A 4 minute mistake?

[Glen MoP]

While probably not worthy of a thread itself, it is nice to see things out in public instead of everything being "private channels for the win." I'd like to see more topics posted and more openness in CN politics instead of less posts and more private back-room deals. That's one of the (originally claimed) Karma ideals I liked.

[King DrunkWino]

Ya know, in the sake of fairness, it could very well be that this Vortex fellow never had any experience with the parting shot technique before now.

Yes, it happens every war. Sometimes it's intentional and sometimes it's an honest mistake. Unfortunately, it's usually hard to tell which in most cases. I'll also echo some in this thread, when it's intentional it's a pretty low thing to do.

[Matthew Conrad]

I did that where? And that is relevant to my point how?

Anyway, while I know this could go on for couple of pages about nothing really, Ill just preemptively stop it from my part. I did said everything I had, hate to repeat my self.

You were trying to disprove someone's comments by calling them bias whereas you're the exact same way.

[Branimir]

You were trying to disprove someone's comments by calling them bias whereas you're the exact same way.

Just providing other points of perspective, from other angles.

That is, you know, legitimate thing to do in a exchange of judgments.

[potato]

In biased eyes negatively towards his AA, mr. MoFA of mk.

In more objective eyes, one could see it as just a guy venting a bit, which is understandable. Maybe not deserving of a thread, but many threads here are more pointless so there you go, its CN.

I'm not sure you can claim unbiased eyes yourself, my dear friend. However, past beefs aside, I REALLY didn't mean it as a jab on your comrad or your alliance. Contrary to popular belief, I'm not a rabid anti-NPO fanatic.

Edited July 21, 2009 by potato

[Branimir]

I REALLY didn't mean it as a jab on your comrad or your alliance.

I am sure.

[potato]

I am sure.

Heh. What is it about "lalala" and your ears?

[Balkan Banania]

All this time, NPO and others have been saying that RoK/ShinRa are cheap. Now, this is no longer so. Either the NPO player who made this horribly misread it or tried to fake something.

I personally don’t see what’s wrong to make it public, no matter the alliances involved, so I see no reason why people try to make this a flame fest.

Maelstrom Vortex only said that the war declaration, the attacks and the peace offering were performed in the time span of four minutes. It is obvious that someone would be puzzled at the speed that the attacker understood the fault and offered peace. Also out of curiosity, I would expect that a mass PMing took place in order to inform RoK members, so just a simple question with no bad intentions or anything, did a mass PMing took place and if yes when?

Of course nobody is obligated to answer the question, after all these things happen when a war ends or during cease fires.

"lalalala"

[Branimir]

Heh. What is it about "lalala" and your ears?

What is about your post and this thread subject and do they have any connection?

Ill take a hint and note that nothing much about the subject at hand is left to be said.

[potato]

What is about your post and this thread subject and do they have any connection?

Ill take a hint and note that nothing much about the subject at hand is left to be said.

My bad then. I misunderstood your agreement with me for sarcasm. Glad to see we're on the same page.

[Rampage3]

Did Maelstrom Vortex post what irritated you, on page 2?

No, the fact he took it public at all was irritating to me. But I understood where he was coming from and I was not going to say anything. Then Kilkenny made his erroneous allegations and it becomes a "bad show Rok" thread. THEN I spoke up.

The lesson should be that at some point, we must have respect and trust enough not to end up here, on the OWF, discussing what we could easily discuss face to face in private. Because even though he had a grievance, it got buried under crap and other people's intentions.

[Chickenzilla]

Something might be fishy in here, I'll give you that.

However, it happens every time and it could and would have been better if handled privately. During the noCB war, it took 2 days for my last NPO opponent to get off my back. 2 days in which he attacked me while my defense were depleted, I had offered him peace and send him a link to the OWF thread. It happens all the time: in fact, if I remember correctly, a whole lot of tech was added to our reps because one of our guys nuked BACK after the surrender. That's to say he was nuked first, nuked back and NPO added tech.

I don't mean this to be a jab at NPO or you but bringing this to the public really makes it look like a cheap shot at PR.

Good times, good times indeed.

[King DrunkWino]

No, the fact he took it public at all was irritating to me. But I understood where he was coming from and I was not going to say anything. Then Kilkenny made his erroneous allegations and it becomes a "bad show Rok" thread. THEN I spoke up.

The lesson should be that at some point, we must have respect and trust enough not to end up here, on the OWF, discussing what we could easily discuss face to face in private. Because even though he had a grievance, it got buried under crap and other people's intentions.

and that's where private channels comes from.

That said, though, there's even a way to get around the peanut gallery allegations. You could quite simply ignore them and handle the business at hand in the thread. Yes, I realize that's tough to do since the peanuts are rather loud, numerous, and it's a near guarantee that at least one will say something that makes your blood pressure raise and jaw clench. Then again, that's where the "ignore user" function can come in handy. I mean, let's face it, members of alliances probably have a good idea on folks that are either screaming for attention, a persistent pain in the rump roast to their alliance, or whatever.

Just something to consider.

[von Metternich]

What is fake here from Maelstrom Vortex, pray tell? Or are you just writing words randomly as you go?

He is obviously being upset at what happened and that is he has been attacked after the peace deal and after he started the process of complying with the terms. But as others have pointed out it happens. Actually there are some other cases I heard in #npowned of such actions but you have to live with it.

