An Announcement from the Orange Defense Network

[Cataduanes]

Logic has no place in ODN a break down in relations is always the result of the other party or a convenient excuse plucked out of the air desperately to excuse their cowardice. ODN doesn't have friends they are a parasite that clutches to any source of survival until it is no longer practical. In this situation I'd guess that being allied to Legion is no longer desirable because they have found a better food source to leach from. I wonder who that could possibly be

hehe you speak of cowardice , so the recent event IRON famously pulled at the beginning of this war was bravery? . And furthermore please pray tell all of us your tales of bravery in the many desperate wars IRON has fought in (not a curbstomp in sight right? ).....for i have a history of fighting in wars and i will wager that i have had to face harder odds more times than you ever have

[Kryievla]

Cataduanes, one person does not an alliance make. You have followed through on your word and commitments. You have put your money where your mouth is. Your mates have yet to distinguish themselves in that fashion.

IRON did not have to fight that war. They fought and they bled and they paid the highest reps in history yet. I hardly call that cowardice.

[Dujek Onearm]

Logic has no place in ODN a break down in relations is always the result of the other party or a convenient excuse plucked out of the air desperately to excuse their cowardice. ODN doesn't have friends they are a parasite that clutches to any source of survival until it is no longer practical. In this situation I'd guess that being allied to Legion is no longer desirable because they have found a better food source to leach from. I wonder who that could possibly be

Reading your post I get the feeling that ODN is not the only place where logic has no place.

Edited July 16, 2009 by Dujek

[Style #386]

Logic has no place in ODN a break down in relations is always the result of the other party or a convenient excuse plucked out of the air desperately to excuse their cowardice. ODN doesn't have friends they are a parasite that clutches to any source of survival until it is no longer practical. In this situation I'd guess that being allied to Legion is no longer desirable because they have found a better food source to leach from. I wonder who that could possibly be

These long years of leaching from Legion have tired us. I'm sure you'd understand what it's like, as you continue to watch NPO plummit in the standings.

That being said, it's hilarious hearing ill-informed people such as yourself attempting to spin this situation. Just go home and stop embarassing yourself.

[Pingu]

The ODN is happy to perform a valuable public service in providing free therapy to the troll community. Members of that community should feel free to continue their passionate and illogical diatribes if it helps them manage their anger in healthy rather than destructive ways. Serving in this way is, of course, its own reward - we ask for no contributions from the broader international community. However, should any who appreciate our work in this important field wish to send gifts of herring or cake, I am confident they will be well received.

[Angrator]

Did you even read my post, or are you just here to bash us? You even quoted the exact part that complete refutes your ending remark, and yet you still feel it necessary to post such rubbish.

I'm sorry. Did you ever read my response to your post? How does my pointing out your rubbish bring my post to your level? At least I am not afraid to state my opinion rather than trying to backhandedly cast blame elsewhere. Me thinks you doth protest to much. "ME?!?! WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!? I NEVER SAID THE LEGION WAS RESPONSIBLE" (wink wink nudge nudge).

From recent talks, the current government of Legion appears to not be on this policy. Over the past year, I've watched ORRPLE fall apart. Maybe you tried to keep ORRPLE as #1. I do not know. I tried to keep ORRPLE as something as well. We failed. Under current circumstances, we can no longer keep ORRPLE active. ORRPLE has not been above all, so whether or not it was your policy is irrelevant. You can say what you want, but it is clear that the relationship has not been the same for a very long time.

Okay. So whose fault is it that the relationship failed? I'm not talking about any recent events because the relationship between the Legion and the ODN died a very long time ago. Tell me about how the ODN signed pacts with GOONS and let the Legion fall.

I doubt that ORRPLE is seen as a blunder for their foreign affairs, nor do I see signing ORRPLE having any effect on how purplegate came around. You can doubt us all you wish, I don't care. But please don't make yourself out to be some sort of expert on the situation.

