To whom it may concern.

[Ivan Moldavi]

I expect you'll be delivering the orders to your members that it is not to appropriate in any non-NSO related topic ASAP too then, right?

Actually, no, but if the members of my government were doing so then I might have a word with them. Perhaps you could point out places where this has occurred so that I can review it?

I don't believe what you are describing actually happens to any great extent, which is one of the things I find most humorous about comments like yours and others. The NSO, or a member who doesn't represent the alliance officially, doesn't matter really, starts a thread and several uninvolved parties decide to comment on it and before the thread is over the NSO is being called "attention whores". I find that odd. It seems to me, logically, that those that are piping in and spouting on issues that do not involve them are the whores, attention or otherwise, and claiming that the party that actually started the discussion is such is just ignorant.

When RIA or IAA posts a thread do members of the NSO continually post in those discussions calling you whores? Just curious. If so then you will have my apologies for not addressing this issue sooner. If not, you are just a hypocrite. Which is it?

[Krunk the Great]

Hmmm...so what I got out of this thread was: absolutely nothing, spare the fact that Krunk is immature and thinks sarcasm can fix every situation.

You underestimate me good sir.

[James Wilson]

You underestimate me good sir.

No, I think I got you nailed down pretty tight now.

[Krunk the Great]

No, I think I got you nailed down pretty tight now.

Really now?

Its all about having fun, my good man, all about the fun.

Do I care what people who I will never meet in my life think of me? Probably not.

Will I get them to underestimate me? I already have.

[Dochartaigh]

Actually, no, but if the members of my government were doing so then I might have a word with them. Perhaps you could point out places where this has occurred so that I can review it?

I don't believe what you are describing actually happens to any great extent, which is one of the things I find most humorous about comments like yours and others. The NSO, or a member who doesn't represent the alliance officially, doesn't matter really, starts a thread and several uninvolved parties decide to comment on it and before the thread is over the NSO is being called "attention whores". I find that odd. It seems to me, logically, that those that are piping in and spouting on issues that do not involve them are the whores, attention or otherwise, and claiming that the party that actually started the discussion is such is just ignorant.

When RIA or IAA posts a thread do members of the NSO continually post in those discussions calling you whores? Just curious. If so then you will have my apologies for not addressing this issue sooner. If not, you are just a hypocrite. Which is it?

honestly, you can call me whatever you want. i truly do not care. this issue involves IAA since it involves our allies so to state that i am somehow ignorant and this issue does not affect me is quite possibly the funniest statement in this entire thread including the OP.

as for NSO and this thread, from what i have gathered from this thread and has yet to be disputed by NSO is that Krunk is NSO gov. since it is a rather significant precedent that gov in an alliance speaks for that alliance in some official capacity, Krunk as gov speaks for NSO with this thread is some official capacity.

so you should look to your own faults and issues within NSO before you start spouting off at the mouth about how others are not relevant and are ignorant since it was an NSO member who brought this issue to the public. not a LoSS member, not an IAA member, and not an RIA member but an NSO member and a gov person as well.

so yes, you wish to continue to make NSO look better in this thread that started off making NSO look like they fall more in step with LUE, RAD, \m/, /b/, IS, Bel Air or the other alliances that did joke threads similar in style to the one in the OP.

since i doubt this is what you envisioned NSO being regarded as, i would suggest you actually do talk to your membership in regards to what they post especially when it comes to posting a thread.

[Dochartaigh]

Really now?

Its all about having fun, my good man, all about the fun.

Do I care what people who I will never meet in my life think of me? Probably not.

Will I get them to underestimate me? I already have.

Underestimate you? probably not actually. Thank you are a joke, most likely. if you think being regarded as a joke is being underestimated, then your logic is infallible. but either way, you are still a joke and not a particularly good one at that.

[King MyLife]

Dude i thought #4 was AWESOME...Great read and well said....

o/ Krunk The Great...

[Krunk the Great]

Underestimate you? probably not actually. Thank you are a joke, most likely. if you think being regarded as a joke is being underestimated, then your logic is infallible. but either way, you are still a joke and not a particularly good one at that.

