honest here. How would YOU suggest he deliver this message?

Oh, and Geoffron X of the New Pacific order has also demonstrated the risk of always decrying apologies. Others may learn that THAT is the proper way of treating those confessing guilt. Nice environment for admitting mistakes, eh?

[neko_antoniou]

I'm going to treat this apology the same way that everything we apologize for is treated. Namely, that you don't mean a word you say, and that it's just a PR stunt.

A PR stunt indeed.

[Earogema]

A PR stunt indeed.

I'm going to treat this apology the same way that everything we apologize for is treated. Namely, that you don't mean a word you say, and that it's just a PR stunt.

Aw, you poor guys ;_;

[scythegfx]

I'll respect this, and I applaud it, but I notice a lack mention for the knights of Ni!

[Iosif]

It's meae culpae, actually, if you're shooting for a plural.

It's meae culpae, actually, if you're shooting for a plural. Although the English saying "mea culpa" is usu. in the singular form.

Ah, my bad, it's been couple of years since I studied Latin so my pronouns have got pretty rusty. And yes, I know it's usually in the singular form but Londo was talking about "mea culpas" in the OP, so yeah.

Also, I guess I should stop derailing this thread at this point ;P

[Poyplemonkeys]

I don't understand the need to present these apologies publicly when you acknowledge that others were addressed privately to be honest. Then again I'm just of the opinion that all apologies should be presented privately as public apologies will always come across as something either forced, insincere or having ulterior motives.

I look forward to seeing actions that speak as loud as your words

[astronaut jones]

How else does one find out what is wrong, Mr Jones? Humans tend to rely on other humans for feedback on the whole 'right and wrong' thing. History's full of times when one ruler said 'this is what's right', and based things on the feedback he or she received. That's the reason people refer to 'echo chambers' as a bad thing--if you're surrounded by those who keep cheering you, and others who dissent are branded somehow (say, being part of an unfashionable group), then how will one learn?

Also, let's ask you your solution to this dilemma: assume Londo is being honest here. How would YOU suggest he deliver this message?

Oh, and Geoffron X of the New Pacific order has also demonstrated the risk of always decrying apologies. Others may learn that THAT is the proper way of treating those confessing guilt. Nice environment for admitting mistakes, eh?

We inherently have a sense of right and wrong. We know what we do, and we know how it affects others, and we do not need feedback from others before we realize that hey, we $%&@ed up. This isn't a mistake on Londo's part, it's not as though he accidentally broke their infrastructure and he's now apologizing for that mistake. He was cold and showed nothing but disdain for anyone who was calling him out on the behaviour of athens during the attacks on the knights of ni, right up until he had no other choice but to do an about face.

If you believe he's sincere, I'm sorry to say, but you've been fooled.

edited for spelling mistake.

Edited November 16, 2009 by astronaut jones

[astronaut jones]

Or maybe it's that having your head come close to the chopping black makes you go back and think about what you've done. It's easy to think you're in the right when everyone says you are.

Again, people have an inherent sense of right and wrong, and you should not need the entire world to stand up and go "the $%&@ you doing?" before realizing that what you've done, what you're doing is causing harm to others.

But yeah, you can give him a pass if you want, you'd be stupid to do so, but go ahead and do it anyway.

[Sir Paul]

It was wrong of me to believe that NPO was guilty of any evil laid at its door simply because it has been guilty of many.

I expect this post to to work, mostly because in his apology he said that the NPO was guilty of many evils. Always a crowd-pleaser.

[Earogema]

I expect this post to to work, mostly because in his apology he said that the NPO was guilty of many evils. Always a crowd-pleaser.

So let me get this straight. In a thread where Londo admits to multiple "evil" actions, and admits he was wrong on a account of one involving the NPO, you're the one trying to drum up sympathy using a sarcastic remark exposing the bias of the community.

Great PR team you've got there.

[NLights]

I honestly think the NPO should disband.

Well, only because I think about 85% of the people on these forums would no longer know what to do with themselves and quit. "You mean I can no longer compare irrelevant things back to the NPO to somehow make what I said right? ?"

At any rate, I missed all this drama so I'm still catching up. So far of what I've read...it was good of you to apologize...I mean it's what the NPO wouldn't have done so you win!

[Sir Paul]

So let me get this straight. In a thread where Londo admits to multiple "evil" actions, and admits he was wrong on a account of one involving the NPO, you're the one trying to drum up sympathy using a sarcastic remark exposing the bias of the community.

Great PR team you've got there.

Actually, Londo admitted to "bad" actions and "mistakes." not "evil." That quality is reserved for Pacificans (and rightly so). I just find it interesting that Londo decides to say, esentially, "I'm sorry, you're so evil sometimes I jump the gun." As for sympathy, I've no use for it at the moment.

At any rate, I missed all this drama so I'm still catching up. So far of what I've read...it was good of you to apologize...I mean it's what the NPO wouldn't have done so you win!

