Serious Question to Surrendered Hegemony Alliances...

[Guffey]

Haven't surrendered yet, but i've definitely learned that respect for enemies, and the attitude you carry yourself and your alliance with makes things about 100 times better.

Even if you dislike or despise an alliance, treat them with respect whether you get it in return or not.

[KingSuck]

All of NPO's allies?

not all, a few though

also, check yo' inbox

[claphamsa]

You can fight a war and have absolutely no hard feelings - Cheers GR

+1 on this!

[KagetheSecond]

Don't mix Vodka with Redbull. You'll end up doing something stupid... Like taking on Umbrella.

you guys

[neneko]

Don't mix Vodka with Redbull. You'll end up doing something stupid... Like taking on Umbrella.

you guys

<3

I'm still sad I never got to fight any of you guys. valhalla kept me busy

[AbysmalPea]

Mistakes? What are those?

The mistake I learned from is not realizing how expensive nuclear war is.

Edited May 15, 2009 by AbysmalPea

[Uralica]

Haven't surrendered yet, but i've definitely learned that respect for enemies, and the attitude you carry yourself and your alliance with makes things about 100 times better.

Even if you dislike or despise an alliance, treat them with respect whether you get it in return or not.

Wise Guffey is wise.

I personally have learned the value of knowing how to use aid properly as a small-NS nation. Even the slightest misuse of said aid can come back and bite you in the derrière. Also, I've learned (not just in this war, but in my WotC experience in CCC as well) that sometimes, one-time war foes can sometimes make really good future allies

o/ Sparta/Brigade/DT/AO

[New Frontier]

you can't get casualties at 1k infra

oh and whole your true friends are/who the treaty e-lawyering scumbags are

Insert statement about irony, alliance choice, etcetera here.

[Buds The Man]

<3

I'm still sad I never got to fight any of you guys. valhalla kept me busy

And we were proud to do it and enjoyed every minute of it

Actually got to know some other alliances and found there was more common ground than I thought. Reps are a powerfull tool in the game but lack of reps may be even more powerfull. Well see one way or another.

[Timeline]

Hi all

Well I have found a new respect for TOOL, I never really got to know the alliance beforehand, but after our little battle I will try, the people I was fighting had shown nothing but respect, I like that.

how ever I guess the biggest thing I have learned, never take a knife to a gun fight.

[Rush Sykes]

All very interesting replies. I suppose that what I was hoping to see, from a personal standpoint, was someone in a major surrendered alliance to say something like "we learned that there is a true distates for PZI/EZI, and looking back, I really wish we had never engaged in such behavior"... or something like "keeping FAN perpetually at war was not the most brilliant of political moves"....Or that "we were kinda arrogant for trying to be part of a community that sought to tell other people who, and how, they could play this game and position themselves politically"

All of the lessons learned appear to be of a personal nature, respect being the most important of those. Perhaps increased activity for all alliances in the aftermath, this will be a fantastic thing. Politically, though, it seems little will change. I do hope I am wrong.

Edited May 16, 2009 by Rush Sykes

[Augustus Autumn]

All very interesting replies. I suppose that what I was hoping to see, from a personal standpoint, was someone in a major surrendered alliance to say something like "we learned that there is a true distates for PZI/EZI, and looking back, I really wish we had never engaged in such behavior"... or something like "keeping FAN perpetually at war was not the most brilliant of political moves"....Or that "we were kinda arrogant for trying to be part of a community that sought to tell other people who, and how, they could play this game and position themselves politically"

All of the lessons learned appear to be of a personal nature, respect being the most important of those. Perhaps increased activity for all alliances in the aftermath, this will be a fantastic thing. Politically, though, it seems little will change. I do hope I am wrong.

Speaking as a member of the Initiative, the only possible political lesson we might have learned would be "don't support your ally if they look like they're going to lose". I'm glad we happened to skip class that day.

[Rush Sykes]

Speaking as a member of the Initiative, the only possible political lesson we might have learned would be "don't support your ally if they look like they're going to lose". I'm glad we happened to skip class that day.

