Crimson Guard Edict #5: Ultimatum to Internet Superheroes

[LegendoftheSkies]

Well anyone who isn't a complete and utter idiot knows that CM's, and bombers are not part of raiding, and being that Pink has a large tech raiding influence, I'm gunna guess that you know what your doing.

Personally, I never saw an issue with using bombers since they destroy tanks and thus make ground attacks easier and they also hinder your opponent in case they try to fight back. CM's definitely shouldn't be used since they actually destroy the tech you're trying to take.

[Inquisitor Tolkien]

The Fact that everyone is arguing about the same exact things we were arguing about when I left the thread makes me a pretty happy person.

GC, Your tears are delicious etc.

FAKE EDITTTTT (GRAMMAR)

What does the Grey Council have to do with this thread?

[Thorgrum]

Just a quick post, taken from IS's boards:

See the underlined, as I had asked above, anything more than 2 GA's is an attack, not a raid. IS's raiding guidelines confirm that they also believe this.

http://is.ipbfree.com/index.php?showtopic=8 (you don't need to be masked to see it)

Thanks for that man, so now we know based on thier own rules it isnt a tech raid. NM my other posts not that they were overly important I mean the RAD guy claimed it was a tech raid right?

So who are CG friends and when do they now put up or shut up? (looks at the thread title)

IS sending payments or not?

[Thorgrum]

Just a quick post, taken from IS's boards:

See the underlined, as I had asked above, anything more than 2 GA's is an attack, not a raid. IS's raiding guidelines confirm that they also believe this.

http://is.ipbfree.com/index.php?showtopic=8 (you don't need to be masked to see it)

Thanks for that man, so now we know based on thier own rules it isnt a tech raid. NM my other posts not that they were overly important I mean the RAD guy claimed it was a tech raid right?

So who are CG friends and when do they now put up or shut up? (looks at the thread title)

IS sending payments or not?

[LordAkanata]

See the underlined, as I had asked above, anything more than 2 GA's is an attack, not a raid. IS's raiding guidelines confirm that they also believe this.

http://is.ipbfree.com/index.php?showtopic=8 (you don't need to be masked to see it)

This incident looks like IS is providing massive military assistance, against their tech raiding policy. Once again confirming that this isn't a raid, it's war.

Also, why am I arguing with RAD members? Where did all the IS people go?

[BamaBuc]

Just a quick post, taken from IS's boards:

See the underlined, as I had asked above, anything more than 2 GA's is an attack, not a raid. IS's raiding guidelines confirm that they also believe this.

http://is.ipbfree.com/index.php?showtopic=8 (you don't need to be masked to see it)

That and the fact that at first they even said it was not a raid. Somewhere in the middle of this thread, someone went back in time and made it a raid, apparently.

-Bama

[Druss the Legend]

Tears? You underestimate us.

Couldn't you just bequeath me a few tears?

[Inquisitor Tolkien]

That and the fact that at first they even said it was not a raid. Somewhere in the middle of this thread, someone went back in time and made it a raid, apparently.

-Bama

*shrugs*

Spin happens.

[Aeternos Astramora]

Just a quick post, taken from IS's boards:

See the underlined, as I had asked above, anything more than 2 GA's is an attack, not a raid. IS's raiding guidelines confirm that they also believe this.

http://is.ipbfree.com/index.php?showtopic=8 (you don't need to be masked to see it)

That's just priceless.

[Groucho Marx]

I see both of you are basically saying that you are able to do this because CG had no treaties and thus was an easy target. I'm not going to spin it any more. I hate might makes right, but c'est la vive.

What else is there to get from that? They knew the risks of not having treaties. And that does make them an easy tech raid target, in fact, that's what all (smart) tech raiders look for - Alliances without treaties or unaligned players. Crimson Guard fit that criteria.

That criteria will never change either.

Edited August 21, 2009 by Emperor Marx

[Virillus]

Because if it was proven to be a tech raid... That would make everything better, right?

[Fernando12]

War is War...

Anyone can perform a tech raid as they see fit, fine...

Tech raids are a violation of a nation's sovereignty whether they are in an alliance or not and can have consequences, don't care what the "rules" are everyone has their own interpretation and what is right is up to each individual or alliance...

It matters not whether a nation or alliance has signed treaties...just as a sovereign nation or alliance can raid another nation or alliance...that same nation or alliance can in turn be raided by other sovereign nations and alliances

If you don't want a war to escalate beyond "Tech Raid Peace Sent" then don't ever tech raid because you will always have the risk of escalation...

