Locke Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 the damage has been done. i don't feel comfortable or welcome in #invicta. you will be receiving a bill from my secretary of internal mental health. My apologies then, I'm sorry we couldn't work out the issue earlier. because the pervading attitude from most of purple was "we don't want you here, you dont know anything about us, but if you're coming you guys better do all the work on getting to know us cuz we sure as heck arent going to make any sort of effort seeing as how, you know, we dont want you on purple. but in public sure we'll "welcome" you but you're not really welcome lol" Well, speaking for myself at least, I was fine with it. The dumped screens of the iFOK forums weren't flattering, but I took your word when you said they were merely cherry-picked and designed to cast Stickmen's intention in a bad light. I was happy to let you in with no pre-conconcieved notions or grudges, and really hardly knew any of you. It is the actions and conduct of the Stickmen since coming onto the sphere that have been offputting to me. If you are content in your corner of purple, away from PEACE and the like, that's fine by me; can't force anyone to play with us. Want to run a senator? Go ahead. In fact, message whoever you want, but with a few rules. The NSO recruitment incident comes to mind. They sent unsolicited spam to a few neutral alliances. The neutral alliances complained. NSO relented, apologized, and ceased messaging those who asked not to be messaged. If an alliance like, say, Avalon, humbly requests that you stop messaging, then you should. If an alliance does not request as such, then go right ahead and message. I, personally, don't mind spam in the least sent to my nation, though I would not wish the same on my entire alliance. But heck, send me whatever you got, I don't care. In any event, I'm still perfectly willing and open to working with the Stickmen, always have been and always will be. You'll just have to pardon me if I don't always approve of the conduct of some under your banner. I suppose it goes both ways though, so I do try not to make an issue of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chasmic Descent Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 All I see is people trying to reason with trolls. Oh the foolishness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreddieMercury Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 Heh, we were very cordial in the first meeting with purple, actually. They simply tried to hint at what would happen to us if we didn't simply fall in line with them and subsequently did nothing to communicate with us. Eh, two stories to it I suppose. From what I'm hearing from purple they say they've been nice to you; and from you guys it's not so nice. Whatever the cause (Misinterpreted words or whatever), the path you guys are on are one of conflict. It's not a conflict one I want to see since I'm indirectly tied to you guys via Vanguard and I got other friends on purple. There's still time to revert the course, but this provoking thing has to end. Before the move they were very clear about not wanting anything to do with the rest of Purple. Unless they said it on the OWF or IRC (in which case I missed); what you just said comes from the screen shot dumps of private conversations, which does not neccessarily represent their official policies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorost Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 the Invicta senator is a mindless drone that does your bidding I WISH! I keep telling Haf that's how it SHOULD be, but he never listens! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingoist Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 Want to know something kinda funny?The BTA had to do this thing called work when moving to Purple. Instead of causing drama all the time we did this thing called diplomacy. You know…..that thing where you talk to the people on the sphere you are moving to, get to know them a little bit, make sure its not some move for power or anything. Yea that thing! Last I checked when an alliance wants to move into a bloc or a sphere its their job to make sure people know about it and do some work to get friendly with people, not the people already there. If we could do it with 12 people in our alliance I’m sure that you guys could have considering your size compared to ours. The really amazing thing is that Purple Unity was more than willing to talk with us about it and helped us a bit in the transition oncewe told them. The BTA knew just about nothing when we started talking to Purple alliances about moving to the sphere. A little bit of reading and some diplomacy changed that. Funny how a little bit of diplomacy can go a long way isn’t it? Though I’m sure that what you are doing will work just as well as some simple diplomacy will. i got 3 sentences in and realized you're being a patronizing jerk and decided to not read the rest. that's what happens when you act like a patronizing jerk. trust me, i know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 Heh, we were very cordial in the first meeting with purple, actually. They simply tried to hint at what would happen to us if we didn't simply fall in line with them and subsequently did nothing to communicate with us. How strange! We've had some quite good meetings with purple alliances. I for one, am looking forward to our future interactions with the purple alliances. o/ Purple o/ Stickmen o/ Roeland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stetson76 Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 (edited) Suffice to say that Purple's leadership were somewhere between suspicious and agressive during the series of meetings that we held, and when we mentioned the senate, and the possibility of us joining PEACE, they quite cleverly changed the text of their senate treaty to ensure that Stickmen could never get any representation under their system. First a little clarification...between suspicious and agressive