How about "Maybe we should counsel our allies in a stronger tone when they are the ones making mistakes."

This is a game played by humans to simulate humans. Goodness the imperfections can only be exponentially modified. But. from a strict FA view, does it make you a good ally to either....A) support your allies before their destruction, even when what they are doing is inherently wrong, and will eventually lead to their destruction.....or B ) take a strong stance WITH your allies and make it clear that what they are doing is indeed wrong. See, it is my view that if you accept an ally, you should also accept a friendship. It, at least to me, is a mandate of BEING a friend, to help your friends when they need help, play devils advocate when they are wrong. If your best friend goes on a killing spree, you may still love them as a friend, but odds are, you arent going to be inviting them to dinner until you are convinced they have changed.

Edited May 16, 2009 by Rush Sykes

[Alterego]

When your treaty is activated you can bail or do what you said you would do when you signed the treaty. If anyone has a problem with the content of a treaty they should say it when it has been unveiled to the world and not after a defeat resulting from the treaty being activated. We made no mistakes, we were true to our word.

Most alliances on the losing side came in because of treaty responsibilities so I think this covers most H alliances.

[Augustus Autumn]

How about "Maybe we should counsel our allies in a stronger tone when they are the ones making mistakes."

This is a game played by humans to simulate humans. Goodness the imperfections can only be exponentially modified. But. from a strict FA view, does it make you a good ally to either....A) support your allies before their destruction, even when what they are doing is inherently wrong, and will eventually lead to their destruction.....or B) take a strong stance WITH your allies and make it clear that what they are doing is indeed wrong. See, it is my view that if you accept an ally, you should also accept a friendship. It, at least to me, is a mandate of BEING a friend, to help your friends when they need help, play devils advocate when they are wrong. If your best friend goes on a killing spree, you may still love them as a friend, but odds are, you arent going to be inviting them to dinner until you are convinced they have changed.

And the other side of this coin is that when you sign an agreement with the word "mandatory" in it you stick by your word. As for offering insight and thought to allies, I do agree so long as it is done respectfully and through appropriate channels. As for friends going on killing sprees, no matter how many nuclear weapons Londo, Rsox, von Shizer and Bandnerd deploy they're still welcome at my house any time they want to come over for tea. Though allies may disagree on the courses chosen, at the end of the day and no matter what we still have each other's backs. THAT is a lesson that this war has taught, certainly.

[Haflinger]

All of the lessons learned appear to be of a personal nature, respect being the most important of those. Perhaps increased activity for all alliances in the aftermath, this will be a fantastic thing. Politically, though, it seems little will change. I do hope I am wrong.

You're not going to get answers from politicians about what happens behind closed doors in this thread.

[R3nowned]

Although TOOL was put in with Hegemony on the wiki, I don't consider myself hegemony so...

But I suppose the fact that you shouldn't enter a nuclear war without an SDI?

but seriously, I've seen things from alliances that I've never heard about that makes me pause and doubletake. There has been some fantastic things that have happened in this war. Friendships forged, and enemies made. That is the result of war.

[menwearpink135]

My war has lasted from 27/04/2009 till 03/05/2009, and I've lost around 45% of my total NS. Truth to be told I haven't rebuilt my military because I prefer to rebuild my infra and tech first.

I fought against menwearpink135 from GR who lost around 44% and against Quercus of OBR who entered the next day and lost around 33% of his total NS. Both were great opponents.

The white peace was basicly gained from the start, even without Citadel allies which obviously won't lend military aid when one of their members gets beaten but also from OBR and GR which said from the start they didn't had any "beef" with us.

Both learned us quite some things, especially from OBR who is around our the size of OG.

Sup brah?

Yeah you were by far my most difficult opponent. It was a fun fight. Much better than the other NPO nations I fought...

