Zombie Glaucon Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 If I'm update to date on my history, Legion asked us to not get involved. Probably the biggest mistake ODN ever made was to agree to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafael Nadal Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 (edited) Probably the biggest mistake ODN ever made was to agree to do so. No, the biggest mistake they ever made was canceling on you at the time and in the manner they did. Edited July 14, 2009 by Rafael Nadal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Stalin Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Brilliant political move! Best of luck to the ODN in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 I don't view PIAT's as overriding MDoAP's; not all treaties are equal. I consider MDoAP's to inherently be superior in nature, such that I asked ODN to come in against those whom I considered our MDoAP to be superior against. You'll notice that Vanguard doesn't have many PIAT's, and I try to avoid them whenever possible. Then, you wanted them to attack UPN? That's the only PIAT partner of ODN to attack Vanguard in that war. Also, anybody attacking Universalis was inherently at war with Vanguard, so really this nitpicking about we didn't attack Vanguard, only Uni is bs, and specific declarations like those are one of the things I detest about politics here. Your pledge to defend Universalis aside (I have the exact opposite view, and intensely dislike "an attack on X is an attack on Y" phrasings in treaties), this move was the idea of one of your treaty partners, who you are still allied with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Style #386 Posted July 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Haf, Rafa... you lads are getting a touch off-topic, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacosby Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 (edited) If you are a member of The Legion I ask you to stay respectful and leave the troll food at home...stop feeding them. Edited July 14, 2009 by jacosby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joracy Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 If you are a member of The Legion I ask you to stay respectful and leave the troll food at home...stop feeding them. This is a good plan for ODNer's also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafael Nadal Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Haf, Rafa... you lads are getting a touch off-topic, eh? Of course not. >_> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaiker Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 what happens when two alliances notorious for leaving there allies hanging cancel treaties? nothing lol it was a useless treaty anyways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacosby Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 This is a good plan for ODNer's also. I still <3 you Joracy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincongrad Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 -snip- Without arguing any of the justification or lack thereof of that particular war, I happen to agree with most of your post. I'm saying that in an equivalent situation to the one now, where ODN did not align directly with Legion foreign policy, Legion did not cancel on ODN. In respect to your section about hard choices, I should have clarified. I meant, as you said, that they are making hard choices now so that they don't have to make them later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franciscus Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 I want the old Franciscus back. This new one doesn't seem right at all. She's just a query away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincongrad Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 what happens when two alliances notorious for leaving there allies hanging cancel treaties? nothing lol it was a useless treaty anyways Who are you? Are you a recent reroll from GWI? Must be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafael Nadal Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Without arguing any of the justification or lack thereof of that particular war, I happen to agree with most of your post. I'm saying that in an equivalent situation to the one now, where ODN did not align directly with Legion foreign policy, Legion did not cancel on ODN.In respect to your section about hard choices, I should have clarified. I meant, as you said, that they are making hard choices now so that they don't have to make them later. Then it's a good thing ODN canceled now, to avoid recurring issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 Of course not. >_> Nothing like old warhorses getting together to reminisce over old times, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincongrad Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 Then it's a good thing ODN canceled now, to avoid recurring issues. I agree. Hence why I said I respected them for it and was not angry. However I would much rather they hadn't cancelled at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soccerbum Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 Lincon, you and I both know that relations were hardly what they were, and being on two totally opposite fences wasn't helping either. Also, this thread went from the typical 'this is sad, blah blah blah' to 'fightfightfight' rather quickly, which is slightly amusing. Please, continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincongrad Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 (edited) Lincon, you and I both know that relations were hardly what they were, and being on two totally opposite fences wasn't helping either. Course. That's why we initiated the discourse in the first place, to try and get that sorted out and see if we could salvage some of that. I just don't think it had to be this way. I think with time and effort we could have gotten it back up to par. Edited July 15, 2009 by Lincongrad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkerNinja Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 (edited) So how do you feel about being used as a convenient scapegoat, along with your "clique?" I'm not sure what you're referring to. From the vague nature of your post, I can apply your scapegoat/clique comment to one of three things. 1. My final directive as Secretary General was to authorize my use as a scape goat in the WotC-stupidity, for which I honestly bore a disproportionately large share of the blame. As I've stated on these forums and elsewhere (more clearly and privately), I let what was fundamentally an alliance matter affect me personally. The fact that four others voted with me on that matter is of little significance. At the time, the ODN was in the habit of following my lead. We could've gone either way depending on my mood. I decided to be butthurt at Grub and Sponge and made the wrong choice. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. If they have finally decided to obey me in this matter, more power to them. I asked for ordered it. 2. Am I being scapegoated for this cancellation? It would be amusing if I were, but that is not to say that I oppose it. In reality, they had drifted a long way apart... something that started after Great War III and was concluded with Purplegate. What has come after has been, largely, a facade maintained by sentimental persons. As I stated earlier, I voted to elect a senator whose platform was to cancel this over a year and a half ago. I even argued in favor of those sentiments extensively. So if I'm being scapegoated for this, I fail to see how, but I'll accept the credit. I would like to share the credit with my one-time Imperialism Adviser, Zessa. Congrats, Zess, we did it. Finally 3. If by my "clique" you are referring to TOP as a former hegemonist alliance, then that just doesn't make sense. TOP doesn't have any relations with Legion whatsoever, and we certainly didn't ask ODN to cancel on Legion. I'll ask whoever is scapegoating my "clique" to stop doing so. You are free, however, to continue referring to TOP as my clique. This will give Paradoxians everywhere amusement. The Paradox belongs to no man but Johan. EDIT: removed two paragraphs to make this less wall-of-text-y. EDIT 2: I actually like NSO, but Tom Litler's rage-posts are cracking me up. Edited July 15, 2009 by WalkerNinja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soccerbum Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 I believe they mean the cult of Walker, not the clique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincongrad Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 I believe they mean the cult of Walker, not the clique. You sure? I always thought CN = Mean Girls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soccerbum Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 Eh. It depends on who you talk to. ODN loved Walker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkerNinja Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 (edited) I believe they mean the cult of Walker, not the clique. I wasn't aware that such a thing existed. Is that who keeps sending bound and gagged virgins to my front door step? It was flattering the first few times, but it's getting a bit troublesome having to bring them into the house before I head out to the Grand Chancellor's office. I need to give them a key to my beach condo... Edited July 15, 2009 by WalkerNinja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joracy Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 Course. That's why we initiated the discourse in the first place, to try and get that sorted out and see if we could salvage some of that. I just don't think it had to be this way. I think with time and effort we could have gotten it back up to par. We didn't want to see things turn this way either. I was, I kid you not about to ask you guys to do the exact same thing when Jacob asked me. This wasn't the result that I think anybody wanted, but it was the result that we ended up arriving at. It's a shame, but the way things worked out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soccerbum Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 I wasn't aware that such a thing existed. Is that who keeps sending bound and gagged virgins to my front door step? It was flattering the first few times, but it's getting a bit troublesome having to bring them into the house before I head out to the Grand Chancellor's office.I need to give them a key to my beach condo... If you give me the key, I will be sure to send it along to whoever may be sending the bound and gagged virgins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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