A 4 minute mistake?

[Timeline]

I just see this as another NPO "look at us"

We could ask the countless number of nations who have signed peace terms with NPO but still attacked after the terms was signed.

[Penkala]

A NADC nation did it to me when I was in RAD, but he offered peace less than 30 seconds after he last attacked. It was clear he was just trying to get a shot in on me so NADC paid reps. 4 minutes may be legit, it's hard to tell. It only takes a minute or two to get on the OWF. Hard to say, really.

Would Rok be willing to forego war reparation collection in the amount of the damage done?

No offense, but it's really not your place to be negotiating this... it's between NPO and Ragnarok... leave it alone.

Edited July 22, 2009 by Penkala

[Maelstrom Vortex]

Just to clarify...

1) The time stamp you provided is after the incident, not before. So let's stop that one right there. Shinra obviously posted AFTER the attack and revelation of peace, not BEFORE. I would have hoped someone would actually follow the link and try READING, but I guess not.

2) Rok is not hard to find. If you want to speak to us about anything, you or your gov can contact us. We haven't been hiding, nor will we.

3) Mistakes are made. Just as we told a couple of Rok members NUKED at the end of IRON hostilities, "It happens in war. Let it go."

4) It is obvious to us that the enmity is mutual between the NPO and ShinRa. I am not interested in rehashing that in the OWF on some ham-handed posting designed it seems to try to embarrass Rok and ShinRa and continue trying the war in the arena of public opinion. If you have a true grievance, come see us. Otherwise...

IT. IS. OVER.

1. The images are not doctored.

2. The timestamps are accurate.

3. Shinra attacked me after peace, that is what I am upset about.. not the order of events. Peace offers obviously happen after wars are declared. The war was declared after the treaty was signed.

4. I am not a liar. Lieing is never profitable.. and gets one nowhere. Anyone who reads the docs will see that all the timestamps are in proper sequence and thus not doctored.

5. I'm not that good with image editing even if I wanted to chop/shop something.

Yes it is over, I'm just asking everyone to abide by their treaty.

Edited July 22, 2009 by Maelstrom Vortex

[Centurius]

1. The images are not doctored.

2. The timestamps are accurate.

3. Shinra attacked me after peace, that is what I am upset about.. not the order of events. Peace offers obviously happen after wars are declared. The war was declared after the treaty was signed.

4. I am not a liar. Lieing is never profitable.. and gets one nowhere. Anyone who reads the docs will see that all the timestamps are in proper sequence and thus not doctored.

5. I'm not that good with image editing even if I wanted to chop/shop something.

No one is saying you are a liar however people are only stating it could be and most likely is an accident.

[Matthew Conrad]

No one is saying you are a liar however people are only stating it could be and most likely is an accident.

Yes, this pretty much sums it up.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

No, the fact he took it public at all was irritating to me. But I understood where he was coming from and I was not going to say anything. Then Kilkenny made his erroneous allegations and it becomes a "bad show Rok" thread. THEN I spoke up.

Just so you know I don't hold Shinra's actions as a poor reflection on any other person or group but him. I wait to hear his explanation.

Edited July 22, 2009 by Maelstrom Vortex

[Maelstrom Vortex]

No one is saying you are a liar however people are only stating it could be and most likely is an accident.

I wish I had the same level of faith in people as you do. The behavior indicates a low probability of it being an accident, but I'm not omniscient so obviously I cannot say for sure.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

You know, next time I'm put on trial I'd actually like for someone to contact me and tell me that people are making judgments about my actions.

First off, I had been planning to make an attack upon Maelstrom Vortex for a few days before now and had been trying to get together a number of RoK nations to make a joint strike against him due to his attacks upon weaker Karma nations, ones he had a major advantage over due to his improvements and air force. I would have had to have ditched a lot of infra and land to get in range so I was somewhat reluctant to make an an attack if others were in range.

I can get screenshots of one or two posts from the RoK forums if you want proof.

On the day I attacked I simply checked MV's nation before I checked my inbox (I was at war with two other nations at the time) and found that he was now within striking range presumably due to aid he had received a few days beforehand, I declared war and made a number of attacks and then checked my inbox to find a message stating that the war was over. I made a peace offer and sending an apology for my attack after the war's end and moved on to the forums.

I’ll admit that there is no love lost between the NPO or I, but I take a dim view of this as Vortex and those stating that this was a simple cheap shot made various estimations and judgments without actually coming to me and asking for the whole truth in this matter. All it would have taken is a simple PM, so I regard this as being little more than a publicity stunt.

Finally, to everyone who has been defending my position on this matter up till now, I thank you. And I owe all of you one.

