Official Announcement from The Order of the Paradox

[BikeCat]

You're fighting on the opposite side of one of the largest wars in CN history.. Yeah, great friends!

Just be real people. Don't make excuses or try to act morally superior.

[erikz]

o/ to our pwOrange friends over @ TOP!

[shahenshah]

Just be real people. Don't make excuses or try to act morally superior.

Thank you for being frank about all the charade you guys went through the whole past year.

Regarding being the enemies...TOP are our old time allies, Some of you are not aware of the history between IRON and TOP. and yes..ppl have super serious issues with MHA and Gre.....the hatred is mind blowing...

One time while sparring with MOTU, Matt Miller accidentally lost his left testicle. You might be familiar with it to this very day by its technical term: Jupiter.

...and regarding MHA...it has something to do with some confusing poetry that was being PMd all around to us , Work is being done on a counter-poem! Your time is at end MHA...huzzah!

Karma is very diverse, its simple as that.

Anyway, I'm done over and out.

Edited May 22, 2009 by shahenshah

[Il Principe]

Oh no, IRON will distribute the full works of Paula Nancy Millston Jennings to our nations.

I surrender, please, have mercy on my poor citizens...

[AirMe]

Ah and here i was thinking these reps intention was rebuilding and not punishment.

Right, making a comparison to reps that have been paid in the past to the rumored reps that are being offered now reeks of punishment. It wasn't me that trotted out the REPS ARE UNFAIR rhetoric in defense of an alliance, that was BnT. But on a related note to your post, until you have been through what I have, don't you trot your higher than thou attitude out in front of me.

IRON made their bed by the company they kept. When Karma comes around and gives them a nip in the $@! it's expected.

As I said with Valhalla, I challenge IRON to make me eat my words and prove me wrong when this is all over. I will gladly eat my words with a side of humility to boot.

Edited May 22, 2009 by AirMe

[AirMe]

EDIT: Sarcasm meter is broken.

Edited May 22, 2009 by AirMe

[avernite]

Did you use this kind of logic and reasoning when NPO rolled GATO or Legion for issues that were well over a year old? No you stood by and let them happen....even participated.

I think you may be wrong here, we didn't participate.

Plus he kind of seemed to be joking...?

[AirMe]

I think you may be wrong here, we didn't participate.

Plus he kind of seemed to be joking...?

It's early, my sarcasm meter is not at full capacity yet and the royal nanny hasn't shown up for work to watch the children. Remind me to have her exectued.

[SpiderJerusalem]

First of all, congratulations to TOP. I have not been a supporter of you at all times, as some of you might have noticed. But this treaty cancellation radically increased my respect for you.

You're completely missing the point. RIA has never accepted rep payments before. We've still had to pay reps during wars we've lost. We aren't fighting against the idea of reps. We're fighting against extortion. MK's reps from the NoCB war equated to 9.9 slots per member in order to pay off. The IRON reps on the table translate to 3.3 slots per member. That's 1/3 the size of MK's reps when adjusted for size, ignoring the effects of inflation completely. Per member, your reps aren't huge. They are pretty average. You could pay them in a month.

With logic like that, someone might accuse you of witchcraft

The truth of the matter is, Delta and AirMe are right. The terms offered are not harsh. Hell, if you think of it, they are pretty lenient compared to what you've been giving out yourselves.

I don't think that IRON shall be punished, but they do not deserve to get white peace either.

NPO on the other hand...

[Sir Keshav IV]

That was very fast, interesting decision TOP.

[Haflinger]

It wasn't me that trotted out the REPS ARE UNFAIR rhetoric in defense of my alliance, that was BnT.

BnT is not a member of IRON.

Also, I don't think he was arguing unfairness. He was arguing about what IRON, an alliance with 127 Manhattan Projects, 57 Weapons Research Complexes, and currently 561 nukes is likely to accept. That's not the same thing.

[AirMe]

BnT is not a member of IRON.

Also, I don't think he was arguing unfairness. He was arguing about what IRON, an alliance with 127 Manhattan Projects, 57 Weapons Research Complexes, and currently 561 nukes is likely to accept. That's not the same thing.

Too appease you I will go back and edit the word MY to the word AN.

Edited May 22, 2009 by AirMe

[ugly guy]

Hey CrazyCanuck. Do me a favor and dig up the old discussion threads about TOP joing the WUT and post them in TOP's forum, just so I can tell Saber and Bob "I f*ing told you so!"

Oh the memories!

Edited May 22, 2009 by ugly guy

[shahenshah]

First of all, congratulations to TOP. I have not been a supporter of you at all times, as some of you might have noticed. But this treaty cancellation radically increased my respect for you.

With logic like that, someone might accuse you of witchcraft

The truth of the matter is, Delta and AirMe are right. The terms offered are not harsh. Hell, if you think of it, they are pretty lenient compared to what you've been giving out yourselves.

I don't think that IRON shall be punished, but they do not deserve to get white peace either.

NPO on the other hand...

Go on, compare the terms IRON's been giving around and what they are being demanded of. Its very humble of BnT to not have posted things that were additionally demanded apart from all this.

[Archon]

Hey, on the bright side, I'm finally glad to see IRON and company admitting they were party to extortion. I'm also glad to see them so scared of facing it themselves, despite their massive member count (compared to others who had to pay similar fees) that should provide the ability to pay them off with relative ease. Good times.

I bring this up for a reason though, as it was something that occurred to me randomly - should the NPO be forced to pay large reparations, would TOP render their assistance in paying? Or is that something you'd rather not get into right now?