means they weren't agressive...thought I'd point that out. Also, on the facts front, you claim that the PEACE treaty was changed to cut you out of never being able to run a senator if you'd joined? Previous version of PEACE treaty as it regards to senators: Article II: SenatorsMember alliances agree to support Poseidon member alliances' Purple Senate candidates, to refrain from putting forth their own candidates, and to take all steps necessary to this end. Current version of the PEACE treaty as it regards to senators: Article II: SenatorsMember alliances recognize the need to work cooperatively in matters regarding the Purple Senate to ensure the interests of all signatories and Pegasus members. As such, any member alliance with fifty (50) purple members, or more, is eligible for Purple Senate seat rotation. Also PEACE only signatories shall be given a spot in the senate rotation upon request on the Purple Unity forums. Provided that they have spent 6 months in PEACE, have a minimum of 50 purple nations, 60% of their alliance on purple and are not vetoed by a majority of Poseidon in doing so. As this change clearly indicates, we were doing our best to keep you out. But you knew that because you've been so engaged with the rest of purple. For those not interested in reading the text of the quotes, when we signed PEACE only Poseidon was able to run senators, we've since opened that up to all PEACE members provided they meet some color specific criteria. Edited October 23, 2009 by Stetson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorost Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 I was just looking at the Purple senate results, and between Purple Unity and Stickmen our four candidates have 1,771 votes. Rivalry aside, that's got to be some kind of record. So if nothing else, we're stirring up interest. OK, back to bickering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shovel Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 (edited) First a little clarification...between suspicious and agressive means they weren't agressive...thought I'd point that out.Also, on the facts front, you claim that the PEACE treaty was changed to cut you out of never being able to run a senator if you'd joined? Previous version of PEACE treaty as it regards to senators: Current version of the PEACE treaty as it regards to senators: As this change clearly indicates, we were doing our best to keep you out. But you knew that because you've been so engaged with the rest of purple. For those not interested in reading the text of the quotes, when we signed PEACE only Poseidon was able to run senators, we've since opened that up to all PEACE members provided they meet some color specific criteria. lol, when you changed that iFOK and SLCB were both below 50 members, that would have been quite difficult for us to then have 50 purple members and FCO weren't that much above 50 either. And Alterego, Mark is too diplomatic, he would never have ousted purple in public. I was just looking at the Purple senate results, and between Purple Unity and Stickmen our four candidates have 1,771 votes. Rivalry aside, that's got to be some kind of record. So if nothing else, we're stirring up interest. Yeah, something like 55-60% of purple voted in the first 15 days, that is pretty decent. Edited October 23, 2009 by Shovel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stetson76 Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 lol, when you changed that iFOK and SLCB were both below 50 members, that would have been quite difficult for us to then have 50 purple members and FCO weren't that much above 50 either.And Alterego, Mark is too diplomatic, he would never have ousted purple in public. You clearly miss the point. Prior to that, PEACE alliances were obligated to vote for Poseidon senators. There would have be NO chance, not just difficult, for you or any of us to honor the treaty and still get a senate seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shovel Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 You clearly miss the point. Prior to that, PEACE alliances were obligated to vote for Poseidon senators. There would have be NO chance, not just difficult, for you or any of us to honor the treaty and still get a senate seat. "Lets make it look like we're all for equality but lets add a bunch of clauses to make sure who we want to have a seat get a seat" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 And Alterego, Mark is too diplomatic, he would never have ousted purple in public. I understand, when the occasion calls for it your government have no qualms about lying to the world. Not on this occasion of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shovel Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 I understand, when the occasion calls for it your government have no qualms about lying to the world. Not on this occasion of course Or he was just polite and optimistic. Which ever floats your box I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assarax Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 (edited) The Stickmen are so cute, they try so hard. To be completely honest, this thread is a joke. For one, if Mikey over there is the best candidate for a purple team senate spot, why is it that I have yet to see him post here? Perhaps he can shed some insight into why the rest of purple should abandon their own senate candidates for him. I highly doubt that the change in the PEACE senate clause was made to simply cut you out of the loop. It is there because, really, what alliance under 50 members needs a senator? There's no point. Also EXCUSE me for asking new purple members to get to know us if they plan to move to the sphere. If you really wanted pleasant relationships with us, you would have put in the effort. Keep in mind that you are moving to a sphere with an established system, you have to bend a little bit to be accepted. But it seems that you don't care about being accepted, only about being a thorn in the sides of many of the PEACE signatories. On