agafaba Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 From what I am reading many people seem to not take issue with messaging people for senate elections. Is that true? Does this mean I can mass message for every nation on the red team, for the senate elections, and have no repercussions? Yes, or at least I dont care... Its not like I already received senate spam on red or anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalaskan Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 In context, I can see why they feel slighted. Jus saying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kroknia Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Good for you, I'm glad there are so many experienced rulers on here that really know what they're talking about.Of course if a nation has an issue, it's open for discussion. However, if their argument fails, then they must make a choice. Stay or leave. In a totalitarian state, they wouldn't have that choice. If they are choosing to stay, then obviously they don't disagree strongly with their alliance's policies. If you are in an alliance, you are accepting and supporting your government, which represents the people. EDIT: And when another alliance ignores the pleas of the people's representation, when they disrespect that government, they are doing the same to the people of that alliance. Canik, I can only say my theory on this is that the senate and senators is a color issue not an alliance one. I think any member of any alliance should be voting for whomever they think is the best candidate in the color, not for who their alliance tells them. I did it on pink during the post GW3 times and won 4 senate seats in a row by saying we were working for the color. I think this was far better than just "Vote for X because your alliance says so" and a better way for senate races to be conducted overall. Sure, Avalon asked for them not to do this, but the issue is why and why on this stage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tequila Mockingbird Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Vote Stickmen for Stickmen, Stickmen is Stickmen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louisa Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 So what did I learn today? Purple is full of whiny little babies and clearly need the firm guiding hand of those dashing Fenno-Liberians (properly supervised by His Majesty Stumpy). Avalon, take heed! Haflinger runs wildly around IRC threatening war and then Locke comes in and says that he has no authority to do that. Gogo Invicta! Oh god I am so glad I am Black where people at least have humour... Also Stickmen automatically has my support just for the catboxes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikz Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 (edited) So what did I learn today?Purple is full of whiny little babies and clearly need the firm guiding hand of those dashing Fenno-Liberians (properly supervised by His Majesty Stumpy). Avalon, take heed! Haflinger runs wildly around IRC threatening war and then Locke comes in and says that he has no authority to do that. Gogo Invicta! Oh god I am so glad I am Black where people at least have humour... Also Stickmen automatically has my support just for the catboxes Did you expect anything less? Stickmen moved and Halflinger tried to deliver. Too bad people don't back their threats anymore. Edit; spell spell Edited October 8, 2009 by erikz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kowalski Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Bypassing the government of an alliance and directly messaging their members regarding senate seats is pretty poor form. If you want an alliance's members to vote for the senate candidate of your alliance/bloc then how about building up a relationship with said alliance and proposing the idea. What if the alliance already had their own candidate or already backed one from another alliance? Would ODN spamming IRON members for their senate votes be accepted? Of course it wouldn't. Stickmen are just following NSO's lead of pushing certain boundaries that have been in place for a while and seeing what the reaction is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litha Riddle Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 I'm pretty sure the NPO used to Spam everyone on the red team regardless of alliance at one point in time. I could be wrong thought since I have never been on the red team.Edit, eh, poor quote choice, but you get the point. Imitation is the most sincerest form of flattery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spearo Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 (edited) How so? The senate race for purple is serperate from the alliances, if we wish to run campaign to the nations of purple as sovereign members of the purple sphere we may do so, also this has been doen in the Red sphere by NPO. Also orange team nations flying the affiliation of IRON and ODN have an agreement among themselves regarding the senate so that is a different matter. Also copying NSO? Blasphemy we are nothing if not original :D Edited October 8, 2009 by spearo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutkase Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 (edited) How so? The senate race for purple is serperate from the alliances, if we wish to run campaign to the nations of purple as sovereign members of the purple sphere we may do so, also this has been doen in the Red sphere by NPO. Haha so your defense is if NPO did it so can we?, and look where they are now in the realm of things You used a underarm tactic to try and get into a more powerful position. Not the best way to go about things Edited October 8, 2009 by nutkase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Janova Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Something else which was done on Red sphere by NPO was sanctioning people who tried to 'invade' 'their' Senate, so I don't think using them as an example of sending Senate messages being acceptable has quite the effect you were intending. The NPO claimed, and maintained by military force, complete control over Red, and clearly Stickmen is not in that position on Purple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teriethien Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 How so? The senate race for purple is serperate from the alliances, if we wish to run campaign to the nations of purple as sovereign members of the purple sphere we may do so, also this has been doen in the Red sphere by NPO. If senate races are separate from alliances then this wouldn't be an electoral campaign by alliances versus existing PEACE alliances now would it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spearo Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 (edited) Haha so your defense is if NPO did it so can we?, and look where they are now in the realm of thingsYou used a underarm tactic to try and get into a more powerful position. Not the best way to go about things NPO's senate campaigns are irrelevant to where they find themselves today however it serves as an example for something along these lines having been done before not raising any objections. Underarm tactic? Arguments are always more compelling when you get your sayings wrong making you look intelligent and such. We are within our rights to message any member of the purple sphere in a campaign for the senate as a nations senate vote is decided by the nations ruler and no one else, if they choose to listen to our campaign so be it. Something else which was done on Red sphere by NPO was sanctioning people who tried to 'invade' 'their' Senate, so I don't think using them as an example of sending Senate messages being acceptable has quite the effect you were intending. The NPO claimed, and maintained by military force, complete control over Red, and clearly Stickmen is not in that position on Purple. I was referring to a specific part of NPO's methods for maintaining the senate that being blanket voting messages. If senate races are separate from alliances then this wouldn't be an electoral campaign by alliances versus existing PEACE alliances now would it. Our senator is running in competition with senators who as it happens are backed by the member alliances of PEACE however the decision of who to vote for in the senate remains that of the respective rulers of purple nations, if