A Brief Announcement from the Orange Defense Network

[merlin]

Not really. You don't see people telling brand-new alliances "lol you haven't fought a losing war yet, you're dishonorable." But when you've weaseled your way out of it three times in a row, then yeah, people are gonna want to see a demonstration before they believe it.

-Bama

Honestly we've been over this so many times before its starting to get obnoxious.

You don't know anything about us. You blatantly disregard the facts of the situation and the testimonies of numerous players in order to smear us as "weasels". 'People' want to see a demonstration? Who do you speak for again? Your alliance? The cool kids? Or is it just you, the hero with no glass house; the arbiter beyond all reproach.

[LiquidMercury]

Definitely the cool kids.

[shahenshah]

INT's history isn't very long, so I can tell you about only two incidents where we got into hot water and ODN unequivocally backed us. Out of respect for the other alliances involved I won't go into much detail about the first, suffice to say it took place from March 9 to March 19, 2009 and ended with Comrade Craig issuing a public apology and Viridian Entente canceling a bunch of treaties; both threads are a matter of public record. ODN, out of concern for our well-being felt compelled to engage in extraordinary intervention on our behalf, and while some would argue that doing so made the situation more volatile, it does speak to the lengths ODN was willing to go on our behalf.

Now I can back INT's statement of ODN's support in that case, I recall the interventions.

Just for your clarification, VE wasnt the only one cancelling treaties.

Edited September 26, 2009 by shahenshah

[Tiggah]

Not really. You don't see people telling brand-new alliances "lol you haven't fought a losing war yet, you're dishonorable." But when you've weaseled your way out of it three times in a row, then yeah, people are gonna want to see a demonstration before they believe it.

-Bama

How bout this then, we ally, then you start an unwinnable war and we'll back you to prove a point? Honest and for truly, we'll be there. You just go get things started. Treaty below. Sign it, go to war, and free us from our shame!

We, the Optional Defense Network, hereby deem BamaBuc the epitomy of awesomeness and promise to back him in any and all ridiculous wars that he may or may not start. You bring the pain to him, and we bring the pain to you. That is all. kthxbye.

Tiggah of Hundred Acre Wood - Minister of Mocking the Peasantry

Grab your bags. It's on!

Edited September 26, 2009 by Tiggah

[The Pansy]

We, Tiggah's Optional Defense Network, hereby deem The Pansy the epitomy of pinkness and promise to back him in any and all ridiculous wars that he may or may not start. You bring the pain to him, and we bring the pain to you. That is all. kthxbye.

Tiggah of Hundred Acre Wood - Minister of Mocking the Peasantry

OMFG Tiggah is back in the ODN......

I will sign one of these... I made some edits for ya Tiggs

edit:. first target is the one known as Bill N Troll

Edited September 26, 2009 by The Pansy

[Tiggah]

OMFG Tiggah is back in the ODN......

I will sign one of these... I made some edits for ya Tiggs

edit:. first target is the one known as Bill N Troll

You know those nights when you get so drunk you wake up in the morning without any memory of the previous evening and in a relationship with someone.. we'll be nice and go with "regrettable", but want to keep up a reputation of being able to handle your alchohol so pretend like you meant to do it? Well, did it and passed the stage of regret, so here I remain. Orange is Tiggahriffic once again.

Also, you like my banner? I made it myself in Paint.

[The Pansy]

You know those nights when you get so drunk you wake up in the morning without any memory of the previous evening and in a relationship with someone.. we'll be nice and go with "regrettable", but want to keep up a reputation of being able to handle your alchohol so pretend like you meant to do it? Well, did it and passed the stage of regret, so here I remain. Orange is Tiggahriffic once again.

Also, you like my banner? I made it myself in Paint.

Less chat Tiggles...... where is mah Treaty.

I want to cause some trouble

[Chalaskan]

Oh my, I think I just died from you amazing wit. Truly, you have made this thread a better place.

I almost spit beer when I read it.

Now I can back INT's statement of ODN's support in that case, I recall the interventions.

Just for your clarification, VE wasnt the only one cancelling treaties.

That is the worse thing he could have said for his arguement. Hence, he left it out.

[Style #386]

That is the worse thing he could have said for his arguement. Hence, he left it out.

Not really, no.

[Franklin]

I am pleased to see this, really it seemed as if there was no need by either side of these treaties to increase communications and hence these treaties have served their purposes in the past but have no relevance for the future. Forward. B)

[Alterego]

Congrats, NAPs are pointless anyway.

[Timeline]

ODN congrats on working out what it is you want.

To everyone else who is posting in this topic, ODN can cancel any treaty they see fit, why judge them on doing what they think is best for their alliance, I am sure you would cancel treaties that you no longer hold in re-guard.

I am sure ODN had told the alliance's they cancelled on their reasons for cancelling the treaties and that's all that is needed.