It wasn't a blunder? The Legion placed the highest priority on ORRPLE and look where it got them. I certainly wouldn't call falling from the top spot and getting crushed into near oblivion while their allies stand on the sidelines a diplomatic breakthrough.

The ODN bails on the Legion, then bails on GOONS, then bails on the NPO. Legion fell out of sanction, GOONS was disbanded and only very recently reformed, and the NPO is fighting what looks to be an eternal war. You aren't calling a treaty with the ODN a blunder? How cute.

[Denial]

Logic has no place in ODN a break down in relations is always the result of the other party or a convenient excuse plucked out of the air desperately to excuse their cowardice. ODN doesn't have friends they are a parasite that clutches to any source of survival until it is no longer practical. In this situation I'd guess that being allied to Legion is no longer desirable because they have found a better food source to leach from. I wonder who that could possibly be

Vanguard - and I imagine RnR, The International and UPN - beg to differ.

[Angrator]

Vanguard - and I imagine RnR, The International and UPN - beg to differ.

C'mon! Really? Don't insult their intelligence. If the ODN wasn't on the orange team, how many alliances do you think they would have?

[Pingu]

The ODN bails on the Legion, then bails on GOONS, then bails on the NPO. Legion fell out of sanction, GOONS was disbanded and only very recently reformed, and the NPO is fighting what looks to be an eternal war. You aren't calling a treaty with the ODN a blunder?

When did NPO have a treaty with ODN? Or even cordial relations? I must have missed that important part of our history, although I was asleep for a while, so it's entirely possible.

[Sir Sci]

Although this is sad, I understand why ODN did this. Regardless of your person alignment, you must be able to understand simple logic. Legion is going one way. ODN does not want to go that way. Therefore, ODN has broken this tie to Legion in order to prevent being forced in going a direction they do not want to go.

I personally support GATO's treaty partner, ODN. I mean, I've got nothing against Legion, it's just that ODN is awesome. Detractors and trolls can just go ahead and ignore me, because I'm sure they'll have something to say about my statement.

Vanguard - and I imagine RnR, The International and UPN - beg to differ.

And GATO.

Edited July 16, 2009 by Sir Sci

[Style #386]

Vanguard - and I imagine RnR, The International and UPN - beg to differ.

That's what you think.

You're next, Revanche.

[shilo]

Logic has no place in ODN a break down in relations is always the result of the other party or a convenient excuse plucked out of the air desperately to excuse their cowardice. ODN doesn't have friends they are a parasite that clutches to any source of survival until it is no longer practical. In this situation I'd guess that being allied to Legion is no longer desirable because they have found a better food source to leach from. I wonder who that could possibly be

In all fairness, but you don't want to say that ODN dropped Legion now because ODN wasn't able to profit from the treaty anymore? Since GW3, ODN has been the stronger and better connected alliance, no offense meant to my purple friends.

Whatever you say about ODN, the ORRPLE treaty wasn't kept alive because it was profitable for ODN, it stood there because of people willing to ignore the fact that strategically, it may not have been the most sound thing, because that simply didn't matter if you truly understood and lived the ORRPLE spirit.

C'mon! Really? Don't insult their intelligence. If the ODN wasn't on the orange team, how many alliances do you think they would have?

I think he didn't make a hypothetical statement about a situation in which ODN might not have friends, but stated that in the existing situation there are none. At least one friend disagreed.

[Cataduanes]

Cataduanes, one person does not an alliance make. You have followed through on your word and commitments. You have put your money where your mouth is. Your mates have yet to distinguish themselves in that fashion.

Point taken

When did NPO have a treaty with ODN? Or even cordial relations? I must have missed that important part of our history, although I was asleep for a while, so it's entirely possible.

Seems that oath to Moldavi was more binding then i remember

Although this is sad, I understand why ODN did this. Regardless of your person alignment, you must be able to understand simple logic. Legion is going one way. ODN does not want to go that way. Therefore, ODN has broken this tie to Legion in order to prevent being forced in going a direction they do not want to go.

