Archon Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 (edited) I genuinely believe that we can have a constructive conversation on this without actually devolving down to petty disputes. You get enough of it on WA, but given that there may be a need to discuss OOC related factors, I'm posting this in here. So, here's the thesis. There have been numerous figures in Cybernations who have held positions of power based solely on reputation or past deeds and have done terrible jobs in those positions. I'm not going to sit here and name individuals (and I know some of you will give me **** for it), but I do believe it to be the case. I'm curious to see who comes up and more importantly what sort of reasoning is put forward. Of course, that means I'm expecting people to back up their claims, which may be asking for too much... And before I end this, you might ask why even post this, when it'll probably just devolve into trolling. My rationale is as follows: if an alliance is suffering the leadership of unqualified leaders due solely to their reputation, nepotism, or something of a similar variety, this might help make that clear to the alliance. You'd be surprised how blind people can be, but also how passionate they can be when it comes to the betterment of their alliance. Either that, or this'll end in failure and the mods will come in with a mercy killing. It'll be locked, drop off the front page, and no one will even remember it. So...fire away. Edit: If people want...they can email me their thoughts and I'll post them anonymously...I don't mind that. archonshield at gmail dot com Edited October 5, 2009 by TheNeverender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoLauzier Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 hooo thats hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta1212 Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Archon is massively overrated. He doesn't even post on here anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperion321 Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Are we talking about current gov officials? Or ones throughout history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archon Posted October 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Are we talking about current gov officials? Or ones throughout history. Both, I suppose, though with an ideal focus on current. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coursca Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 I'm pretty overrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janax Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 If I were rated at all, it would definitely be in the over category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 (edited) If I were rated at all, it would definitely be in the over category. Yeah, I'm gonna go with this. Edited October 5, 2009 by Antoine Roquentin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian LaCroix Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 I am most certainly overrated. But that's the joy of democracy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Believland Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 I'm pretty overrated. Very much so I've not really worked with anyone overrated, thankfully. If I were to say anyone was overrated it would have to be VanHoo to some extent. Even though, he never actually got a position because of him being Hoo. :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janax Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Yeah, I'm gonna go with this. Wait...me or you? )): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta1212 Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Well, I honestly think most highly rated high gov is overrated. Don't get me wrong, there are some very strong leaders about, but a very large chunk of the credit for most people's major successes as leaders really goes to the lower gov that do the majority of the footwork to make everything function. A New Pacific Order, or even a Mushroom Kingdom for that matter, need strong leadership to hold them together properly but successful alliances don't run on personality alone. An amazing leader can get people to do amazing things, but the trick is bringing out talent and getting it where it needs to be. Even the best can't build a successful alliance out of nothing. The too long; didn't read is something along the lines of the backbone of an army being the sergeants rather than the generals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Wait...me or you?)): Settle down. You know what I meant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopherbashi Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 I know that my urge to bite my tongue on this issue is not going to win out, so I'll hope that someone else says what's on my mind before I get myself into a heap of trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperion321 Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Both, I suppose, though with an ideal focus on current. In that case, It's been said that Ivan's been rather inactive as far as Monarch's go since his return to CN and founding of NSO. If that were true, I wouldn't really call that a quality that is very constructive for his alliance. Any NSO member is welcome to refute my statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coursca Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Yeah, I'm gonna go with this. Quoted for great justice. Very much so I've not really worked with anyone overrated, thankfully. If I were to say anyone was overrated it would have to be VanHoo to some extent. Even though, he never actually got a position because of him being Hoo. :/ Ehhhh...you can do better, BEazy. Wait...me or you?)): I don't know, you did have Emperor of Cheese in your government for a while. And Otter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 (edited) I think a lot of it is just resume-building. When I joined this tiny, tiny alliance ROFL after UjW they made me MoD because since I was in GOONS I was clearly a military expert. Then when ROFL merged into Purge and UberSpion (then MoD of Purge) quit in protest, they naturally made me MoD. When all gov except me and Kharn420 quit Purge during the TPF takeover, I rode the wave to Emperor. When Purge disbanded I chilled for a month or two before getting elected to MoFA of Browncaots based again simply on lack of talent and past positions. A lot of incompetent gov can be attributed to the proliferation of alliances. The demand is greater than the supply. Seriously, how many alliances--even out of the sanctioned alliances--have MoDs that are actually experts? How many alliances' econ people are actual number whizzes or even do anything? In that case, It's been said that Ivan's been rather inactive as far as Monarch's go since his return to CN and founding of NSO. If that were true, I wouldn't really call that a quality that is very constructive for his alliance. Any NSO member is welcome to refute my statement. I've always been told that Ivan is "more of an ideas man." If your deputies are competent, a leader with ideas works. Edited October 5, 2009 by Schattenmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Believland Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Ehhhh...you can do better, BEazy. I'm sorry Cour, that my put down did not do you enough Justice! For this, I shall take many of whips in hopes to become more wittier. Really though, it's good for being exhausted. Oh yeah, don't forget Poobah too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhysicsJunky Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 This is the sort of thing that only has a chance to succeed if it's anonymous. I could name half a dozen that jump to mind but I'm not going to post anything because it would put not only my ability to deal with said people's allies but the rest of my alliance at risk. If you're looking for some real, genuine comments Archon I'd suggest finding some semi-retired person of unquestionable character people can send their summaries to that can turn around and compile them as an anonymous digest at the start of a new topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 (edited) If you're looking for some real, genuine comments Archon I'd suggest finding some semi-retired person of unquestionable character people can send their summaries to that can turn around and compile them as an anonymous digest at the start of a new topic. I would suggest Archon. Edited October 5, 2009 by Schattenmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 I'll go out on a limb and say Dilber in the last year or so. He has a reputation for excellent diplomacy but the NPO's FA actions during the Karma war build-up and the weeks/months before it were quite incompetent, notably by not doing much to properly maintain their relationships, and he in his position is at least partially responsible for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wickedj Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 I don't know, you did have Emperor of Cheese in your government for a while. And Otter. That could be the most overrated government..EVAR In unrelated news i wish to nominate Allied Threat just for lulz and Fireguy too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coursca Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Well, I honestly think most highly rated high gov is overrated. Don't get me wrong, there are some very strong leaders about, but a very large chunk of the credit for most people's major successes as leaders really goes to the lower gov that do the majority of the footwork to make everything function. A New Pacific Order, or even a Mushroom Kingdom for that matter, need strong leadership to hold them together properly but successful alliances don't run on personality alone. An amazing leader can get people to do amazing things, but the trick is bringing out talent and getting it where it needs to be. Even the best can't build a successful alliance out of nothing.The too long; didn't read is something along the lines of the backbone of an army being the sergeants rather than the generals. Perhaps, though I do know a few higher-level leaders that have a good sense of both the 'strategic' and 'tactical' landscape -- the micromanagers of the world. They are rare, though. I think your observation is generalizable for most large alliances -- the middle and lower management does a LOT of the legwork. I know I wouldn't have been able to accomplish any of what I did the last four months without a solid group of managers (and hardworking members). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejayrazz Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Archon, I have much respect for this thread. I would nominate all them leaders who allow their emotions to engulf their senses during diplomatic situations and completely blow up and misrepresent themselves and their alliance. This eliminates half of the 'big wigs'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 (edited) I think me and WalkerNinja have been not-enemies long enough to say in frankness that I absolutely had no clue how he kept in gov of ODN. He's even noted himself since then that in the past he did some outright retarded crap. Perils of democracy. I definitely think that from all that crap, he learned a lot and I've 180ed in my opinion of him over the last 6 months. An overrated gov can definitely grow into a good gov. Keeping in mind, faithful readers, I know better than anyone my own weaknesses; at the same time WN was rising, Sunstar was calling me generally retarded (bc I was [or "am", if you're a jerk]) Edited October 5, 2009 by Schattenmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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