[bill n ted]

Congrats on cleaning up your treaties; itll still be interesting as always to see what MDP's youll honour as and when the inevitable crunch comes and what government/former government member(s) will be the scapegoats.

As ODN has stated it has little interest in OUT these days does that mean ODN will be withdrawing? Seens as your getting rid of treaties you dont need/want I see little reason for ODN to remain in OUT, or is there an ulterior motive for ODN keeping its signature on OUT? Is it for the NAP that forms a part of OUT that you dont want to get rid of?

Just curious

[BamaBuc]

Honestly we've been over this so many times before its starting to get obnoxious.

You don't know anything about us. You blatantly disregard the facts of the situation and the testimonies of numerous players in order to smear us as "weasels". 'People' want to see a demonstration? Who do you speak for again? Your alliance? The cool kids? Or is it just you, the hero with no glass house; the arbiter beyond all reproach.

Just saying, not everyone's gonna take your word for it the fourth time through. This thread is evidence enough of that. I look forward to being proven wrong. Really, I do.

I'm not entirely sure hoe the facts of the situation could have warranted betraying half your allies. But okay.

I based my statement that "people want to see a demonstration before they believe it" on the numerous people in this thread and other threads who have said things like this:

Person: "lol ODN."

ODN: "we've changed."

Person: "I'll believe it when I see it."

How bout this then, we ally, then you start an unwinnable war and we'll back you to prove a point? Honest and for truly, we'll be there. You just go get things started. Treaty below. Sign it, go to war, and free us from our shame!

Grab your bags. It's on!

Signed for United Dixie,

BamaBuc, Head of State

Thanks, I'll remember that if I feel like starting a war and need backup.

-Bama

[scythegfx]

Scythegfx, I really appreciate the time you took to respond to the queries in ODN's thread, but at the expense of coming off as redundant and foolish as you did, was it really worth it?

[ooc]Well, I've got plenty of time, I was off work yesterday and I'm homeless, so I spent my time at the library reading and commenting on this here gem of a thread[ooc]

In your mind maybe but i have been around long enough to have a different opinion

Oh, my play the "I'm so much older than you" card. A) please check my nation age, and B] Remember this is not my first nation. So I'ne been around the block as well, buddy.

It's funny how sometimes you can dig a hole for yourself, and for some reason, you just can't stop digging. It was a PIAT that we canceled, yet you are acting as if we had the most stellar relationship ever. I've never seen someone quote so many people yet make so few points. If you're going to actually say something worth reading, at least warn us prior to posting all those quote tags. I would've just skipped over it to begin with.

Well, it was downgraded to a PIAT after ODN showed how inept it was at actually reading and honoring its MDP's

You could just ban your members from posting in said threads.

I almost laughed out loud, which may have had me ejected from the [ooc] library[ooc]. Bad LJ, Bad!

Check your messages.

Does this mean I'm going to get yelled at now? oh BOOHOOHOOHOO.

We kept the PIAT because, at the time, your actions justified it. Why, after persuading us to keep it, you went on to ignore our government, is something of a mystery to me.

Well, not the ignoring. I know why that happened. It's the first part.

God I wish this place had MK's "Its's a mystery" Smiley.

[Twizzler]

We kept the PIAT because, at the time, your actions justified it. Why, after persuading us to keep it, you went on to ignore our government, is something of a mystery to me.

Well, not the ignoring. I know why that happened. It's the first part.

IIRC, it was Invicta who spearheaded the effort to keep the PIAT after the cancellation of the MDP.

Also, I gotta say its highly unlikely that the ODN ignored Invicta's government. It takes two to have a conversation. Perhaps we didn't go and directly contact you, but neither did you. I can see how that is completely ODN's fault though.

[hizzy]

I really cant check the whole thread but from what I gather;

ODN: we cancel treaties

People who got cancelled: lol optional defence network

Is that it? Cause just to throw it out there... wouldn't ODN be doing you a favour? Is cancelling a treaty worse than keeping and holding on to a treaty with someone you don't even respect?

[Timeline]

I really cant check the whole thread but from what I gather;

ODN: we cancel treaties

People who got cancelled: lol optional defence network

Is that it? Cause just to throw it out there... wouldn't ODN be doing you a favour? Is cancelling a treaty worse than keeping and holding on to a treaty with someone you don't even respect?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Has just won the ODN Topic ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Locke]

IIRC, it was Invicta who spearheaded the effort to keep the PIAT after the cancellation of the MDP.

Also, I gotta say its highly unlikely that the ODN ignored Invicta's government. It takes two to have a conversation. Perhaps we didn't go and directly contact you, but neither did you. I can see how that is completely ODN's fault though.

I can go root around, but I know we wanted to cancel it. I think it was Joracy that convinced us to keep it.

[pigsticker]

it's just a NAP... PC and TPF has shown in the last war the uselessness of NAPs...

not going to lose any sleep over this..

