GRAN responce to Pyramid Accusations

[JackSkellington]

this is interesting considering we talked to londo and he swore this was not a witch hunt to settle an old score.

londo you mind explaining this ?

I believe it was more of him pointing out the hypocrisy in your posts.

[Haflinger]

Yawoo, you really don't know anything about coldie do you?

[Yawoo]

Yawoo, you really don't know anything about coldie do you?

Nope hence my thing about her (his?) gender.

[Deadshot]

So we are allowed to call people racial slurs now with no repercussions? Sweet.

Good luck to all involved parties.

[Beauty]

This has gone way too far via Racism. Really... Everyone knows their differences between races, You cant deny that.

The fact is you cant act prejudice or Racist, Which are extremely different terms often confused.

Prejudice - Judging someone and/or predicting their actions because of their color.

Racism - Using your authority to put down a race, IE: *Jimmy kicks Angela because shes mexican/hispanic (Whatever your lingo is)*

The point is, Racism and Prejudice is so out of style, It only can hurt you.

Its also bad to not talk about it, Do you know some things go from hell to peace with a talk? Ive seen many cases where you bring up race and its like a deadly word. Just stop its not like your going to be smited because your talking race, It can actually prove usefull.

Edited May 24, 2009 by Rotavele

[Imperator G4G]

This thread isn't really flattering for anyone.

[rabonnobar]

Honestly all the accusations back and forth are tiring, but I will respond to those (Argent member, too lazy to quote) saying they should be killed out of mercy:

GRAN is not a new alliance. It has been plagued recently with drama (whether their fault or not I don't pretend to know) it seems but it had a very nice and honorable existence in times past, in fact it was very close, brothers, one would say, to a little ole alliance called DefCon, which just happened to merge into one of your mutual defense partners, TOOL.

All this recent drama, to be perfectly honest, I don't know the details of, but I wish the best of luck to all involved, GRAN in particular of course. It seems like an utter mess on all accounts.

[Sileath]

I hope both sides can move successfully past this.

Not me. War is the only way to settle this!

[janax]

I didn't realize that former glory, greatness, mediocreness, whateverness meant they get free passes when they've done nothing but face-palm inducing things for the last 3 months.

As soon as they stop generating the amount of FAIL they've been exuding, I will stop mentioning it being a mercy killing.

[Dan Marino]

what really makes me laugh, is how biased you guys are, yall do not look at both sides, you only read what you want to read

[rabonnobar]

I didn't realize that former glory, greatness, mediocreness, whateverness meant they get free passes when they've done nothing but face-palm inducing things for the last 3 months.

As soon as they stop generating the amount of FAIL they've been exuding, I will stop mentioning it being a mercy killing.

If past actions are irrelevant then the whole of Karma may as well pack up and go home. I realize that doesn't make sense, which is my point. Either way, to speak so nonchalantly about murdering an entire alliance and it being a merciful action is just pathetic.

[Sir Keshav IV]

lolGRAN

*Is angry at the time wasted reading this thread.*

[Leftbehind]

what really makes me laugh, is how biased you guys are, yall do not look at both sides, you only read what you want to read

Well its our view or your view. If you don't want us not to judge you guys then don't post.

[Tulafaras]

do you honestly think you are doing yourselve any favors by posting this?

[PrideAssassin]

Recently GRAN has been accused of masterminding the destruction of Pyramid , i find this particular accusation rather funny considering all the comments that followed were aimed at insulting our intelligence, so at this point all the wonderful CN members have me confused am I a genius or an idiot. Well the truth is actually not as dramatic as BM made it out to be and I am fully aware that to those alliances that hate us (you know who you are ) this will not be enough to convince them simply because they see what they want to see.

So lets begin, first I will tell all the wonderful viewers what actually happened and provide evidence as we go along, so lets begin first and foremost.

