Question to Poison Clan

[JBone]

I am very interested in seeing how you guys work this out. I should thank you for adding another level of interesting to the world situation.

Will the rest of the Karma nations attacking TPF sign peace knowing that TPF plans to keep fighting PC or plans to attack PC later. Quite a story.

God I hope so.

EDIT: Let's face it, PC is one of Karmas red headed stepchildren, not in it for righting past wrongs, just opportunistic bandwagoners who exploited a situation for personal gain.

Edited May 24, 2009 by JBone

[Mogar]

God I hope so.

EDIT: Let's face it, PC is one of Karmas red headed stepchildren, not in it for righting past wrongs, just opportunistic bandwagoners who exploited a situation for personal gain.

Hence why I don't think they're going to last long in this new world, honor is actually going to be something relatively important to most of the Karma alliances who will be in a position of power, those who are dishonorable will get their "karma".

[AlmightyGrub]

I am watching to see how quickly this is resolved. I am extremely interested all of a sudden.

[JBone]

Hence why I don't think they're going to last long in this new world, honor is actually going to be something relatively important to most of the Karma alliances who will be in a position of power, those who are dishonorable will get their "karma".

It still remains to be seen my friend, but with forward thinkers like this in PC, it seems like a foregone conclusion.

mogar, go back to your cave now please. If you do, ill let you have the next almighty "first post" in the next major alliance announcement because I know just how much that means to you.

Mhawk, you've already proven yourself to be an incapable leader, so to save us all time, please just crawl back to your bomb shelter. If you indeed have a problem with it, get your other nations outta peace mode. Otherwise, just go.

magicninja, this issue doesnt involve you nor do you have any reason to cry about it. Now go be a good boy and get GATO into another war like you did last time, im sure you have experience.

As for this "question", there is nothing more then the fact we can, and therefore, we will. This was nothing more then a raid, not an attack. If that were the case, you would see us use more then just conventional attacks.

Where have I heard that before ?

[Ejayrazz]

I am very interested in seeing how you guys work this out. I should thank you for adding another level of interesting to the world situation.

Will the rest of the Karma nations attacking TPF sign peace knowing that TPF plans to keep fighting PC or plans to attack PC later. Quite a story.

Look my friend, it was an incredibly opportunistic and rather cold hearted maneuver but I would hardly agree to it being cowardly. TPF and PC have been at odds for quite a long time, much longer then the length of this war so far. Part of that threat upon PC is the rather large series of protectorates TPF has. It seems to me like a calculated attempt to try and get some of the TPF protectorates to think that they are not very well protected by TPF.

You call it cowardly but I will call it calculated.

Hegemony calculates. We will have to agree to disagree on this subject mate, this opportunistic nonsense has desecrated an alliance merely for self-gain, it'll be remembered. It is just my opinion, as they have theirs. We will see which one last longer eventually in CN.

Edited May 24, 2009 by Ejayrazz

[HeinousOne]

Hegemony calculates. We will have to agree to disagree on this subject mate, this opportunistic nonsense has desecrated an alliance merely for self-gain, it'll be remembered. It is just my opinion, as they have theirs. We will see which one last longer eventually in CN.

Yes, the Hegemony calculates. Surely you wouldn't state that they hold the copyright for calculating though. There was plenty of calculating going on in the opposing camp before it all shaped up into a war.

You are right though, with the recent declarations just made in this thread. There is not much else to talk about.

[Ejayrazz]

Yes, the Hegemony calculates. Surely you wouldn't state that they hold the copyright for calculating though.

I love you more and more.

[Bernkastel]

We didn't force anyone to disband, we didn't threaten, infact we told zoom we would not allow you to be attacked... all that would seem to disprove your first point, which would also disprove the other point you make that we didn't help or try to protect DC... The rest of your post is too confusing to address.

Just a few comments regarding DefCon.

DefCon disbanded because

- you threatened Cowen and myself to perma-ZI for actions that resulted from TPF's lack of communication with DefCon. It never really happened, but the threat was enough to cause the destruction of a past life and the resulting alliance hopping (for example, TPF warned Zenith about me and I was told I was being investigated...oOoOo) from all of TPF's intimidation.

- TPF was, for all intents and purposes, going to use us as another meat shield. We came fairly close to outright canceling the MDoAP after the whole DE incident. I mentioned it in a passing conversation to both ZoomX3 and Cowen.