[joracy]

I can go root around, but I know we wanted to cancel it. I think it was Joracy that convinced us to keep it.

You guys offered a NAP. I believe sunstar mentioned to Jorost later that we could go back to the original PIAT instead of a straight NAP, but when Jorost gave me the notice of cancellation, he offered a NAP with it.

Well, it was downgraded to a PIAT after ODN showed how inept it was at actually reading and honoring its MDP's

You see, it's really funny that you say that, because it's exactly what happened. Just not the way you think it did. When you guys original wrote the MDP, for some odd reason you wrote this really strange clause that basically made it so either side could ignore the treaty if it was "unreasonable". I remember when it first got brought up, I was like "errr, this is cool and all, but wtf?" but we decided hey, if you guys wrote it like that, then fine. Then after the war, you guys yelled at us because we didn't need to suspend the treaty, we could have legally just ignored it(Which certainly was our mistake. We had been working on a larger scale, this side and that side. When we chose our side, we didn't look at the specific treaties, but grouped them together. Whoops, I guess we kinda dropped the ball there). So yeah, we really did screw up when it came to reading the treaty. We could have just ignored it and followed it 100 percent .

[Haflinger]

You guys offered a NAP. I believe sunstar mentioned to Jorost later that we could go back to the original PIAT instead of a straight NAP, but when Jorost gave me the notice of cancellation, he offered a NAP with it.

Yeah, that was what we had settled on internally. Basically the NAP offer was an indication we didn't want to fight you guys.

You see, it's really funny that you say that, because it's exactly what happened. Just not the way you think it did. When you guys original wrote the MDP, for some odd reason you wrote this really strange clause that basically made it so either side could ignore the treaty if it was "unreasonable". I remember when it first got brought up, I was like "errr, this is cool and all, but wtf?" but we decided hey, if you guys wrote it like that, then fine. Then after the war, you guys yelled at us because we didn't need to suspend the treaty, we could have legally just ignored it(Which certainly was our mistake. We had been working on a larger scale, this side and that side. When we chose our side, we didn't look at the specific treaties, but grouped them together. Whoops, I guess we kinda dropped the ball there). So yeah, we really did screw up when it came to reading the treaty. We could have just ignored it and followed it 100 percent .

Actually, Diomede wrote that clause.

Diomede and I wrote the treaty together. He wrote most of it, I made some changes.

[Tiggah]

Congrats on cleaning up your treaties; itll still be interesting as always to see what MDP's youll honour as and when the inevitable crunch comes and what government/former government member(s) will be the scapegoats.

As ODN has stated it has little interest in OUT these days does that mean ODN will be withdrawing? Seens as your getting rid of treaties you dont need/want I see little reason for ODN to remain in OUT, or is there an ulterior motive for ODN keeping its signature on OUT? Is it for the NAP that forms a part of OUT that you dont want to get rid of?

Just curious

I'm not sure what you mean on the opener. Do you honestly believe that there is something about becoming a member of the ODN that makes you gutless? Perhaps individually we may be alright, but united we are gutless? You're more than welcome to join us and do a research study on the phenomenon, though we'd have to request you come with a ball gag.

As for part 2, I'd say that it's more that we have little interest in developing OUT at this time. Not much point in putting forth the effort when one of the key partners won't even provide an embassy to us, legitimate reasons or not. I'd say that's pretty much a statement that development of OUT is not an option. Ultimately we've always been committed to orange unity and will likely remain so, even if at the present time that seems like a pipe dream. We don't have a better option than OUT at this time to achieve that goal, so why move to leave it? If you and your alliance want us removed, you're more than welcome to have your citrus councillor put forth a motion and see where that goes.

[Locke]

You guys offered a NAP. I believe sunstar mentioned to Jorost later that we could go back to the original PIAT instead of a straight NAP, but when Jorost gave me the notice of cancellation, he offered a NAP with it.

You see, it's really funny that you say that, because it's exactly what happened. Just not the way you think it did. When you guys original wrote the MDP, for some odd reason you wrote this really strange clause that basically made it so either side could ignore the treaty if it was "unreasonable". I remember when it first got brought up, I was like "errr, this is cool and all, but wtf?" but we decided hey, if you guys wrote it like that, then fine. Then after the war, you guys yelled at us because we didn't need to suspend the treaty, we could have legally just ignored it(Which certainly was our mistake. We had been working on a larger scale, this side and that side. When we chose our side, we didn't look at the specific treaties, but grouped them together. Whoops, I guess we kinda dropped the ball there). So yeah, we really did screw up when it came to reading the treaty. We could have just ignored it and followed it 100 percent .

Yeah, just dug around and found it (finally <.<). Jor gave the initial 72 hours to you, then to Sunstar, then Sunstar floated the idea of a PIAT over, we agreed after discussion and made it so.

[joracy]

I hate digging for stuff It took me ages to find where I posted the original logs with Jor(Stupid forums being all weird)