The Unjust War

[Sigrun Vapneir]

I have to say the UJP is what started this. It gave the strongest rallying cry that had ever been seen in the game. That cry was against them. Major alliances flocked to the NPO and NpO in order to ensure that the UJP was destroyed because they really were that big of jerks.

That's how I remember it too. 

I was with Azaghul in GPA at the time. GOONS, in particular, had violated us enough to completely kill any sympathy for them though.  

Gah that was a long time ago. 

[Tequila Mockingbird]

I didn't take part in the Unjust War, I did however enjoy raiding the inactive nations on the losing side and not getting so much as a slap on the wrist. I'm fairly sure that war brought me above the 1000 raided tech level.

:>

[Bird of Passage]

Regardless of who emerged victorious, history likely would have taken a similar course. The only possible variation I could see would come with an indecisive outcome.

[Fallen Fool]

I am not at all talking about Pacifica-GOONS relations, I am talking about the similarities between their FA policies.

A point which you never clarified in any of your previous posts.

Orphan 300+ players. The resulting diaspora sees many of them scatter to alliances across Planet Bob where they eventually rise to position of influence, power and authority. Consider that many of them weren't happy about being orphaned and blame one alliance and particularly one man for their status. Throw in Sponge threatening, almost compulsively, every alliance that he decides has too many former members of \m/ in it, including Ragnarok.

If it wasn't the sniper, it was the rifle.

Without the diaspora, many of those who went on to leadership positions elsewhere would not have moved on. It's not so much that \m/ would have turned into an ally of Polaris, but that a number of the alliances that actively participated in Polaris' downfall would not have been such staunch opponents.

An interesting argument which doesn't take into account the fact that inevitably that those 300 people, if coalesced, would not miraculously become pro-Polar. It also ignores the inevitability that some of those people would've probably left \m/ on their own, gone to other alliances, and would likely not have had their minds changed and some of them would have inevitably gone off and risen through the ranks of other alliances, and still kept some strong anti-Polar feelings.

Sure it did. Ironically though I would argue that it had more *influence* in death than it ever had as another rider in the Initiative death squad. \m/ in that era had power, \m/ leadership took all the "right" meetings with NPO, and could push people around by virtue of its place among its allies, but outside of that context...not so much. The same could be said for GGA and many of the other alliances in the Initiative.

But that wasn't \m/'s power. It was the Initiatives. The same Initiative power that NPO, NpO, GGA, and so on took advantage of . As such, it was not any of their individual power that enabled them to bully other alliances around, but instead the collective power of the group. Because of that I would label it the "Initiative Era."

[Starcraftmazter]

A point which you never clarified in any of your previous posts.

A point which would not need clarification if you actually followed the discussion you were commenting on...

[Fallen Fool]

A point which would not need clarification if you actually followed the discussion you were commenting on...

Or perhaps I have been following it closely, but I'm just used to certain posters going off on rambling tangents?

[janax]

Me, AnAgent and Rustynail rolled GOONS for MHA. Being a tiny nation at the time, I think I ended up dropping 3 to ZI and fighting 9 different wars offensively and 2 defensive ones.

Most crazy time in CN

[Electron Sponge]

I wasn't aware people still cared, but I guess so. I was UJH, obviously, and while I would have preferred MK not lose I must say that defeat was the beginning of one hell of a path that lead us to greatness few alliances have achieved.

Being allied to me is indeed greatness, yes

Holy **** I never actually put it together that you were the guy I hit Sponge with. Wow.

I enjoyed nuking you both quite a bit. That is actually just about the only time I've enjoyed using the war system. It's also the only time I've gone into a global war with any nukes.

also, obligatory

9/19 NEVER FORGET!!!

This coming September 19th we will celebrate the second anniversary of the second greatest day in the history of Cyber Nations, the day \m/ disbanded. (What's the first greatest day? January 26th 2006, I create a nation.)

[Thomas Jackson]

I love \m/ THIS MUCH.

Also, hai Twisted!

[Master Hakai]

This coming September 19th we will celebrate the second anniversary of the second greatest day in the history of Cyber Nations, the day \m/ disbanded. (What's the first greatest day? January 26th 2006, I create a nation.)

You and I should be BFF's.

[Gurney Halleck]

Was in MHA at the time. Fought a few GOONS. Pretty good people. Still glad ~ won.

[Dochartaigh]

Was a Polar at the time and am glad that ~ won. Some of those alliances just needed to be put down.

[BamaBuc]

Was a Polar at the time and am glad that ~ won. Some of those alliances just needed to be put down.

And I remember arguing about it with you for months afterward.

-Bama

[Dochartaigh]

And I remember arguing about it with you for months afterward.

-Bama

oh good times my friend. good times.

[Atanatar]

I agree Hakai. You and Sponge SHOULD BFF's. When you two finally ask each other out to the prom, i'll have Ted Kennedy drive over a river, and i'll coup that weakling J8. The plan is flawless!

