You forced us to disband!!

[Ravnica]

Here's a good question. When was the last time someone was "forced" to disband because of terms? Honestly, give me a date.

You're all arguing about the idea of it... I want to see some actual proof, not random dandelions from the field down the street.

Edit: Damn you word filters! I changed the word so it doesn't look like I'm cussing. D:

Edited May 13, 2009 by Pimpmobile

[Haflinger]

Here's a good question. When was the last time someone was "forced" to disband because of terms? Honestly, give me a date.

You're all arguing about the idea of it... I want to see some actual proof, not random dandelions from the field down the street.

Edit: Damn you word filters! I changed the word so it doesn't look like I'm cussing. D:

Norden Verein I believe.

Edit: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=31544 on August 15th, 2008 for the "when".

Edited May 13, 2009 by Haflinger

[Ravnica]

Almost a year ago. I don't see the chances of someone "giving unfair terms" in this war. Next one, maybe, but not this one. Stop whining about the theatrical aspect of the drama. All it boils down is two letters: q and q.

Edited May 13, 2009 by Pimpmobile

[kingzog]

Nordreich disbanded and reformed. Furthermore, Nordreich didn't disband in the midst of a war in an attempt to avoid unfavorable surrender terms.

For the millionth time, Nordreich never disbanded.

Anyway....

Sponge is correct. An alliance cannot be compelled to disband. However, others can make said alliance's life a living hell, driving most of its members away.

Also....yes, I believe NoV was the last alliance forced to disband courtesy of surrender terms. Not only that, they were instructed by Slayer to take down their forums lest former members be accused of organizing some kind of 'spy ring'. Gotta love those secret terms that help to avoid "other problems."

Anyway, actions such as the above can produce interesting results.

Compelling NoV to close its forums led to the creation of the Nordreich Community Forum which subsequently led to the resurrection of Nordreich itself.

Unintended consequences are a wonderful thing.

[Captain Flinders]

For the millionth time, Nordreich never disbanded.

Anyway....

Sponge is correct. An alliance cannot be compelled to disband. However, others can make said alliance's life a living hell, driving most of its members away.

Also....yes, I believe NoV was the last alliance forced to disband courtesy of surrender terms. Not only that, they were instructed by Slayer to take down their forums lest former members be accused of organizing some kind of 'spy ring'. Gotta love those secret terms that help to avoid "other problems."

Anyway, actions such as the above can produce interesting results.

Compelling NoV to close its forums led to the creation of the Nordreich Community Forum which subsequently led to the resurrection of Nordreich itself.

Unintended consequences are a wonderful thing.

The irony of this is so beautiful.

Edited May 13, 2009 by Captain Flinders

[RandomInterrupt]

For the millionth time, Nordreich never disbanded.

Compelling NoV to close its forums led to the creation of the Nordreich Community Forum which subsequently led to the resurrection of Nordreich itself.

Nordreich never died. Then it came back to life! Truly CN has a new messiah!

[Mixoux]

Honestly, it takes some resolve and committment to be able to say, "that's fine, I'll chill here in peace mode/ZI until you decide to give my alliance peace," as opposed to choosing to disband and allowing your members to move on without fear of attack.

Not that the former is bad, but it's just not for everyone.

[Dochartaigh]

For the millionth time, Nordreich never disbanded.

Anyway....

Sponge is correct. An alliance cannot be compelled to disband. However, others can make said alliance's life a living hell, driving most of its members away.

Also....yes, I believe NoV was the last alliance forced to disband courtesy of surrender terms. Not only that, they were instructed by Slayer to take down their forums lest former members be accused of organizing some kind of 'spy ring'. Gotta love those secret terms that help to avoid "other problems."

Anyway, actions such as the above can produce interesting results.

Compelling NoV to close its forums led to the creation of the Nordreich Community Forum which subsequently led to the resurrection of Nordreich itself.

Unintended consequences are a wonderful thing.

to my knowledge NoV was the only alliance to disband courtesy of surrender terms.

[kingzog]

Nordreich never died. Then it came back to life! Truly CN has a new messiah!

Nordreich never died. It was pining for the fjords!

[magicninja]

If no alliance can be forced to disband what was with all the sigs with alliance names on tombstones and "Never forget, Never Forgive"? What was that all about from the Karma side? Please I wanna know how when Sponge does it it's different to how Moo does it.

[bzelger]

If no alliance can be forced to disband what was with all the sigs with alliance names on tombstones and "Never forget, Never Forgive"? What was that all about from the Karma side? Please I wanna know how when Sponge does it it's different to how Moo does it.

You can cause an alliance to disband without forcing an alliance to disband.

[magicninja]

You can cause an alliance to disband without forcing an alliance to disband.

Riiigghhhttt but how is it different when Sponge and his allies did it to when Moo and their allies did it?

[bzelger]

Riiigghhhttt but how is it different when Sponge and his allies did it to when Moo and their allies did it?

Well, I think there's a difference between going in with the goal of trying to make an alliance disband, or giving serious terms so outrageous that many would prefer just to walk away and fighting an alliance that just doesn't have much will to exist (or whose leadership doesn't). As the actions by Sponge that led to disbandment of \m/ are asserted to have been a tactic to prolong a war that shouldn't have ended in disbandment, I think it's different.

In any case, I'll let him draw the distinctions he wants to; I have no investment here. I just wanted to be sure that you're not trying to wash the bloodstains off of other peoples' hands by piggybacking Sponge's argument.

[AlmightyGrub]

I know why the NAAC disbanded. IF my memory serves me correctly, we disbanded in principle two weeks before we went anywhere even seeking terms to surrender. To this day many people fail to understand why and I am perfectly comfortable with that. It was explained several times but some people just dont want to see the truth and accept it because it doesn't suit them.

As for a leadership decision to disband, I would suggest that in most cases it is. How else are decisions reached or implemented if the leadership does nothing about them? Maybe in some alliances, but never in the two I have been a part of.

Also NAAC had roughly 800 members shortly before we disbanded. I can guarantee the active core of that alliance is largely still on Planet Bob, still actively involved in shaping the planet for good (or bad as the case may be) and no one ever killed our community, even the mighty Sponge couldn't do that.

I find the myth BUSTED and the OP proven.

[Electron Sponge]

even the mighty Sponge couldn't do that

but... 9/19 never forget?

[Lord Boris]

You can cause an alliance to disband without forcing an alliance to disband.

Damn you, bzelger. You made me agree with you.

[magicninja]

Well, I think there's a difference between going in with the goal of trying to make an alliance disband, or giving serious terms so outrageous that many would prefer just to walk away and fighting an alliance that just doesn't have much will to exist (or whose leadership doesn't). As the actions by Sponge that led to disbandment of \m/ are asserted to have been a tactic to prolong a war that shouldn't have ended in disbandment, I think it's different.

In any case, I'll let him draw the distinctions he wants to; I have no investment here. I just wanted to be sure that you're not trying to wash the bloodstains off of other peoples' hands by piggybacking Sponge's argument.

Site me some examples where NPO went in wanting to disband someone.

[Roadie]

Well, I think there's a difference between going in with the goal of trying to make an alliance disband, or giving serious terms so outrageous that many would prefer just to walk away and fighting an alliance that just doesn't have much will to exist (or whose leadership doesn't). As the actions by Sponge that led to disbandment of \m/ are asserted to have been a tactic to prolong a war that shouldn't have ended in disbandment, I think it's different.

In any case, I'll let him draw the distinctions he wants to; I have no investment here. I just wanted to be sure that you're not trying to wash the bloodstains off of other peoples' hands by piggybacking Sponge's argument.

He's not. He's just curious like the rest of us as to how hegemony can get so openly blamed for alliances bisbanding, but when Sponde says it's the fault of the disbanded, the Karma side in this thread largely agrees in lock step.

I happen to agree with Sponge here, but that doesn't change the open and blatant hipocrisy. You can see someone in this thread saying Polar is generally blamed for alliances disbanding whom happen to also be listed in multiple sigs as the fault of hegemony.

Edited May 14, 2009 by Roadie

[magicninja]

He's not. He's just curious like the rest of us as to how hegemony can get so openly blamed for alliances bisbanding, but when Sponde says it's the fault of the disbanded, the Karma side in this thread largely agrees in lock step.

I happen to agree with Sponge here, but that doesn't change the open and blatant hipocrisy. You can see someone in this thread saying Polar is generally blamed for alliances disbanding whom happen to also be listed in multiple sigs as the fault of hegemony.

Basically this. I also know you guys will continue to split hairs about it though.

[bzelger]

Site me some examples where NPO went in wanting to disband someone.

Off the top of my head, the terms NPO gave LoSS were expected to be unlivable.

To be perfectly frank, no one really expected LoSS to survive under the terms.

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=19635

Edit:

Damn you, bzelger. You made me agree with you.

Let us take steps to ensure that this never happens again.

Edited May 14, 2009 by bzelger

[Senes]

It is also worth noting that people all over the board have played roles in putting such pressure on alliances that have disbanded in the past, so there is another reason to pipe down about who did what.

o/ thread.

[magicninja]

Off the top of my head, the terms NPO gave LoSS were expected to be unlivable.

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=19635

Edit:

Let us take steps to ensure that this never happens again.

So? At least LoSS came through. The terms Sponge gave \m/ were unlivable too (saying they were a joke doesn't make it right imo) and look what happened to them.

[Electron Sponge]

Site me some examples where NPO went in wanting to disband someone.

The wars against LUE and MK stick out in my mind.

[bzelger]

So? At least LoSS came through. The terms Sponge gave \m/ were unlivable too (saying they were a joke doesn't make it right imo) and look what happened to them.

Like I said, I'll leave it to Sponge to argue his case. This isn't my fight.

[magicninja]

The wars against LUE and MK stick out in my mind.

Enlighten me about LUE.

Also, MK is around and doing very well so we won't count them.