That's right. Moo never said this:

...we do wish to state that this decree was a mistake and it was wrong. We realize that nations probably rerolled because of this, and we apologize to them and to GATO in general for this action.

[Draztikus]

Extreme classiness itt

"Sorry I attacked you guys without any reason at all, it was wrong of me, I'm really really sorry, I'm being all humble and !@#$, did I say I was sorry already? Oh reps, what reps? Lalalala I am forgiven."

Is that what Valhallans call class? Wait, no need to answer.

[NLights]

Actually, Londo admitted to "bad" actions and "mistakes." not "evil." That quality is reserved for Pacificans (and rightly so). I just find it interesting that Londo decides to say, esentially, "I'm sorry, you're so evil sometimes I jump the gun." As for sympathy, I've no use for it at the moment.

That's right. Moo never said this:

I was being sarcastic Mr Paul, guess I need to work on that

[Shurukian]

I think these apologies will be well accepted after there is a period of time to see that lessons have actually been learned. It is easy to say that you're sorry, but it's another to mean it. And when you mean it, your actions do change.

So in about a month, I'll know if this was genuine or not. But I know better than to believe that everyone can change on the drop of a pin after months of repetition.

Nevertheless, thank you.

[Hoping]

Can't say I didn't see this whole thing coming. Londo has never been that strong in reality, only in perception. Will it actually end today? Very doubtful. It didn't end a year ago.

[Buds The Man]

"Sorry I attacked you guys without any reason at all, it was wrong of me, I'm really really sorry, I'm being all humble and !@#$, did I say I was sorry already? Oh reps, what reps? Lalalala I am forgiven."

Is that what Valhallans call class? Wait, no need to answer.

Classy as always. Perhaps she wants to give some one the benifit of the doubt and is a good enough person to do so. Maybe she would like to believe that this episode was an eye opener for him to realize that perhaps recent victories and achievements had gone to his head. Sometimes when you get to the head of the class you forget your struggles to get there and abuse your new found power. Im pretty sure the Cyberverse has seen this before. While im sure were all skeptical a bit, some of us choose to give people the oppurtunity to back their words before we slam them. It is classy IMO to realize your wrongs and apologize for those mistakes. I do remember a time when NpO was not so popular and they have turned it around perhaps Londo and Athens can do the same.

***damn you Draz now you made me go and defend Londo and Athens you suck **

Edited November 16, 2009 by Buds The Man

[Lord Strider]

The only thing this tells me is that you are not fit to lead an alliance. Admitting a mistake is one thing, Saying your sorry is something you save for your wife and kids. Grow a backbone and stand up for your choices in life.

[astronaut jones]

Classy as always. Perhaps she wants to give some one the benifit of the doubt and is a good enough person to do so. Maybe she would like to believe that this episode was an eye opener for him to realize that perhaps recent victories and achievements had gone to his head. Sometimes when you get to the head of the class you forget your struggles to get there and abuse your new found power. Im pretty sure the Cyberverse has seen this before. While im sure were all skeptical a bit, some of us choose to give people the oppurtunity to back their words before we slam them. It is classy IMO to realize your wrongs and apologize for those mistakes. I do remember a time when NpO was not so popular and they have turned it around perhaps Londo and Athens can do the same.

***damn you Draz now you made me go and defend Londo and Athens you suck **

People forget that NpO was in a war and was pretty soundly defeated before people would even give them the benefit of the doubt that they would change. It took MONTHS for NpO to re-work their reputation and regain the trust that they had long since lost based upon the actions of one person.

What many people are doing, or are expecting people to do, is to forgive Londo for all that he has done wrong, simply because he has said he was sorry. How about we wait until he's shown that he has changed, and that athens has changed before we so blindly willing to accept his opportunistic apology? If you're going to bring up the NpO, then atleast hold Londo and Athens to the same standards that you and your alliance did back then.

edited for spelling.

Edited November 16, 2009 by astronaut jones

[Gotterdanaa]

Is this part of the 12 step program for rash Alliance leaders?

[Lenny N Karl]

Good job Londo.

It is a reasonable thing to readdress your views and situation. It is a shame that all cannot do this. Like TBB said, your future actions will determine your commitment to this Mea Culpa. I have only recently met with you, but I think you are showing a willingness to take responsibility for yours and your alliance's actions. I only wish that FoB would step up like you have.

As for all the various jabs and pokes shot at alliances from the wars of the past that get mixed into every thread that is posted for months now.(Karma, WoTC, GWIII, II , I, etc etc etc) Perma-grudges are foolish, embarrassing, and not a healthy thing for anyone folks. If there is a fresh new reason to draw lines so be it. But the saddle your riding is 6 feet under.

There is a reason that there are 5K less nations over the last 6 months and it isn't all about who was right or wrong in your mind.

move on, the opportunity to take things in a new direction globally is slipping away.

[Bjornoya]

Very well. I hope in time we can all forgive and forget.