Our first contact with Pyramid came when Ironman and Dan Marino both showed up in our channel we started to chat about yellow and many other things, during those talks we agreed to work together an set up trade circles in yellow to help both of us out, after a 1-2 weeks of idle chat, Ironman and Dan Marino propose a treaty to GRAN, While we were internally voting on the treaty we were notified that BM had completely vetoed the treaty. He claims that the reason for not signing was that Alaric had made racist comments about him in the past.

You will notice the part were he refers to Alaric as “spick” which is a racist comment used commonly on Hispanics. (Alaric is in fact Hispanic as many alliances leaders can testify). He also alledges that Alaric was racist to him a while ago, this happened close to a week ago and BM has yet to produce any evidence at ALL that Alaric made a racial comment directed at him.

That was the comment that made its way back to GRAN headquarters , after reading that we decided it was best to cut relations with Pyramid all together since we don’t want to be associated with that kind of people, So we visit Pyramid irc and inform Dan Marino that we are cutting relations with Pyramid, at that moment Dan Marino informs me that he had been thinking of leaving Pyramid for a while and if I could protect them, since I saw no reason to punish Dan Marino for the racist comments made by BM I decided to give it to him.

conversation between Dan Marino and BM in which Dan flat out denied that we had encouraged him to leave Pyramid.

Now in his latest thread BM has thrown around a lot of accusations, saying that we masterminded the destruction of Pyramid , I find this funny considering most the “evidence “ you posted had been altered.

So lets examine it shall we,

Exhibit A

BM altered the logs he posted as evidence to conveniently hide any incriminating evidence.

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd283/k...ndoracoldie.jpg

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd283/k...doracoldie2.jpg

Exhibit B

BM claims that GRAN had offered the PIAT first , however we have this evidence to prove otherwise.

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd283/k...aric/BMlogs.jpg

Evidence that Pyramid offered it first

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd283/k...atyoffering.jpg

You will also notice on that above screen that BM refused to answerer alarics question as to why he referred to him as a Spick.

Exhibit C

Alaric informs Pyramid that relations are going to be cut

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd283/k...ic/danslogs.jpg

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd283/k...c/danslogs1.jpg

So lets recap, BM blames us for pyramid disbanding yet as Pharaoh he did not even know his government had proposed a treaty to GRAN, then he goes ahead and calls my second in command a “spick” meanwhile his only defense is that Alaric insulted him in the past yet he has not posted any evidence whatsoever of any wrongdoings on alarics part, even though it has been well over a week since this incident occurred and in the massive log dump he also neglected to show any evidence of any racial slurs used by Alaric.

But what do you do if your accusing someone without any evidence and your name is BM, well that’s easy you just fabricate evidence which is exactly what he did, those logs he dumped were completely altered to remove and wrong doings on his part and he even edited out the part were he referred to Alaric as a spick, coldielox with whom these logs were with has already confirmed that.

I will end this statement with a little message to Bm,

You really need to grow up and realize that your alliance failed because you were inactive and didn’t know what your government was doing half the time. You OOC attacked a member of GRAN, and were too lazy to continue with Pyramid after the government members that were actually running the alliance left, and yes I say lazy because MCXA lost a huge chunk gov members and they didn’t go crying or disbanded.

I expeted much better out of you and franckly I am very dissapointed in your actions and false accusations. Now if you have any evidence at all of alaric Calling you a "N" then I would encourage you to show them to me so a course of action can be taken?

Off topic and OOC, but you are confusing racism with bigotry and general ignorance. Racism is a serious charge and not to be thrown about lightly. Bigotry is merely the product of ethnocentric people without much exposure to the world outside of their own. While bigotry CAN lead to racism, the two are not the same.

[Franz Ferdinand]

Please modify your screenshots to remove the host masks within them.

[bojje]

Indeed it does.

EDIT: Speaking of which, I notice one OOC accusation both sides are guilty of is abuse of the English language.

hehe, yeah I agree, that is why I am staying neutral in this conflict. Just because PY is our neighbors doesn't mean that we will follow them through a poorly handled diplomatic conflict. Good luck to both parties, but please stop using the word "racism" in such a random manor.