- you caused the government to the collapse. 2 Triumvirs left due to being implicated in actions resulting from TPF's failure to communicate.

I really, truly do miss DefCon. While I may have had a huge falling out with some people. I still value what friendship remains, whether it be a tiny speck of gold or a great big treasure chest of gold.

That's all I'm going to say on this and on TPF. You know where to find me.

/me bows out.

Edited May 24, 2009 by Balsamic Vinegar

[Haflinger]

Yes, we know that you guys are trying to protect them. That is why you are trying to demonize PC for their actions. It is the only way you have left to defend not only California but ALL of your protectorates. That is because you have failed in your foreign policy by signing so many treaties.

You need to be very, very careful with your claims. You should re-examine your statements, the fourth sentence explains why the third sentence is wrong.

I'd also like to take this chance to remind you that according to Poison Clan, their raid on California is a separate attack, unrelated to the present conflict.

[mhawk]

Just a few comments regarding DefCon.

DefCon disbanded because

- you threatened Cowen and myself to perma-ZI for actions that resulted from TPF's lack of communication with DefCon. It never really happened, but the threat was enough to cause the destruction of a past life and the resulting alliance hopping (for example, TPF warned Zenith about me and I was told I was being investigated...oOoOo) from all of TPF's intimidation.

- TPF was, for all intents and purposes, going to use us as another meat shield. We came fairly close to outright canceling the MDoAP after the whole DE incident. I mentioned it in a passing conversation to both ZoomX3 and Cowen.

- you caused the government to the collapse. 2 Triumvirs left due to being implicated in actions resulting from TPF's failure to communicate.

I really, truly do miss DefCon. While I may have had a huge falling out with some people. I still value what friendship remains, whether it be a tiny speck of gold or a great big treasure chest of gold.

That's all I'm going to say on this and on TPF. You know where to find me.

/me bows out.

You say I threatened you and cowen with perma zi, yet later you said we never did? I never threatened perma zi on anyone, infact we never even attacked you until you attacked us. You say we were going to use you as a meatshield? There wasn't even a war. We didn't talk to you about "a war" because there was no war.

You really can't blame us for any of that. If you didn't think we communicated enough, you should have canceled. You didn't need to disband over that, sheesh.

[HeinousOne]

You need to be very, very careful with your claims. You should re-examine your statements, the fourth sentence explains why the third sentence is wrong.

I'd also like to take this chance to remind you that according to Poison Clan, their raid on California is a separate attack, unrelated to the present conflict.

So you think that making alot of noise on the OWF is a proper defense? We definately disagree on that.

There has been more recent statements by PC about all this, enough so that there really is no reason to continue the debate on why such happened.

[bigwoody]

I am watching to see how quickly this is resolved. I am extremely interested all of a sudden.

Hello Grub how are you, I am fine.

[astronaut jones]

God I hope so.

EDIT: Let's face it, PC is one of Karmas red headed stepchildren, not in it for righting past wrongs, just opportunistic bandwagoners who exploited a situation for personal gain.

You really think it's opportunism? You more than most should know that's as much a lie as me saying I love TPF and wish it no harm, is.

[TwistedRebelDB47]

God I hope so.

EDIT: Let's face it, PC is one of Karmas red headed stepchildren, not in it for righting past wrongs, just opportunistic bandwagoners who exploited a situation for personal gain.

Not in it for righting past wrongs? I thought if anyone knew our history with TPF, you would know what "wrongs" we wanted to "right." Several others know we were ready to do it regardless of the current war.

This raid, while it seems unlikely, is not something we did to spite TPF. Sure its hard to believe, but that wasn't the reason why I approved it. We did it because California stated in 50% of their bios that they were no longer protected by TPF. An alliance who's been around for a few months and protected for ages all of a sudden begins writing that they were protected by TPF is incredibly misleading. This wasn't an isolated bio or two. This included their leader and everyone else who seemed to be in charge. I say seemed because there's no information on their leadership from the initial protection OR the Wiki (which also doesn't mention any TPF protection).

Honorable, dishonorable. Its all subjective to what an individual believes. We have our morals and rules we abide by, and we don't break them. We walk into every war knowing there's no end until our allies are out. We treat every raid as "respectfully" as it can be (let's not turn this into an argument about that). I analyzed the current situation, saw the prevalence of the bio messages, and made the call that California had decided "not to active the ODP" because they "were a protectorate of TPF."