PEACE wishes to message purple nations who are also members of Stickmen alliances as sovereign nations in a senate campaign they may do so. Edited October 8, 2009 by spearo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlashill Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Our senator is running in competition with senators who as it happens are backed by the member alliances of PEACE however the decision of who to vote for in the senate remains that of the respective rulers of purple nations, if PEACE wishes to message purple nations who are also members of Stickmen alliances as sovereign nations in a senate campaign they may do so. Quoted for posterity and verification of Stickmen policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molleh Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Quoted for posterity and verification of Stickmen policy. I said this before and I'll say it again. Most nations in Stickmen have the ability to take the LESS THAN 2 SECONDS it takes to click on the name of the message sender and check the AA. "Is this alliance telling me to vote for a senator in my alliance or an ally? No? Ok I'll vote for one of my allies instead then." Surely not a difficult task. Finding the AA of who sent you a message is less difficult than voting itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spearo Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 (edited) Quoted for posterity and verification of Stickmen policy. Here I will point out I am not a Government official of SLCB and as such I speak only my opinion and not on behalf of SLCB or other Stickmen albeit I believe what I said to be the truth Edited October 8, 2009 by spearo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kowalski Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 How so? The senate race for purple is serperate from the alliances, if we wish to run campaign to the nations of purple as sovereign members of the purple sphere we may do so, also this has been doen in the Red sphere by NPO.Also orange team nations flying the affiliation of IRON and ODN have an agreement among themselves regarding the senate so that is a different matter. Also copying NSO? Blasphemy we are nothing if not original :D The difference is that the red nations that NPO traditionally mass-messaged would have been unaligned. And yes, maybe the orange sphere example was a poor choice due to a specific agreement but the principle remains the same - I don't think Fark would be too happy if MHA PM'd all of their nations urging them to vote for the MHA candidate and therefore lost their senate seat (not that would happen of course, because MHA have a seat comfortably and Fark members are pretty on-the-ball). To say that a race for a senate seat is separate from the alliances in the team just isn't true. You may not agree with it, but it's still true. Some colour unity blocs are based on it, some alliances have agreements regarding it and some alliances have it as part of protectorate agreements. Sure, some alliances don't care about it and some alliances have members that are not of that team colour and therefore don't vote for that alliance's senator so are fair game, but to outright mass-PM an entire alliance without asking them about their policy on the matter of the senate is pretty cheeky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locke Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 So when the next senate reset comes around, should we be expecting a more strongly worded formal complaint? I do believe that it was Avalon, not Invicta that lodged the original complaint. You know, the one that's not even a PEACE signatory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D34th Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 This remember New Reverie drama about red senate. At least in those era, it could cause a great war, good times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikz Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Btw, complaints should be lodged by the governments you are complaining about, not on the OWF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spearo Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 The difference is that the red nations that NPO traditionally mass-messaged would have been unaligned. And yes, maybe the orange sphere example was a poor choice due to a specific agreement but the principle remains the same - I don't think Fark would be too happy if MHA PM'd all of their nations urging them to vote for the MHA candidate and therefore lost their senate seat (not that would happen of course, because MHA have a seat comfortably and Fark members are pretty on-the-ball).To say that a race for a senate seat is separate from the alliances in the team just isn't true. You may not agree with it, but it's still true. Some colour unity blocs are based on it, some alliances have agreements regarding it and some alliances have it as part of protectorate agreements. Sure, some alliances don't care about it and some alliances have members that are not of that team colour and therefore don't vote for that alliance's senator so are fair game, but to outright mass-PM an entire alliance without asking them about their policy on the matter of the senate is pretty cheeky. NPO mass emssaged anyone on red alligned or not Also if MHA did so by messaging all of Aqua in a sphere wide campaign for senate then although there would be nothing inherently wrong with that although yes Fark would likely be upset with it however I have not said PEACE is not allowed to be annoyed at purple nations who they want to vote for their candidates voting for ours only that we have done nothing wrong in running our campaign. Yes alliances may wish for nations who are members of the alliance to vote for candidates chosen by the government of that alliance but in the end the senate is a free race and who a ruler votes for is up to the ruler to decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingoist Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 except they didn't. they posted that they were siding with PEACE this election only because stickmen didn't honor their request. This doesn't link the issues at all. The issue here is that avalon doesn't want their members spammed. nothing else. how were we supposed to have gone back in time to unsend the messages that had already gone out which prompted this thread? the only way we can be said to have not honoured their request is if we spam them next senate reset. this is not rocket science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elpadrino Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 the only reasonable solution to this is war, there is no other way. So start Great War VI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairmanHal Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 So what did I learn today?Purple is full of whiny little babies and clearly need the firm guiding hand of those dashing Fenno-Liberians (properly supervised by His Majesty Stumpy). Avalon, take heed! Haflinger runs wildly around IRC threatening war and then Locke comes in and says that he has no authority to do that. Gogo Invicta! Oh god I am so glad I am Black where people at least have humour... Also Stickmen automatically has my support just for the catboxes I learned that firmly, but very politely telling people in public to stop spamming you results in 26 pages of empty threats, posturing, phony complaints about the suppression of free speech rights, and stories about how people used to get shot for trespassing on someone's lawn. I also learned that if you can control a team Senate, you can effectively wipe out the trades of the top 30 people in an alliance. Perhaps not the H-bomb, but potentially economically devastating and why people at times take the whole Senate voting thing so seriously. I think however it's time for the next shiny object or bouncy ball to come along and distract the masses and political operatives. There's nothing left to see here. There actually wasn't anything to see here at all after page 1, but this is Planet Bob after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spearo Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 (edited) When purple is involved everything is guranteed to be dragged out exaggerated and then repeated 10-15 times. Edited October 8, 2009 by spearo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts