Official Announcement from The Order of the Paradox

[Martino]

While I also wished you hadn't used OUT to enter this war, I understand that there were few other options available. I hope we will still be allies once this war is over.

Edited April 28, 2009 by Martino

[Meer Republic]

I hope we will still be allies once this war is over.

Likewise.

[SoxNation]

Even though we are fighting IRON, I know the FCC respects IRON and would love to see your relationship with TOP maintained.

[shahenshah]

It saddens me to see IRON and the NPO destroy our relationship even further with their misguided posts in this thread. I guess we now know your true colors.

One can say same about your post. We have nearly 800 members and they are free to speak or interpret meanings as they see fit. Council has clarified its positive and strong position with TOP leadership, at least thats what the message they sent out last time I talked to anyone of those.

Members long expected TOP will fight besides those who are with Karma. But specifically using OUT is like throwing an insult, it implies a totally opposite political message to the positive talk that is visible here. It is I believe unintentionally giving a wrong impression of TOP and IRON's relations. While it is understandable TOP's military and political obligations lean towards those fighting for Karma but we look forward on how TOP can play a positive constructive role on the hours when the guns begin to get quite and end these unintentional miscommunications once and for all and prove all those who doubt wrong.

Edited April 28, 2009 by shahenshah

[ojiras ajeridas]

One can say same about your post. We have nearly 800 members and they are free to speak or interpret meanings as they see fit. Council has clarified its positive and strong position with TOP leadership, at least thats what the message they sent out last time I talked to anyone of those.

Members long expected TOP will fight besides those who are with Karma. But specifically using OUT is like throwing an insult, it implies a totally opposite political message to the positive talk that is visible here. It is I believe unintentionally giving a wrong impression of TOP and IRON's relations. While it is understandable TOP's military and political obligations lean towards those fighting for Karma but we look forward on how TOP can play a positive constructive role on the hours when the guns begin to get quite and end these unintentional miscommunications once and for all and prove all those who doubt wrong.

I'm sure TOP will do the best to fit in this positive constructive role after the war, not looking where the alliances fought, but who the alliances are. And I'm confident that our alliances will get past this little misunderstanding, as it never was our objective to do anything that could leave a bad taste in IRON's mouth. The high reguards in which IRON is held at TOP didn't change in this conflict.

[TECUMSEH]

At least I'm glad TOP has admitted that it's also repulsed by the "Karma" side in this. I've now saw TOP members call some Karma alliances Vultures, Hypocrates, Imbecilic, and Deceitful in this very thread. Much better than the mindless hailing of every act of the Karma side.

This. Good post, Vol Navy.

looks like UPN is finally in this war. Its not always so easy when your forced to defend. So now it seems its a fair fight, and your NS is starting to show that.

Much respect to R&R, Juslen. UPN knows you're engaging NPO as well. And, I think it's been a heck of fight between R&R and UPN to date. However, heh, to call it a "fair fight" -- right. Don't get me wrong -- I think that's simply inaccurate -- it's not a complaint. CN isn't about fair fights. It's about trying to be on the side with numbers and, if not, fighting with honor.

As I said earlier, the only surprise is that it's TOP and not the SFs jumping in. Though, I suspect that's only a matter of time.

[Joe Kremlin]

Who cares about being ir Karma or not? We're fighting these 4 alliances and that puts us on that side. This was involves pretty much everyone in CN so it's not too surprising that there are alliances we like and dislike on each side.

[dvdcchn]

I'm sure TOP will do the best to fit in this positive constructive role after the war, not looking where the alliances fought, but who the alliances are. And I'm confident that our alliances will get past this little misunderstanding, as it never was our objective to do anything that could leave a bad taste in IRON's mouth. The high reguards in which IRON is held at TOP didn't change in this conflict.

hear hear, the high regards are mutual, we shall always be brothers. our goverment, and even our memebership could not see it any other way. and like brothers, we may not always agree at the moment, but regardles will always be there for each other.

o/ Orange

o/ Paradoxians

o/ IRONmen

[TBRaiders]

it is understandable, and most of the assembly understand this, the part that stung was the invocation of OUT when IRON was preemptively attacked by FARK before we entered the war

IRON attacked ROK and then FARK declared on IRON in defense of ROK. I can post an exact timeline with links to DoW's if you need it. Maybe some of this unwarranted aggression against TOP is simply a matter of some of you guys not even knowing what the heck is going on.