A nation or alliance that is "raided" for the reason that they have no treaties can call on friends, friends have the option to answer that call as well as the option to not disclose when or how they will answer that call...

[FreddieMercury]

Just a quick post, taken from IS's boards:

See the underlined, as I had asked above, anything more than 2 GA's is an attack, not a raid. IS's raiding guidelines confirm that they also believe this.

http://is.ipbfree.com/index.php?showtopic=8 (you don't need to be masked to see it)

Great post

[ChairmanHal]

Ok, quick analysis, imagining I were back working intell gigs again...

1. Crimson Guard is a 12 nation, mostly red team alliance. It has no significant treaties, however it has members that are OWF regulars. These individuals could generate enough sympathy to move people to military action or other forms of aid. The alliance actively engages in tech deals, both selling and buying, to internal and external clients.

2. Two nations are nuclear armed, only 1 has the HNMS wonder. No real naval capability to speak of and not particularly well armed in terms of military wonders, or improvements. Spying capabilities are unknown, but could be significant. Wide range of NS among nations though a significant gap exists between the #1 and #2 nations that constitutes an exploitable weakness in an attack.

3. Alliance appears to be a target of raiders, having been raided by NSO in the past 10 days. PC, FoB and Internet Superheroes have or are conducting raids in the past week. Several spy attacks, most likely associated with said raids and defense of them have taken place in the past 10 days.

Conclusion: While this alliance may make a suitable training target from a military perspective, there is potential for some serious P.R. issues if they squeal loud enough on the OWF. Also, since they regularly do tech deals with outside alliances, there exists the possibility that their clients may intervene militarily if they feel that their investments are at risk. I would recommend not moving forward with an attack as a result, but would instead seek another small alliance to hit for training.

[Stetson76]

Just a quick post, taken from IS's boards:

See the underlined, as I had asked above, anything more than 2 GA's is an attack, not a raid. IS's raiding guidelines confirm that they also believe this.

http://is.ipbfree.com/index.php?showtopic=8 (you don't need to be masked to see it)

Thank you so much for taking a look at this Fort Pitt.

Despite the fact that "raiding" of any sort is something I find to be ignorant, I do understand that not everyone agrees with me. It's just nice to see that argument off the table.

Edited August 21, 2009 by Stetson

[NLights]

So...basically this is ok because IS sets their own raiding policy?

Wait, really?

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Wait. hahahahahahahaha. Ok. I'm good. I wouldn't mind a few alliances setting their alliance raiding policies to "Only allowed to raid IS nations." And it would be ok because it's their policy. Lol.

[Inquisitor Tolkien]

What else is there to get from that? They knew the risks of not having treaties. And that does make them an easy tech raid target, in fact, that's what all (smart) tech raiders look for - Alliances without treaties or unaligned players. Crimson Guard fit that criteria.

That criteria will never change either.

And it is still a condemnable act. I remember when the OIN was raided by PC. They had more then enough nations and nation strength to be considered an alliance (not to mention they're long history). Somehow calling it a tech raid negates the fact you are declaring aggressive war on an alliance? I don't think so. Bad excuse is bad. Condemnable acts will be condemned and punished.

Also, see Pitt's post.

Because if it was proven to be a tech raid... That would make everything better, right?

Yes, and flowers and unicorns and fairies shall make it rain cookies eternally.

[Groucho Marx]

Because if it was proven to be a tech raid... That would make everything better, right?

Wouldn't matter if it was or wasn't, though it was in this case. CG has no treaties, they placed themselves in this position. If it wasn't IS, it would have just been someone else. The only reason this is getting so much attention is because it is in fact, Internet Superheroes who did this and everyone seems to have a grudge against them.

Exploiting emotions for vengeance, etc. I'm getting tired of repeating myself to everyone saying the exact same thing, over and over which I have already answered.

[Nintenderek]

Just a quick post, taken from IS's boards:

IV. Tech Raid Policy

a. To maintain the rights of individual nation tech raiding will be permitted under strict guidelines.

i. A target will not be a member of an alliance. An alliance is considered an AA that has 15+ members and/or has a valid protection treaty.

ii. As we are a member of the pink team we feel its counter to our goals to attack nations on the pink team. This will be strictly enforced.

iii. Tech raids will be limited to 2 ground attacks then peace sent. If the nation refuses peace or retaliates then you may attack again and then send peace. This may continue until the war has expired.

iv. You raid at your own risk and should you be overtaken by your target you may request diplomatic and monetary assistance from the alliance, we are within our right to refuse this aid. It will be determined on a case by case basis. Under no circumstance will military assistance be provided.