[janax]

I bring this up for a reason though, as it was something that occurred to me randomly - should the NPO be forced to pay large reparations, would TOP render their assistance in paying? Or is that something you'd rather not get into right now?

I can name a few alliances that would consider helping out.

[SpiderJerusalem]

Go on, compare the terms IRON's been giving around and what they are being demanded of. Its very humble of BnT to not have posted things that were additionally demanded apart from all this.

IRON have stood by Pacifica in nearly every major crime they have done against several alliances on our fine planet. If you had spoken up against tyrrany only once, you might have actually stopped it from happening. But no, you stood there silently and watched when nations burned and when (OOC) players were driven away from this game(/OOC). No, your crimes may not have been of the same magnitude as Pacifica, but you did nothing to prevent the tyrrany they stood for.

tl;dr:

"Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men."

[defroster]

IRON have stood by Pacifica in nearly every major crime they have done against several alliances on our fine planet. If you had spoken up against tyrrany only once, you might have actually stopped it from happening. But no, you stood there silently and watched when nations burned and when (OOC) players were driven away from this game(/OOC). No, your crimes may not have been of the same magnitude as Pacifica, but you did nothing to prevent the tyrrany they stood for.

tl;dr:

"Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men."

Man this is just like when TOP cancelled their treaty with NPO. JUST LIKE IT.

/wait, what? Oh, its just unrelated trolling in their topic, ok.

[crazy canuck]

Hey CrazyCanuck. Do me a favor and dig up the old discussion threads about TOP joing the WUT and post them in TOP's forum, just so I can tell Saber and Bob "I f*ing told you so!"

Oh the memories!

UG, no offence but I am sure that if we dig through the old archives long enough we could find, with hindsight, instances where even I was right about something. Also, are you seriously suggesting that I should go through all those old threads again. That would definitely be cruel and unusual punishment.

hope all is well with you!

[Bodvar Jarl]

Hey CrazyCanuck. Do me a favor and dig up the old discussion threads about TOP joing the WUT and post them in TOP's forum, just so I can tell Saber and Bob "I f*ing told you so!"

Oh the memories!

You mean the threads where I actually agreed with you?

[ponken]

Hey CrazyCanuck. Do me a favor and dig up the old discussion threads about TOP joing the WUT and post them in TOP's forum, just so I can tell Saber and Bob "I f*ing told you so!"

IIRC my answers to your concerns back then was "If they do that, we'll drop them"

[panfilo]

o/ paradoxia

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

<snip>

Seeing how asking you guys nicely to stop derailing this thread didn't work, I'm gonna say it again, but bluntly this time.

GTFO and take your argument somewhere else.

[SpiderJerusalem]

Seeing how asking you guys nicely to stop derailing this thread didn't work, I'm gonna say it again, but bluntly this time.

GTFO and take your argument somewhere else.

I am glad you didn't notice my first (and only) post about respecting you guys at all

Edited May 23, 2009 by SpiderJerusalem

[Rafael Nadal]

Forgive my ignorance in all of this but IRON although "decimated" is in a very good position in this war. Its up against two alliances that want white peace (which are strategically larger and more important alliances - which have taken more "collateral" damage) and the hangers on, FARK, RoK and a few other ankle biters that are looking for stupid reps from an alliance which lacks the inclination or will to pay.

Whilst Im sure MHA and Gramlins have achieved their objectives in regards to IRON I wonder how long they will be willing to be part of a "coalition" of alliances that are attacking IRON. If for example MHA and Gramlins decided that they no longer wanted to be a part of extortionate reparation bids by alliances that whilst attacking IRON are not taking comparitive damage or indeed abusing thier position as minor (in the grand scheme of things) alliances to get reps whilst the big boys take the damage.

As I have been stating from the outset of this war; its going to be a steep learning curve for some alliances that think that they can demand reparations from any alliance that has the ability and resolve to maintain a protracted nuclear conflict with little damage to their membership numbers. Id hope that more learnered alliances would be wise enough to know that IRON is no pushover; it has the nations with cash, MP's and WRC's, it has the membership that will resist absurd terms.

The question is (and here comes the one liner ) do FARK, RoK and associated ankle biters have the same resolve and cash flow to carry on?

Besides FAN, I can't think of an alliance in a worse position for a long stretch of time that has stuck it out. I don't count Vox in this, since their position was actually beneficial to their weapons, which was their words and information. Also, you can question Rok, since they've never been in such a position, but I can guarantee you that Vanguard specifically has the money and resources to help them out, should they need it, and if you want to question our resolve in backing up Rok, or any war for that matter, then you obviously don't know who makes up the core of Vanguard. Not to mention, Rok also has SF, which includes alliances like the aforementioned Fark.

Also, somebody posted deriding TOP about their commitment to OUT. That's laughable. Completely laughable. I'm not exactly a TOP supporter, far from it actually, but that claim is ridiculous. OUT is not the focus of Orange Alliances. It's just not, sorry if I'm spilling the beans. It's not the focus of TOP. It's not the focus of IRON. It's no longer (though I think they've shown more commitment in the past than anybody else) ODN's focus. It's not Vanguard's focus. Color spheres are not the dominant political clustering forces in this game, and until then, color spheres will take a back seat to inter-sphere relations. There is no inherent reason or benefit to having your color sphere be your closest friends, and other than perhaps working together on trade circles, there is little reason to leave a color sphere to join a friend/friends on other color spheres.

While I'm glad to see this treaty go, it's heavily muted by the fact you were so closely allied to them, and thus supported their actions for so long. Better late than never I guess.

Edited May 23, 2009 by Rafael Nadal