It allows more squeeze room for being serious, as no one will pay attention to me. If I paint myself as incapable of being able to do certain things, then I can do those things with greater ease and less scrutiny.

I've never had a good name on these forums and I probably never will outside of NSO.

I thought we were all going to go HOME and drink HOT CHOCOLATE instead of argue and debate over something neither side will stop fighting over? Seriously, lets let it die and bring it up another time.

[James Wilson]

Really now?

Its all about having fun, my good man, all about the fun.

Do I care what people who I will never meet in my life think of me? Probably not.

Will I get them to underestimate me? I already have.

Yea...I don't see anything funny in here and I have a pretty good sense of humor.

[Ivan Moldavi]

honestly, you can call me whatever you want. i truly do not care. this issue involves IAA since it involves our allies so to state that i am somehow ignorant and this issue does not affect me is quite possibly the funniest statement in this entire thread including the OP.

as for NSO and this thread, from what i have gathered from this thread and has yet to be disputed by NSO is that Krunk is NSO gov. since it is a rather significant precedent that gov in an alliance speaks for that alliance in some official capacity, Krunk as gov speaks for NSO with this thread is some official capacity.

so you should look to your own faults and issues within NSO before you start spouting off at the mouth about how others are not relevant and are ignorant since it was an NSO member who brought this issue to the public. not a LoSS member, not an IAA member, and not an RIA member but an NSO member and a gov person as well.

so yes, you wish to continue to make NSO look better in this thread that started off making NSO look like they fall more in step with LUE, RAD, \m/, /b/, IS, Bel Air or the other alliances that did joke threads similar in style to the one in the OP.

since i doubt this is what you envisioned NSO being regarded as, i would suggest you actually do talk to your membership in regards to what they post especially when it comes to posting a thread.

First, you have no knowledge of how my government is structured.

Second, for you to claim that any topic started by a member of my alliance that may or may not have position is automatically an official NSO announcement shows a real lack of insight into the realities of most alliance to alliance documentation and communication. There are upwards of one hundred discussions started daily and especially those marked solely as World Affairs are not typically considered "official" communiques.

Third, I didn't say you aren't involved, I stated that your repeated assumption and assertion that the NSO is somehow a "lesser" alliance or just attention seeking whores is ignorant given that you are the one posting here trying to make more of this issue than actually exists. You sir, are the whore.

[Chimaera]

I'm sorry, but I've only seen one post by an IAAer in this thread claiming that NSO are attention whores, and that seems like a rather tenuous comment to extrapolate that all of IAA follows NSO around in her threads throwing insults at you. In fact, I wasn't even aware that this banter was even going on until just now - I had previously been under the impression that IAA-NSO relations were vastly improved.

The issue here is Krunk's alleged actions (which, for the record, I believe the evidence compiled against him proves him guilty of), NSO's reaction to it, and my members rushing to the defense of our allies in LoSS, who have apparently been lambasted for their pursuit of truth. I'd like to ask Imperials to stay respectful and courteous in this thread and conduct yourselves in a manner that is appropriate to the highest standards of Imperial conduct.

[Dochartaigh]

First, you have no knowledge of how my government is structured.

Second, for you to claim that any topic started by a member of my alliance that may or may not have position is automatically an official NSO announcement shows a real lack of insight into the realities of most alliance to alliance documentation and communication. There are upwards of one hundred discussions started daily and especially those marked solely as World Affairs are not typically considered "official" communiques.