See the underlined, as I had asked above, anything more than 2 GA's is an attack, not a raid. IS's raiding guidelines confirm that they also believe this.

http://is.ipbfree.com/index.php?showtopic=8 (you don't need to be masked to see it)

Haha, that's awesome. It's even better that they leave it open to the public to see.

[Fort Pitt]

I think this is the only time which I have ever sided with people who I normally am arguing against.

Crimson Guard can call upon their ODOAP with FAIL, but of course it being optional I am not sure if FAIL will agree.

[BamaBuc]

Wouldn't matter if it was or wasn't, though it was in this case. CG has no treaties, they placed themselves in this position. If it wasn't IS, it would have just been someone else. The only reason this is getting so much attention is because it is in fact, Internet Superheroes who did this and everyone seems to have a grudge against them.

Exploiting emotions for vengeance, etc. I'm getting tired of repeating myself to everyone saying the exact same thing, over and over which I have already answered.

Actually, I think anyone would take flak for raiding a recognized alliance with CMs and bombers. Granted, a lot of people (myself not the least among them) would get a lot of laughs out of IS being rolled, but that doesn't change the situation.

-Bama

[Inquisitor Tolkien]

Wouldn't matter if it was or wasn't, though it was in this case. CG has no treaties, they placed themselves in this position. If it wasn't IS, it would have just been someone else. The only reason this is getting so much attention is because it is in fact, Internet Superheroes who did this and everyone seems to have a grudge against them.

Exploiting emotions for vengeance, etc. I'm getting tired of repeating myself to everyone saying the exact same thing, over and over which I have already answered.

Quite frankly, I never heard of IS until just this moment, so hasty generalization is hasty. I'm against tech raiding in general, but that's just me. Plus there's the whole "it really isn't a tech raid even by IS standards", thing, but we'll gloss over that, eh?

Edited August 21, 2009 by Tolkien

[Hell Scream]

Ok, quick analysis, imagining I were back working intell gigs again...

1. Crimson Guard is a 12 nation, mostly red team alliance. It has no significant treaties, however it has members that are OWF regulars. These individuals could generate enough sympathy to move people to military action or other forms of aid. The alliance actively engages in tech deals, both selling and buying, to internal and external clients.

2. Two nations are nuclear armed, only 1 has the HNMS wonder. No real naval capability to speak of and not particularly well armed in terms of military wonders, or improvements. Spying capabilities are unknown, but could be significant. Wide range of NS among nations though a significant gap exists between the #1 and #2 nations that constitutes an exploitable weakness in an attack.

3. Alliance appears to be a target of raiders, having been raided by NSO in the past 10 days. PC, FoB and Internet Superheroes have or are conducting raids in the past week. Several spy attacks, most likely associated with said raids and defense of them have taken place in the past 10 days.

Conclusion: While this alliance may make a suitable training target from a military perspective, there is potential for some serious P.R. issues if they squeal loud enough on the OWF. Also, since they regularly do tech deals with outside alliances, there exists the possibility that their clients may intervene militarily if they feel that their investments are at risk. I would recommend not moving forward with an attack as a result, but would instead seek another small alliance to hit for training.

IS's war is the first "raid" on CG. The NSO raid was not a raid, deSouza left NSO after he made an oath not to, but we payed reps for allowing him to enter our alliance.

[Stetson76]

Wouldn't matter if it was or wasn't, though it was in this case. CG has no treaties, they placed themselves in this position. If it wasn't IS, it would have just been someone else. The only reason this is getting so much attention is because it is in fact, Internet Superheroes who did this and everyone seems to have a grudge against them.

Exploiting emotions for vengeance, etc. I'm getting tired of repeating myself to everyone saying the exact same thing, over and over which I have already answered.

I really don't think it's only because it's IS. As has been pointed out already, CG has been raided by other individuals in other alliances and have not brought it to the OWF. The issue is more that it was an alliance wide aggressive war according to everyone, including IS based on their tech raid policy, except apparently RAD.

[Kryievla]

RAD keeps saying it's a tech raid. IS's tech raid rules say a tech raid is something else. Where is IS in all this? What are they calling it? Cause just going by what they have written, looks like a war.

And sure, it might be just because it's IS. I don't care overly much for Crimson Guard, to be quite honest. But, seeing as how IS goes out of it's way to 'educate' folks in a fashion that is not aesthetically appealing, I would be pleased to see them get a dose of their own 'education'.