[Buds The Man]

I think if what you are looking for is an apology from hegemony alliances then I dont think you will get that, at least not here. Politically nothing will be the same once this war has completed change is inevitable it will be up to each individual alliance what direction they wish to handle their FA. PZI/EZI not all members of alliances ever supported this while there was a time for its use ,the game has moved on from that, and hence I think youll see those types of sentances go to the way side. I think your statement that very little will change politically is nieve for in order to survive in this game you must be willing to change and evolve regardless whether a war was involved or not.

[Nintenderek]

I'm not hegemony, but I learned that 8 months on PZI really does help prepare you for the biggest war in CN history.

[Qaianna]

All very interesting replies. I suppose that what I was hoping to see, from a personal standpoint, was someone in a major surrendered alliance to say something like "we learned that there is a true distates for PZI/EZI, and looking back, I really wish we had never engaged in such behavior"... or something like "keeping FAN perpetually at war was not the most brilliant of political moves"....Or that "we were kinda arrogant for trying to be part of a community that sought to tell other people who, and how, they could play this game and position themselves politically"

All of the lessons learned appear to be of a personal nature, respect being the most important of those. Perhaps increased activity for all alliances in the aftermath, this will be a fantastic thing. Politically, though, it seems little will change. I do hope I am wrong.

So you're suggesting that people learning respect is minor? Seriously, for any alliance, one important note is the idea of respect for one's enemies as well as one's allies. I know perceived lack of it has caused me pause in posting opinions at times out here. One lesson I learned pre-war was that my opinions can be rather quickly devalued and dismissed by others who dislike what I have under 'Alliance Affiliation', as opposed to merely being wrong or naive.

I'm serious about the whole 'increase respect worldwide is good' bit. Do you honestly think anyone could say those things you were hoping for and not get backlash? And I'm not talking about from their allies.

I understand your intent was not to cause trolling; however, the topic itself does lend itself to aiding that effort, whether you wished it or not. Sorry to have to say that.

On a side note ... as a member of a surrendered alliance, I'm learning a few things about how one can handle defeat (it's a new thing for us). As well as ideas on what to do next time war comes around and we end up giving terms.

[Rush Sykes]

So you're suggesting that people learning respect is minor? Seriously, for any alliance, one important note is the idea of respect for one's enemies as well as one's allies. I know perceived lack of it has caused me pause in posting opinions at times out here. One lesson I learned pre-war was that my opinions can be rather quickly devalued and dismissed by others who dislike what I have under 'Alliance Affiliation', as opposed to merely being wrong or naive.

I'm serious about the whole 'increase respect worldwide is good' bit. Do you honestly think anyone could say those things you were hoping for and not get backlash? And I'm not talking about from their allies.

I understand your intent was not to cause trolling; however, the topic itself does lend itself to aiding that effort, whether you wished it or not. Sorry to have to say that.

On a side note ... as a member of a surrendered alliance, I'm learning a few things about how one can handle defeat (it's a new thing for us). As well as ideas on what to do next time war comes around and we end up giving terms.

I would suggest that one should not NEED to "learn" respect. If one lacks respect from day 1, then one is doomed.

[Andre27]

I would suggest that one should not NEED to "learn" respect. If one lacks respect from day 1, then one is doomed.

I suppose that is something which can be argued back and forth. Giving respect and receiving respect is something which has to go both ways.

Sometimes, when respect is in short supply, much needed humility (which i've noticed lacking on both sides of the curtain) can be taught through war.

Overall, respect can be learned through humility. Humility can be learned through war.

[Duncan King]

Let me preface this by saying that I do not intend this thread to troll any alliances that have surrendered. This is a serious question that I would like to hear some answers to. Feel free to answer or not to answer.

The common thing with surrenders in this war, and with all wars in the past, is that the surrendering alliances always claim to have "learned from their past mistakes." My question is a simple one, what exactly is it that you feel your alliance has learned?

Don't jump in with a half formed battle plan 20 minutes before update.

Have at least a 500 million dollar warchest.

MPs are your friend.

Never bet against a Sicilian when death is on the line.

[Inquisitor Tolkien]

MPs are your friend.

Quoted for truthiness.