1) NPO pulls off a sneak attack against OV during the middle of peace negotiations without posting a DoW until more than 30 minutes after their assault began.

2) Several of OV's allies and MDoAP partners of those allies declare on NPO in defense of OV. One of those alliances was ROK.

3) IRON declares on ROK in support of NPOs aggressive war against OV.

4) Fark and friends declare on IRON in support of ROK.

5) Many alliances declare for both sides. If they declare for the side you want to win, they are honorable but if they declare for the other side they are the spawn of Satan and broke at least 37 treaties. This applies to both sides of this war.

Some more random thoughts:

- Hundreds of the same people who have either stated in the last year how this world is boring or how they need a challenge decide maybe boring or less of a challenge is better.

- Optional means optional no matter how disappointing the definition of the word reads.

- Standing up for allies who are on the defensive side of this war is a good move even if you don't care for all of the alliances who are also clumped into that same coalition. Jumping in with the aggressors even though you don't agree with their actions is a lemming move.

- Having so many "brothers" with different ideologies and political goals is what got us here in the first place. You can't have a MDP with everybody and then expect nobody to disappointed when you can't come to their defense. - This applies to the entire mess called the treaty web.

[Jinnai]

- Having so many "brothers" with different ideologies and political goals is what got us here in the first place. You can't have a MDP with everybody and then expect nobody to disappointed when you can't come to their defense. - This applies to the entire mess called the treaty web.

With the exception of having 1 MDP, that's possible no matter the number.

[Alterego]

IRON attacked ROK and then FARK declared on IRON in defense of ROK. I can post an exact timeline with links to DoW's if you need it. Maybe some of this unwarranted aggression against TOP is simply a matter of some of you guys not even knowing what the heck is going on.

1) NPO pulls off a sneak attack against OV during the middle of peace negotiations without posting a DoW until more than 30 minutes after their assault began.

2) Several of OV's allies and MDoAP partners of those allies declare on NPO in defense of OV. One of those alliances was ROK.

3) IRON declares on ROK in support of NPOs aggressive war against OV.

4) Fark and friends declare on IRON in support of ROK.

5) Many alliances declare for both sides. If they declare for the side you want to win, they are honorable but if they declare for the other side they are the spawn of Satan and broke at least 37 treaties. This applies to both sides of this war.

How about this one.

1. Umbrella DoW on BAPS in a sneaky underhanded plan to allow TOP enter a part of the war they had no business declaring in. They dont launch a single attack on BAPS.

2. TOP use the optional aggression attack and play out their part of the plan

3. TSO use the same optional aggression attack

That is TOP looking to enter the fight and manipulating the treaty web while ignoring a whole bunch of direct treaties. Each DoW is technically correct, its the underhanded and sneaky way they entered the war that will leave a bad taste in mouth of the small number of purple nations that survive the war.

Edited April 28, 2009 by Alterego

[dvdcchn]

IRON attacked ROK and then FARK declared on IRON in defense of ROK. I can post an exact timeline with links to DoW's if you need it. Maybe some of this unwarranted aggression against TOP is simply a matter of some of you guys not even knowing what the heck is going on.

please do, and while your at it see when FARk started attacking IRON see if they match up, they do not.

yes NPO is the big bad guy, everyone needs something to blame, and all this talk about NPO and the sneak attack, did OV really want peace? why where they so stubborn in refusing to negotiate as well. both sides wanted this war, and what ever karma may say, they had this war planned and pegged. its life. no one is innocent or niave enough to think this is soley NPO's fault. as you stated, people simply got bored and going after the top alliances is natural. and so it takes a minimum 5 to 1 alliance ratio, well done karma .

as it is understandable that IRON membership will have had a bad taste about the use of OUT as guise to war, it is understanable that some of TOP's membership may not understand why or know the relationship or allainces have had.