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

I was in GOONS. The UjP should have won or, at the very least, stalemated the ~ alliances.

[Innerspeaker]

Polar at the time, I can't say I wanted GOONS and the UJP to go. I had actually written my resignation post for Polaris in order to join GOONS about a month before the UJP !@#$storm, and ended up keeping it to myself because I knew GOONS was about to trip and bite it. Still, having them and the awesome GOONS leadership around, along with all the \m/ and gay[m]en members would certainly make CN a more interesting place.

In fact, what CN truly needs right now is more 404, banned member, mpol, and lulz to stir the pot. The Karma war certainly set it up for such shenanigans to take place; now all we need is the leadership with experience in such unjust ways.

[John Michaels]

NPO at first and later VE when it reformed. I was on the ~ side and was glad they won, because frankly the backbone of the UJH was a collection of dicks.

[Zizka]

Polar at the time, I can't say I wanted GOONS and the UJP to go. I had actually written my resignation post for Polaris in order to join GOONS about a month before the UJP !@#$storm, and ended up keeping it to myself because I knew GOONS was about to trip and bite it. Still, having them and the awesome GOONS leadership around, along with all the \m/ and gay[m]en members would certainly make CN a more interesting place.

In fact, what CN truly needs right now is more 404, banned member, mpol, and lulz to stir the pot. The Karma war certainly set it up for such shenanigans to take place; now all we need is the leadership with experience in such unjust ways.

mpol lives on.

[Proko]

Random, you were not invited into Continuum because if you had been there wouldn't have been a Continuum to invite you to -- a large number of major players would have left and formed another bloc where you weren't invited, taking the rest with them. The full member-list would have read: 1) NpO 2) NPO.

Perhaps a minor point and certainly an older one in this thread, I think this is a pretty misleading post. While perhaps The Order of the Paradox, The Graemlins, and FOK may not have joined the Continuum, Polaris held, at the time of the formation of the bloc, several binding treaties with members. Off-hand, we were tied to

NPO

IRON

NATO

TPF

MCXA

Sparta

So while some of the alliances that emerged from the Continuum as dominant players may not have participated, at least half of the membership of the Continuum probably would have.

Additionally, regarding the comments concerning BLEU, I can attest that the bloc was generally without internal strife, and on most issues alliances saw eye to eye. I greatly enjoyed working together with alliances in BLEU, even alliances that ended up betraying BLEU.

The existence of BLEU itself also refutes a point of Vladimir's I haven't bothered to quote. He states, roughly, that Polar was some sort of poisonous force within blocs and would see them dismantled. At the time of its disbanding, BLEU was the oldest standing and effective bloc (technically, the Ring Cycle (NPO, GDA, MCXA) was older, but I can't ever recall the Ring Cycle, as a unit, being politically noteworthy whatsoever), and although some alliances (namely MCXA and Echelon) may have in the end had grievances against us, that it was run very fairly and democratically. BLEU stood as a unified force for over a year, longer than the Initiative and longer than Agora. The majority of the alliances in BLEU remain closely tied today, as a testament to the strength of the bonds forged by the member-alliances while within the bloc.

EDIT: I was a minor government official within Polaris at the time of the Unjust War, and I am more than happy with the result. It is not as though I dislike the character of the GOONS themselves (we're protecting their most recent incarnation, after all), a handful of leaders within the GOONS made me favor my own side, even with the clarity of hindsight. I recall reading Daemon banned member post somewhere that, without much cause, the GOONS would, once per week, smash some small alliance until they managed to achieve some goal, perhaps to goad us or another ~ alliance to war.

Additionally, I'd remind some posters in this thread that at the time of the war, GOONS was stronger than Pacifica. Presumably, if GOONS was to defeat the ~ coalition, they would have superior strength. I have no idea why a hegemonic force under GOONS leadership would not have formed given that they would have emerged from the war as clearly the most powerful alliance in the game, with a multitude of small alliances content to do their bidding. Is there some reason to think this would not be the case?

Edited August 1, 2009 by Proko

[Mathias]

I joined CN a month after the UJW. Just missed it.

[Brotherington]

@Proko: How could a GOONS hegemony have lasted 2 years? They made enemies for the hell of it, and enjoyed pushing people around in a far more open and shameless fashion than the NPO hegemony. Yes, it would arguably have been even more unpleasant and oppressive than the one we just smashed, but I also don't think it would prioritise self preservation above having fun.

[Monster]

mpol lives on.

He should post more.

[Simon De Montfort]

The worst part of the war was \m/ disbanding *tear*

The tears of those who feast on tears are the sweetest.

I included the two quotes above to sum up my feeling on the death of \m/. I fought in the Legion and took great pleasure in smoking 3 \m/ nations.

[Master Hakai]

\m/ was the greatest alliance ever to exist in Cyber Nations.