[SpacingOutMan]

Off topic and OOC, but you are confusing racism with bigotry and general ignorance. Racism is a serious charge and not to be thrown about lightly. Bigotry is merely the product of ethnocentric people without much exposure to the world outside of their own. While bigotry CAN lead to racism, the two are not the same.

[notsarcasm]Oh. My. God. FINALLY someone understands it. Thank you sir...[/notsarcasm]

Seriously, to charge someone with racism is a very serious accusation and you have no merit for it whatsoever. That and the fact that your [OP] post was an entire waste of time to read... why did you even bother? I'm surprised that Yellow isn't floundering amidst all this stupidity and drama.

[JWConner]

I find it truly disturbing how people have chosen to believe one side's accusations based on IRC logs but refute the other sides because all they have are IRC logs. Just mind-blowing.

As I said prior, VA stands by her allies in GRAN until we are convinced otherwise. As we were allies once with Pyramid in her previous incarnation, we never had the chance to get to know this version, although we have had many dealings with BmTH in the past. That said, BmTH has shown no evidence, other than IRC logs, to back his claims up.

The only claims I agree with in this thread are that all parties involved are egregiously attacking the English language.

So, again, if anyone wishes to go through diplomatic channels, you may find myself or other VA gov @ www.veritas-aequitas.org or #cn-va.

[SpacingOutMan]

I find it truly disturbing how people have chosen to believe one side's accusations based on IRC logs but refute the other sides because all they have are IRC logs. Just mind-blowing.

Both sides are idiots. Happy?

The only claims I agree with in this thread are that all parties involved are egregiously attacking the English language.

There is a quote in my signature made by Megabyte explaining the butchery of the English language in one thread. Read the OP of that thread... it makes this look like a Nobel Peace Prize nominee.

[outworld]

[notsarcasm]Oh. My. God. FINALLY someone understands it. Thank you sir...[/notsarcasm]

Seriously, to charge someone with racism is a very serious accusation and you have no merit for it whatsoever. That and the fact that your [OP] post was an entire waste of time to read... why did you even bother? I'm surprised that Yellow isn't floundering amidst all this stupidity and drama.

We never actually accused them of racism, we simply decided to cut off diplomatic communications with them because we were offended by their use of words, Remember this all started when BM log dumped and accused us of having something to do with Pyramids merging into Athens.

I also find it funny that we have shown screenshots were coldie herself say's that the loggs BM posted were alterred and people still are believing his logs as evidence, seems like you all just see what you want to see.

[PrideAssassin]

I wasn't commenting on the nature of the incident, just the heavy word that was tossed out there so casually.

I've personally never heard of either of you.

Best of luck though, and I hope you get it sorted.

[St Jimmy]

Well, it would seem this has turned into a "NO U" battle. Given that Pyramid is dead and gone, did this necessitate another thread? I mean, one source of bad PR is enough, at least confine it to one discussion. This isn't doing anyone involved a favor.

I hope this sorts itself out peacefully. Best of luck to all the involved parties.

[Yawoo]

I find it truly disturbing how people have chosen to believe one side's accusations based on IRC logs but refute the other sides because all they have are IRC logs. Just mind-blowing.

No one in either thread is saying "IRC logs good. GRAN bad. RAWR!" Most people are refuting GRAN's crap because they have a history of pulling shenanigans that Pyramid doesn't. Until GRAN stops acting like asshats the side opposed to them is going to automatically get +1 in the believable side of the chalkboard.

As I said prior, VA stands by her allies in GRAN until we are convinced otherwise. As we were allies once with Pyramid in her previous incarnation, we never had the chance to get to know this version, although we have had many dealings with BmTH in the past. That said, BmTH has shown no evidence, other than IRC logs, to back his claims up.

Wrong. BmTH offers direct screenshots of two different web pages. The web pages in his thread are actually evidence, unlike in this thread. I suggest you go back and re-read that OP.

[Bob]

Mercy kill GRAN. I'll help.