I personally support GATO's treaty partner, ODN. I mean, I've got nothing against Legion, it's just that ODN is awesome. Detractors and trolls can just go ahead and ignore me, because I'm sure they'll have something to say about my statement.

And GATO.

Thanks Comrade

Edited July 16, 2009 by Cataduanes

[Sir Sci]

No prob Cata. We you.

Also, I'm pretty sure that Citrus Campaign vets would be rolling in their graves if NPO and ODN were ever close.

[Angrator]

When did NPO have a treaty with ODN? Or even cordial relations? I must have missed that important part of our history, although I was asleep for a while, so it's entirely possible.

A treaty? Who said a treaty? You have followed whatever the dominant forces have wanted you to do. Perhaps it was a crude shortcut to say the NPO but it is essentially the same. Who attacked GOONS? Oh yeah the ODN was involved in ~. Who then attacked BLUE and others? Oh right! The ODN was part of it too.

Do you notice the theme? How many times have you been on the winning side? Seems funny how many times it happens that even though just prior to the wars you seemed to be such good friends. Did you betray them before or after you gave them a huggle?

[Pingu]

A treaty? Who said a treaty?

Uh, you did.

[Angrator]

Uh, you did.

Please read the post that you quoted but failed to read and then respond one more time.

[HeinousOne]

What is it about Frostbite that you do not like? Standing up for allies through thick and thin? Yeah, cant say it would make for a good place for you guys to prove yourselves to the world. It would basically be like jumping straight into the deep end of the pool while trying to learn to swim.

Was I wrong about you kicking back or even responding Arsenal? You took quite a shot at Frostbite.

[Pingu]

Please read the post that you quoted but failed to read and then respond one more time.

Oh, I read it. I thought it was simply more venting, which I understand can be therapeutic.

Look, I really, truly understand that it can be satisfying, perhaps even psychologically necessary, to impose a simplistic narrative on a reality that is too complex and multi-faceted to readily comprehend. I don't begrudge you that at all. But I don't think it would be very helpful to you or anyone else to play along with your fantasy.

[Denial]

C'mon! Really? Don't insult their intelligence. If the ODN wasn't on the orange team, how many alliances do you think they would have?

I can't speak for RnR or The International, but the Vanguard/ODN treaty would exist regardless of what Spheres our alliances inhabited.

[Korlus]

I was told about this just as it was posted and was afraid that I had to be out the next day and so couldn't post immediately.

For those few who are interested in what I might have to say, I'm honestly not surprised that it happened. What managed to surprise me is that it took this long to happen.

However, that doesn't mean that seeing it happen doesn't make me sad - of course, it does. There were many people behind this treaty, and even more behind the relationship originally behind it, and I count myself one of those "responsible" for a large portion of it. I suppose, if I was to try and rationalise it, I would say that the reason that it failed was because people weren't trying to uphold it. When it was signed, the ODN and The Legion were moving closer to one another and people on both sides were trying their hardest to make it work - almost regardless of their other treaties.

Now I'm not here to argue about whether or not that was a good political move - people have fun insulting The Legion (as it was) and the ODN (in general, apparently) for their political prowess all of the time. What I do want to say is that it was fun and nice and, in a way, its existence justified their existence. It being there gave the two alliances things to do, people to focus on, and a political outlook far different to anything that would have been around before hand. Over time, those people who originally worked on it drifted apart, whether because of moving to other alliances, or whatever else and people flew the flag of "ORRPLE" (or "ORPLE" if you were a Penguin) began to continue flying it, for what I can see, not because it was "fun" and "nice", but because it had always been done, and it looked like the right thing to do. The spirit of friendship, even the spirit of love was still there, but a lot of the original spirit of the relationship had been lost over time. As you can see at some points in this thread, the love (in a lot of cases) is still there, even now, but love alone does not make for a good treaty. It's a wonderful basis for one, but there needs to be mutual interaction, respect, and, preferably, desire for that mutual interaction and respect to keep a relationship, as was symbolised by this treaty alive.