I don't think its anything but fair for both sides to understand the mistakes they made, peace, and move on. California has an old friend of mine in Deathdread. If we wanted to spite TPF, we would hit someone far more involved in politics. This was just us finding the most relevant and up to date information (straight from the source) saying they were NOT protected. We weren't going to pass it up.

Also I think its amusing TPF is saying they would rather this be a DoW than a raid, just so they can try and extend the war at the expense of their protectorate eating extended damage. If that's the case, talk to me, California, and we'll discuss a DoW and immediate white peace. We have no intentions of taking out our rage on TPF against y'all.

[mhawk]

We have our morals and rules we abide by, and we don't break them. We walk into every war knowing there's no end until our allies are out. We treat every raid as "respectfully" as it can be (let's not turn this into an argument about that). I analyzed the current situation, saw the prevalence of the bio messages, and made the call that California had decided "not to active the ODP" because they "were a protectorate of TPF."

I don't think its anything but fair for both sides to understand the mistakes they made, peace, and move on. California has an old friend of mine in Deathdread. If we wanted to spite TPF, we would hit someone far more involved in politics. This was just us finding the most relevant and up to date information (straight from the source) saying they were NOT protected. We weren't going to pass it up.

Then acknowledging the mistake, lets work out the reps. Just as it would be in a mistaken raid.

[astronaut jones]

But how we move from a to b, it can't be up to me, because you don't know who I was before you. Basically, to see a change in me, I'd be losing, so I just ignore you, yeah... ooooh, but you're on my mind, my mind, my mind, my mind, my mind, ooooh, but maybe in time, in time, in time, I'll tell you I'm a little bit, a little bit, a little bit in love with you..

<3

[mhawk]

But how we move from a to b, it can't be up to me, because you don't know who I was before you. Basically, to see a change in me, I'd be losing, so I just ignore you, yeah... ooooh, but you're on my mind, my mind, my mind, my mind, my mind, ooooh, but maybe in time, in time, in time, I'll tell you I'm a little bit, a little bit, a little bit in love with you..

<3

Your spaceship needs to check the water filters.

[Haflinger]

Also I think its amusing TPF is saying they would rather this be a DoW than a raid, just so they can try and extend the war at the expense of their protectorate eating extended damage.

This is not what is going on. The desire is for California to get reparations for a mistaken raid, as your charter requires.

It's really simple.

[gantanX]

This thread is like a court of Law..

too many lawyers..

[SyndicatedINC]

It's not that they are different from a 1 man alliance its just they still have the Q frame of mind that the world is held in Order and that rule of law still holds true.

Now the rule of actuality holds true. No matter whether you sign a protectorate treaty saying you protect someone, they actually have to be protected. Their word is no longer enough.

Sooner or later reality has to be faced.

Yeah damn pesky rule of law, holding justice as the highest priority, can't have that now can we

Welcome to the world of tomorrow:

[mhawk]

Yeah damn pesky rule of law, holding justice as the highest priority, can't have that now can we

Welcome to the world of tomorrow:

I think thats the world of today actually

[HeinousOne]

Yeah damn pesky rule of law, holding justice as the highest priority, can't have that now can we

Welcome to the world of tomorrow:

So if I go and make an alliance and immediately sign multiple protectorates, no one should raid them because they are "protected" right? Your idea of rule of law is faulty. Your idea is is actually rule of "I said so".

I suppose some folks get really excited over what kind of wrapping paper is wrapped around the gifts come christmas time.

[fant0m]

Lets wait to judge tpf's protection until this is over.

We realise that we have no direct ability for military recourse.....at this time.

/me hopes they aren't just empty threats.

Also, wow, I can't believe this thread is still going. >_<

[Haflinger]

So if I go and make an alliance and immediately sign multiple protectorates, no one should raid them because they are "protected" right?

That's what Poison Clan's charter says. Whether this is reasonable or not is quite a separate debate from what Poison Clan policy is. If you want to argue about what reasonable raiding rules are, maybe you should take it to a different thread; this one is just about Poison Clan and a single protectorate.

[mhawk]

Just an update this is all being worked out as we speak. We apologize to California we didnt spot the mistake in some of their bio's before this took place. We'll do our best to make everything right. Thanks to those that helped.