Third, I didn't say you aren't involved, I stated that your repeated assumption and assertion that the NSO is somehow a "lesser" alliance or just attention seeking whores is ignorant given that you are the one posting here trying to make more of this issue than actually exists. You sir, are the whore.

gov is gov and this ain't the first time Krunk has attempted this joke. also, Chron did you no favor by repeatedly stating LoSS stated that Krunk was spying but never providing proof, all the while either himself or others, like Heft, stated that LoSS never went to NSO gov and only talked to Krunk. thus, all he had was conjecture and not fact, something which was proved simply when he failed to provide evidence to back up his accusations against LoSS.

so, yes, by the many posts in this thread by your gov members, i can conclude that your alliance is full of attention whores.

frankly, i am and am not an attention whore. yes i like the attention but as many can note, i can go days, weeks, or months without posting on these forums and not care one bit. i like to debate and argue as well. that provides me as much amusement as being an attention whore.

also, one last point you seem to fail to recognize or pay attention too. it was Krunk, who is an NSO member, who made this issue public. thus, he made so much more of it than any of the "peanut gallery" or whores like myself ever could. so again, you should really be looking at your own as being responsible for this mess and not at people such as myself, Penkala, or Bob Janova who do not contend that this op was anything but attention whoring at its highest and finest. the fact that other members of your gov joined in to bash LoSS in a very public manner is just an added bonus.

[TehChron]

and also, based on the above, do not attempt to speak of logic as it is very clear you have little knowledge of what logic actually is as what i have requested is quite clear and comprehensible. the fact that you attempt to make it into this confusing illogical mess instead of simply stating from that beginning that you knew nothing of this situation and thus should not speak on it shows that you are quite ignorant of logical matters.

Your thought process needs a guidebook for the uninitiated, as I'm not understanding how you can call your train of thought "logical", or even "coherent" at this point.

[Dochartaigh]

Your thought process needs a guidebook for the uninitiated, as I'm not understanding how you can call your train of thought "logical", or even "coherent" at this point.

step 1) Krunk posts this thread, making what was previously a private issue public

step 2) you come in here claiming LoSS said Krunk spied but never gave evidence

step 3) i come in here and tell you to back up your accusations against LoSS with proof (i.e. evidence)

step 4) you state my request is stupid (comment to Blacky who explained it to you)

step 5) you continue to state that i am somehow illogical and incoherent

is that simple enough for you?

[Ivan Moldavi]

step 1) Krunk posts this thread, making what was previously a private issue public

step 2) you come in here claiming LoSS said Krunk spied but never gave evidence

step 3) i come in here and tell you to back up your accusations against LoSS with proof (i.e. evidence)

step 4) you state my request is stupid (comment to Blacky who explained it to you)

step 5) you continue to state that i am somehow illogical and incoherent

is that simple enough for you?

Wait, you are actually clarifying that you came here to ask the NSO to prove that LoSS didn't provide us with evidence? Really? Wow.

Anyway, I am talking about this with others who actually know what is going on. From my point of view what happened was:

1. Krunk was being harassed on IRC.

2. He made this thread.

3. NSO is confused officially because we have not heard from LoSS about this directly at all.

4. We ask LoSS for evidence.

5. We are still waiting on it.

6. Heft speaks with someone in LoSS and they decide that Krunk and LoSS do not get along and they will not talk anymore.

7. You decide to insult my alliance.

Any steps I missed there?

[Dochartaigh]

Wait, you are actually clarifying that you came here to ask the NSO to prove that LoSS didn't provide us with evidence? Really? Wow.

Anyway, I am talking about this with others who actually know what is going on. From my point of view what happened was:

1. Krunk was being harassed on IRC.

2. He made this thread.

3. NSO is confused officially because we have not heard from LoSS about this directly at all.

4. We ask LoSS for evidence.

5. We are still waiting on it.

6. Heft speaks with someone in LoSS and they decide that Krunk and LoSS do not get along and they will not talk anymore.

7. You decide to insult my alliance.

Any steps I missed there?

i did not clarify anything of that sort and if that is what you got from what i posted, then please reread it and other posts i have made. i knew that Chron had no such evidence to support his accusations against LoSS and thus, there would never have been a point that Chron could have provided such evidence. In fact, reread some of Chron's later posts and you will see he even stated he knew nothing of this matter thus proving me right that he was making baseless accusations against LoSS since he had no firsthand knowledge of what was going on.