the subject of spamming PEACE nations with "Vote for Michael" messages, this really only looks like an attempt to annoy the rest of us. If you wish to campaign for your candidate, fine. There is no law on purple that says alliances not affiliated with PEACE cannot run a candidate. We highly encourage that all purple alliances join us to better unify purple, but we do not force them in any way shape or form. However, messaging affiliated nations is irritating, and it is no wonder that you have been kept at arms length, as this does not show a willingness to cooperate with the rest of the sphere. Oh, and calling us Purplol does not help your chances in the slightest either. Have a nice day Edited October 23, 2009 by assarax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingoist Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 "Lets make it look like we're all for equality but lets add a bunch of clauses to make sure who we want to have a seat get a seat" its the same thing as having a literacy test given to prospective voters and then claiming that it's a real democracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locke Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 lol, when you changed that iFOK and SLCB were both below 50 members, that would have been quite difficult for us to then have 50 purple members and FCO weren't that much above 50 either.And Alterego, Mark is too diplomatic, he would never have ousted purple in public. Well, the change was proposed June 11th (the final wording was agreed upon between July 21st through 30th, and then voted upon), you officially announced your intentions on July 23rd. It's not as if we had you specifically in mind when drafting these changes, but had you joined PEACE we certainly could have worked out any senate sharing issues you might have had. It's how we got that ammendment in the first place, after all. We're not all evil people just trying to block the underdog from having their say. We have institutions already in place for airing of grievances, but you seem to have shown little interest in doing so. I believe your members on PUB are still masked as PEACE applicants, and could, if they so wished, start up a Q&A this very moment if they wanted to be included into PEACE. Now, you'd be significantly less likely to be accepted after what's happened since the move, but we've never shut the door to you and you still have a say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 Or he was just polite and optimistic. Which ever floats your box I guess. Perhaps he was being honest. It was a very precise comment about good meetings and not just a hail us or whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingoist Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 We highly encourage that all purple alliances join us to better unify purple, but we do not force them in any way shape or form but you damn sure wish you could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amonra Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 (edited) "Lets make it look like we're all for equality but lets add a bunch of clauses to make sure who we want to have a seat get a seat" I am sorry, its not like we worked 2 years to make peace in Purple and work out something was fair for everyone involved. Sure you guys deserve a Senate seat after being in Purple few a few months, I mean if I swithced to Orange tomorrow I am sure they would give me a Senate spot right away right? Edited October 23, 2009 by Amonra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 (edited) Or he was just polite and optimistic. Which ever floats your box I guess. Shush you, no reason for logic involving diplomacy. I am sorry, its not like we worked 2 years to make peacre in Purple and work out something was fair for everyone involved. Sure you guys deserve a Senate seat after being in Purple few a few months, I mean if I swithced to Orange tomorrow I am sure they would give me a Senate spot right away right? I was like, um. No, really, we've been here working long enough to get our own senate seat. We don't need PEACE's endorsement, which the article prevented anyway. Edited October 23, 2009 by Unavailable Contact Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingoist Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 We're not all evil people just trying to block the underdog from having their say just the vast majority of you, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locke Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 The Stickmen are so cute, they try so hard. To be completely honest, this thread is a joke. For one, if Mikey over there is the best candidate for a purple team senate spot, why is it that I have yet to see him post here? Perhaps he can shed some insight into why the rest of purple should abandon their own senate candidates for him. Just to clarify on this matter before someone else inevitably does, he has; he's arexes, forum name kriekfreak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 (edited) Shush you, no reason for logic involving diplomacy. Lies according to your comrade. Your idea of diplomacy is to lie, apparently. Edited October 23, 2009 by Alterego Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shovel Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 I am sorry, its not like we worked 2 years to make peacre in Purple and work out something was fair for everyone involved. Sure you guys deserve a Senate seat after being in Purple few a few months, I mean if I swithced to Orange tomorrow I am sure they would give me a Senate spot right away right? The person that deserves a senate seat is he who has the most votes. That's why there is the whole voting system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingoist Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 if I swithced to Orange tomorrow I am sure they would give me a Senate spot right away right? you should try it and see!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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