Did he let his enemy (ShinRa) know that he was preparing to meet the terms? Did he send ShinRa a PM saying "NPO has surrendered. Don't attack me. I'm decomming my tanks, etc."?

[Branimir]

Did he let his enemy (ShinRa) know that he was preparing to meet the terms? Did he send ShinRa a PM saying "NPO has surrendered. Don't attack me. I'm decomming my tanks, etc."?

Ehm, what? You really are just randomly typing down words as you go, lol.

I really don't know what to make of your posts, they lack any kind of logic or a valid point. They seem to be just words put together that could make a sentence, but the meaning of such randomness in the context of the debate is non existent.

Cant be bothered, overall the situation was addressed nicely thus far.

[Matthew Conrad]

Ehm, what? You really are just randomly typing down words as you go, lol.

I really don't know what to make of your posts, they lack any kind of logic or a valid point. They seem to be just words put together that could make a sentence, but the meaning of such randomness in the context of the debate is non existent.

Cant be bothered, overall the situation was addressed nicely thus far.

No... it's pretty clear in what he's trying to say. While it doesn't use punctuation well, the post is pretty easy to understand overall.

[Branimir]

No... it's pretty clear in what he's trying to say. While it doesn't use punctuation well, the post is pretty easy to understand overall.

Help me out then, what is his point?

And, btw., am not talking about punctuation,...

Edited July 21, 2009 by Branimir

[Matthew Conrad]

Help me out then, what is his point?

And, btw., am not talking about punctuation,...

He was asking if the OP had contacted Shinra first and told him about the surrender and to not attack him because the OP is following the peace terms (decommissioning tanks, military, etc.).

EDIT: Basically, he's trying to keep people from jumping to conclusions about malicious intent on the part of Shinra or Rok/Karma in the attack and to question if the OP took the necessary/best steps to address the situation instead of posting on the OWF first.

Edited July 21, 2009 by Matthew Conrad

[Branimir]

He was asking if the OP had contacted Shinra first and told him about the surrender and to not attack him because the OP is following the peace terms (decommissioning tanks, military, etc.).

Oh, so the point was did Maelstrom Vortex first contact this transgressor and asked him "wtf", before making this thread.

Well while I can not answer that question, I don't really understand the relevance of it in the context of thus far had debate as well as I dont know what would be gained by that, obviously the transgressor would say that he didn't know the peace was made but after all the attacks he instantly found out, etc.

Now about maliciousness or not, Maelstrom Vortex didn't really draw definite conclusions, being a very nice guy like that. He does say he will let the event it self screen shotted and presented, speak for it self. Until this point, we kind of all came to an agreement that this type of things happen and was it a malicious hit and run from the part of transgressor or not cant really be determent. Conclusions are up to individuals.

[Trinite]

I don't think we can blame MV for not preemptively PMing everyone in all 18 alliances just in case one wanted to DoW him at 3 in the morning and then declare peace 4 minutes later. We can blame him for taking it public, but the fact that the attacks took place has to fall on ShinRa, and the responsibility to let your nations know belongs to the alliance the person belongs to. I am pretty sure some Spartans let fly after peace was declared as well. Not everyone reads their PMs before attacking. Both sides just have to deal with it. Dealing with it here isn't really the best place. I'm sure an agreement as to how to deal with late hits can be arrived at much more effectively in private channels.

Whether or not ShinRa actually knew there was peace is a pointless debate unless someone has proof.

[DocOctane]

While probably not worthy of a thread itself, it is nice to see things out in public instead of everything being "private channels for the win." I'd like to see more topics posted and more openness in CN politics instead of less posts and more private back-room deals. That's one of the (originally claimed) Karma ideals I liked.

Everyone read this again and nod politely. OWF for the win. Screw IRC.

[Drostan]

Everyone read this again and nod politely. OWF for the win. Screw IRC.

Yes, why shouldn't we drag people's names through the mud instead of getting a direct answer and resolving our problem? Brilliant. Some things really are dealt with better in private. If private methods do not lead to adequate resolution, you can always come back to the OWF and make sure everyone sticks their nose in!

[mattski133]

Something might be fishy in here, I'll give you that.

However, it happens every time and it could and would have been better if handled privately. During the noCB war, it took 2 days for my last NPO opponent to get off my back. 2 days in which he attacked me while my defense were depleted, I had offered him peace and send him a link to the OWF thread. It happens all the time: in fact, if I remember correctly, a whole lot of tech was added to our reps because one of our guys nuked BACK after the surrender. That's to say he was nuked first, nuked back and NPO added tech.

I don't mean this to be a jab at NPO or you but bringing this to the public really makes it look like a cheap shot at PR.

This. Sure fire way to not get justice would be to circumvent the proper paths.

[von Metternich]

/me facepalms at the Branimir

[Kilkenny]

It happens all the time that people 1) get on, 2) declare their wars, 3) then check their PMs, and their military officers face palm. Of course that's not what happened here. I think kilkenny already solved that little mystery. Poorly played ShinRa.

Edit: Silly kilkenny. I've totally screwed up timestamps on the forums and timestamps in cn before

(Central Time Zone )). It seems he posted after he attacked, so scenario 1 is still in play.

Wait, they aren't in the same time zone?? The timestamp on the post I linked reads 1:13am, which is 1 1/2 hour before the attack if they are both on the same clock. I have not compared the two before, so if they are on different time zones then that is my mistake. I assumed they were. I wasn't posting to point at Rok but ShinRa...wasn't figuring it was a sanctioned attack, just someone's personal poor show.