since no other member of NSO ever posted any evidence that LoSS never provided evidence and even now you continue to state that LoSS has yet to provide evidence for their accusation and thus you guys state it is baseless. yet all the while, neither you nor anyone else in NSO has yet to provide evidence to back up your statements but continue to make what amounts to baseless accusations. the difference between LoSS and NSO, is NSO is doing it in public whereas even by what you state, Ivan, LoSS did this all in private.

to be honest, i never cared that much what happened. i defended my allies against verbal assaults made by NSO members in a public setting. i never once stated i cared what the root cause was. it is quite obvious that Krunk and LoSS do not get along, also if you wish to actually make a step by step guide, i started insulting your alliance between steps 3/4 or possibly just after 4 but most definitely not the last step.

and with this, i bid this thread ado. shakespeare had it right folks.

Edited October 17, 2009 by Dochartaigh

[TehChron]

i did not clarify anything of that sort and if that is what you got from what i posted, then please reread it and other posts i have made. i knew that Chron had no such evidence to support his accusations against LoSS and thus, there would never have been a point that Chron could have provided such evidence. In fact, reread some of Chron's later posts and you will see he even stated he knew nothing of this matter thus proving me right that he was making baseless accusations against LoSS since he had no firsthand knowledge of what was going on.

Of course not. My point was that LoSS never took it to us.

This entire time, that's all I said did not happen. Hence my questioning of your reading comprehension...Why do I need evidence to prove something did not happen? Please, explain this, I wait with bated breath the blessing of your unprecedented genius in debate. Put simply, if you're going to straw man anyone, you're picking the wrong target going after me.

[Ivan Moldavi]

i did not clarify anything of that sort and if that is what you got from what i posted, then please reread it and other posts i have made. i knew that Chron had no such evidence to support his accusations against LoSS and thus, there would never have been a point that Chron could have provided such evidence. In fact, reread some of Chron's later posts and you will see he even stated he knew nothing of this matter thus proving me right that he was making baseless accusations against LoSS since he had no firsthand knowledge of what was going on.

since no other member of NSO ever posted any evidence that LoSS never provided evidence and even now you continue to state that LoSS has yet to provide evidence for their accusation and thus you guys state it is baseless. yet all the while, neither you nor anyone else in NSO has yet to provide evidence to back up your statements but continue to make what amounts to baseless accusations. the difference between LoSS and NSO, is NSO is doing it in public whereas even by what you state, Ivan, LoSS did this all in private.

to be honest, i never cared that much what happened. i defended my allies against verbal assaults made by NSO members in a public setting. i never once stated i cared what the root cause was. it is quite obvious that Krunk and LoSS do not get along, also if you wish to actually make a step by step guide, i started insulting your alliance between steps 3/4 or possibly just after 4 but most definitely not the last step.

and with this, i bid this thread ado. shakespeare had it right folks.

You knew that Chron had no evidence that supported his opinion that no evidence had been presented? I am just not following you here. Maybe I'm stupid, but I don't think so. You can't prove a negative.

You are continuing to claim that NSO must prove that LoSS didn't provide us with evidence. That doesn't follow any convention or even sense that I have ever heard of. LoSS has admitted that they didn't come to NSO directly. Until tonight, when your alliance leader provided me with some screenshots, I had not seen anything. And I still haven't heard a word from LoSS outside of the discussion held with Heft last night, which was much later than the start of this thread.

So what do you keep talking about?

[dwthegreat]

Since when don't I get invited to the let's trash LoSS party?

o/ Krunk

[deth2munkies]

See, now I'm pissed. Where was this "harassment" when I left LoSS? It's like 2 days afterwards they started phoning it in with the occasional "traitor" and "!@#$%^&" being tossed around, but nothing like this.

I feel left out

[TehChron]

You knew that Chron had no evidence that supported his opinion that no evidence had been presented? I am just not following you here. Maybe I'm stupid, but I don't think so. You can't prove a negative.

Side note: How do you prove a negative?

Thanks for answering my question, Ivan.

[Dochartaigh]

You knew that Chron had no evidence that supported his opinion that no evidence had been presented? I am just not following you here. Maybe I'm stupid, but I don't think so. You can't prove a negative.