From what little attention I pay to politics today, it seems that more and more treaties are becoming simply what they state they are - Mutual Defence Pacts or Financial Aid Pacts or... Whatever else it is that they say, and that the feeling and interaction behind them is desired more for political gain than for fun, and even love - which don't get me wrong, in the current political climate is not necessarily a bad thing. In fact, it seems to be more and more what is expected.

However, ORRPLE was never intended to be just a treaty, and as the two signatories allowed it to become just that... Well, it died. I viewed it as all but dead while I was in the ODN, and as an outsider, I could see no hope of things getting better. I suppose it's a feeble thing to cling to something like this as I have done for so long, but it was ever my hope that it would get better. I may not be a member of either alliance, but it still felt like my child, and I really wanted to see it grow again. Who knows? Maybe the death of the treaty will cause those two parties to talk again? Maybe they'll realise that they're not actually dissimilar, and that the love is still there.

I suppose I can but hope.

[Laelie]

I can't say anything after that. Thanks, Butternut.

[Angrator]

Oh, I read it. I thought it was simply more venting, which I understand can be therapeutic.

Look, I really, truly understand that it can be satisfying, perhaps even psychologically necessary, to impose a simplistic narrative on a reality that is too complex and multi-faceted to readily comprehend. I don't begrudge you that at all. But I don't think it would be very helpful to you or anyone else to play along with your fantasy.

Did you hear that everyone? The ODN never betrayed you. They were just philosophizing in their intellectual world. We are really just slaves in a cave. The ODN makes motions but all we can see are the shadows. Oh if only we could see their deep and "multi-faceted" reality! Their actions, while looking crude and self serving are really so so much more. It's a pity really. I wanted for once an explanation for their seemingly random and flippant foreign policy. Please philosopher. Enlighten me. Why did you betray your allies so many times?

[MCRABT]

These long years of leaching from Legion have tired us. I'm sure you'd understand what it's like, as you continue to watch NPO plummit in the standings.

That being said, it's hilarious hearing ill-informed people such as yourself attempting to spin this situation. Just go home and stop embarassing yourself.

Ill informed, how ironic when but 3 months ago you were coming to me for advice. Get your head out of your own over inflated ego and have a good long look at reality, maybe if you open your eyes wide enough you will see what a pitiful heap of cowards you associate yourself with. As for spinning I don't need to do any of that ODN embarrasses itself enough every time a war comes around. I just relish the opportunity to remind you how worthless you really are.

The ODN is happy to perform a valuable public service in providing free therapy to the troll community. Members of that community should feel free to continue their passionate and illogical diatribes if it helps them manage their anger in healthy rather than destructive ways. Serving in this way is, of course, its own reward - we ask for no contributions from the broader international community. However, should any who appreciate our work in this important field wish to send gifts of herring or cake, I am confident they will be well received.

I'm glad to hear you are good for something other than incompetence.

[DaJoW]

The ODN is happy to perform a valuable public service in providing free therapy to the troll community. Members of that community should feel free to continue their passionate and illogical diatribes if it helps them manage their anger in healthy rather than destructive ways. Serving in this way is, of course, its own reward - we ask for no contributions from the broader international community. However, should any who appreciate our work in this important field wish to send gifts of herring or cake, I am confident they will be well received.

I always bring a special barrel of herring just in case I run into you

Shame to see this, though it's only natural I guess. I may not have been close to anyone in the Legion but I've seen the dedication ODNers held to Orrple, and to see such a prolific and ancient treaty die is always sad. Especially for us oldies who can't name any of the newer ones

The way ODN threads are treated nowadays is also a shame. I know a lot of people might not be very big fans of you guys but know I'll always have a soft spot for you.

Edited July 16, 2009 by DaJoW