Could you give a brief explanation of how events transpired that let you to opening an attack on me and then discovering there was peace declared in less than 4 minutes whilst you were in the process of destroying some of my rebuilding work? Not skeptical, just curious. It's the fastest peace I've ever seen achieved.

Would you be willing to compensate me for the estimated 500K damage done to my state? Under normal conditions, I'd tech trade and disregard it, but I've no ability to do that currently.

Nevermind, you already said you would be willing to repay in an earlier post. *face palms at missing things* . Alright, I'm willing to let this go then as mostly what I'm worried about is preservation and rebuilding.

Also, the reason I brought this public is I like for negotiations over these kind of incidents to be done in a public light. It ensures that all parties own their statements and promises. I never judged you. I was skeptical. I was hoping you would respond to clear your name. You did.

Edited July 22, 2009 by Maelstrom Vortex

[Prime minister Johns]

You know, next time I'm put on trial I'd actually like for someone to contact me and tell me that people are making judgments about my actions.

First off, I had been planning to make an attack upon Maelstrom Vortex for a few days before now and had been trying to get together a number of RoK nations to make a joint strike against him due to his attacks upon weaker Karma nations, ones he had a major advantage over due to his improvements and air force. I would have had to have ditched a lot of infra and land to get in range so I was somewhat reluctant to make an an attack if others were in range.

I can get screenshots of one or two posts from the RoK forums if you want proof.

On the day I attacked I simply checked MV's nation before I checked my inbox (I was at war with two other nations at the time) and found that he was now within striking range presumably due to aid he had received a few days beforehand, I declared war and made a number of attacks and then checked my inbox to find a message stating that the war was over. I made a peace offer and sending an apology for my attack after the war's end and moved on to the forums.

I’ll admit that there is no love lost between the NPO or I, but I take a dim view of this as Vortex and those stating that this was a simple cheap shot made various estimations and judgments without actually coming to me and asking for the whole truth in this matter. All it would have taken is a simple PM, so I regard this as being little more than a publicity stunt.

Finally, to everyone who has been defending my position on this matter up till now, I thank you. And I owe all of you one.

I believe you... thousands wouldn't , but I do.

[kingzog]

This reminds me: I was once attacked after peace was declared. Where are my reps? Waaaaaaaa!

One of the more pathetic things I've had the misfortune to read in a long time.

Kudos.

[von Metternich]

This is still going on?

In my honest opinion, I don't see why NPO was whining in the first place. We were nuked by IRON after they left the war and we didn't do any of this.

[Haflinger]

This is still going on?

In my honest opinion, I don't see why NPO was whining in the first place. We were nuked by IRON after they left the war and we didn't do any of this.

For the last time, this isn't NPO, this is a single member.

Who incidentally asked for an apology, got it, and accepted it. If that's your definition of whining...

[Merrie Melodies]

Just to clarify...

1) The time stamp you provided is after the incident, not before. So let's stop that one right there. Shinra obviously posted AFTER the attack and revelation of peace, not BEFORE. I would have hoped someone would actually follow the link and try READING, but I guess not.

2) Rok is not hard to find. If you want to speak to us about anything, you or your gov can contact us. We haven't been hiding, nor will we.

3) Mistakes are made. Just as we told a couple of Rok members NUKED at the end of IRON hostilities, "It happens in war. Let it go."

4) It is obvious to us that the enmity is mutual between the NPO and ShinRa. I am not interested in rehashing that in the OWF on some ham-handed posting designed it seems to try to embarrass Rok and ShinRa and continue trying the war in the arena of public opinion. If you have a true grievance, come see us. Otherwise...

IT. IS. OVER.

Wasn't a more open forums one of the battle cry's of the Karma war? Are we back to the "Private Channels FTW" BS again?

The only reason Ive ever seen the private channels crap used was to try and save face.

Simply put that attack is BS

[Drostan]

Wasn't a more open forums one of the battle cry's of the Karma war? Are we back to the "Private Channels FTW" BS again?

The only reason Ive ever seen the private channels crap used was to try and save face.

Simply put that attack is BS

Battle Cry of Karma or no, some things just make more sense to deal with on a private alliance to alliance level first. It's different if you are unaligned, then you have to use the OWF as you have no political leverage. But I think it can be considered disrespectful to purposely blow what may very well be an accident out of proportion on the OWF instead of first finding out what happened from the people who actually KNOW. It just depends what your motives are. If you want to resolve a situation, then often approaching the leadership of the alliance involved is your best bet, if instead you want to inflame a situation... your best bet is to sling mud on the OWF first. Realistically there is a time for both options. But if I were an alliance leader and someone had an issue but chose to escalate it to a matter of public opinion before giving me a chance to explain, I would be insulted, as I think, would many.

[hawk11]

Hey now, this thread looks interesting.