You are continuing to claim that NSO must prove that LoSS didn't provide us with evidence. That doesn't follow any convention or even sense that I have ever heard of. LoSS has admitted that they didn't come to NSO directly. Until tonight, when your alliance leader provided me with some screenshots, I had not seen anything. And I still haven't heard a word from LoSS outside of the discussion held with Heft last night, which was much later than the start of this thread.

So what do you keep talking about?

In response to nonsensical, unproven, likely unfounded accusations of him spying, why wouldn't ridicule be appropriate?

that is the first one. most of the others simply state that LoSS never provided evidence or never went to NSO gov. honestly, it does not matter. fact is, what was a private issue was made public by Krunk, where NSO started bashing LoSS. thus, since NSO's favorite saying was "LoSS never provided evidence", i used it against them. since not providing evidence and not talking to gov are two distinct things. since not providing evidence implies that talks actually happened where LoSS simply stated Krunk spied and left it at that. not talking to gov is pretty straight forward.

so while LoSS may never have went to you, Chron has nothing stating otherwise except conjecture that Krunk did not spy. to my knowledge there is proof that he in fact did and that with this thread Krunk made NSO look quite foolish since it seems he played all of you for fools to defend him.

this is why i stated that maybe you should actually attempt to cease your members from going public before you actually know everything that is involved with an issue, especially if you have yet to talk with the other alliance involved.

[Duncan King]

Now this is an NSO thread I can actually appreciate. Very funny, Krunk.

Probably not the best diplomatic tactic, but amusing nonetheless.

Edited October 17, 2009 by Duncan King

[TehChron]

that is the first one. most of the others simply state that LoSS never provided evidence or never went to NSO gov.

Until very recently, LoSS did not provide evidence. Thank you for admitting I was right

honestly, it does not matter. fact is, what was a private issue was made public by Krunk, where NSO started bashing LoSS. thus, since NSO's favorite saying was "LoSS never provided evidence", i used it against them. since not providing evidence and not talking to gov are two distinct things. since not providing evidence implies that talks actually happened where LoSS simply stated Krunk spied and left it at that.

I don't know what planet you're from, but on Bob we tend to think that allegations of spying by any member of any alliance constitutes significantly more than "a private matter", in fact, you could even say it's even more our business than it is IAA's.

not talking to gov is pretty straight forward.

It is straightforward. It's blatantly deceitful, and LoSS only brought their case to our attention, a directly relevant party, after sharing it with you lot, a tangentially involved party. That is not straight forward, it's being a dick, and flies in the face of long-standing political conventions.

so while LoSS may never have went to you, Chron has nothing stating otherwise except conjecture that Krunk did not spy. to my knowledge there is proof that he in fact did and that with this thread Krunk made NSO look quite foolish since it seems he played all of you for fools to defend him.

No, the conjecture is that he had spied. That there was no evidence provided (at the time) only bolsters my position (at the time) in saying as much. That you don't think so is rather irrelevant in the face of common sense and actual logic.

this is why i stated that maybe you should actually attempt to cease your members from going public before you actually know everything that is involved with an issue, especially if you have yet to talk with the other alliance involved.

Yeah, I mean, we totally knew about this beforehand.

[/golfclap]

[Bob]

I don't know what planet you're from, but on Bob we tend to think that allegations of spying by any member of any alliance constitutes significantly more than "a private matter", in fact, you could even say it's even more our business than it is IAA's. It is straightforward. It's blatantly deceitful, and LoSS only brought their case to our attention, a directly relevant party, after sharing it with you lot, a tangentially involved party. That is not straight forward, it's being a dick, and flies in the face of long-standing political conventions.

Uhhhhhhh what?

They shouldn't have told their allies that they think they might have people spying on them and tried to work it out?

That would seem like a good idea to me, personally. If IAA was a random alliance and LoSS brought it to them, you would be correct of course. However, discussing a situation with your ally is not being a dick in any way, shape, or form.