[ojiras ajeridas]

The main reason of TOP not fighting with IRON is the involvement of Grämlins in that war. When two of your friends are fighting, you better don't fight with one or the other.

[Dr. Dan]

hear hear, the high regards are mutual, we shall always be brothers. our goverment, and even our memebership could not see it any other way. and like brothers, we may not always agree at the moment, but regardles will always be there for each other.

o/ Orange

o/ Paradoxians

o/ IRONmen

Hear hear!

How about this one.

1. Umbrella DoW on BAPS in a sneaky underhanded plan to allow TOP enter a part of the war they had no business declaring in. They dont launch a single attack on BAPS.

2. TOP use the optional aggression attack and play out their part of the plan

3. TSO use the same optional aggression attack

That is TOP looking to enter the fight and manipulating the treaty web while ignoring a whole bunch of direct treaties. Each DoW is technically correct, its the underhanded and sneaky way they entered the war that will leave a bad taste in mouth of the small number of purple nations that survive the war.

We are sneaky folk. I heard we also arranged this whole war to get to #1. Good plan, if I do say so myself.

[DougZ37]

Yeah you guys wish we'd see it from your perspective (IRON) but look at it from ours as well. You're making a DoW in support of NPO's aggressive and unncessary war, and you're countered by our closest allies Gramlins, FCC, MHA, and an alliance we're friendly with FARK. Not an easy choice there.

[KingSuck]

<snip>

A great post. One of the universal truths in CN as far as I'm concerned is that everybody gets rolled eventually.

Just fashionable late to the party...as usual.

As for people having complaints and disappointments, I suppose those are justified, mostly.

We have wronged, and we have been wronged. If anyone tried to stop this mess, it was us, if anyone is mad at how this came about, it is us. Our entrance is not fair, not just, not glorious, not honourable, it is the grim work we must do as our efforts to prevent this failed and that which we thought stable collapsed.

There is no reason to gloss over the truth, or rationalize that which is madness.

I sympathize with many of those that complains in this thread, I despise many of those that hails us in this thread.

The Platypus will drink the blood of those we fight, it will rip the flesh from their bones, but it does so out of hunger, of necessity, there is no pleasure from hunting in dark waters. It yearns to feast upon the souls of our true enemies, and it's hunger is great.

Another great post; whilst I'm not going to pretend to be happy about this DoW, I guess time will show your true colours.

Edited April 28, 2009 by KingSuck

[Alterego]

We are sneaky folk. I heard we also arranged this whole war to get to #1. Good plan, if I do say so myself.

Hegemony speak 101, apparently.

[TBRaiders]

please do, and while your at it see when FARk started attacking IRON see if they match up, they do not.

yes NPO is the big bad guy, everyone needs something to blame, and all this talk about NPO and the sneak attack, did OV really want peace? why where they so stubborn in refusing to negotiate as well. both sides wanted this war, and what ever karma may say, they had this war planned and pegged. its life. no one is innocent or niave enough to think this is soley NPO's fault. as you stated, people simply got bored and going after the top alliances is natural. and so it takes a minimum 5 to 1 alliance ratio, well done karma .

as it is understandable that IRON membership will have had a bad taste about the use of OUT as guise to war, it is understanable that some of TOP's membership may not understand why or know the relationship or allainces have had.

Fark, as most other alliances, was on high alert. They posted their counter DoW four minutes after your declaration on ROK. If you are talking about the two Fark rogues or jumpers (not sure which they are) I will also point out that IRON also had two nations attack VE on the 22nd. Are you at war with VE without posting a DoW? It's pretty clear to everyone that Fark did not blitz IRON until after you made your DoW against ROK and already had eight in-game declarations on ROK nations. I just clicked and looked at all IRON wars and it is plain to see. Fark's blitz was very obvious.

As for the rest of your post, I don't buy it and don't see why anyone else would. NPO was never going to be attacked by a Karma coalition. NPO attacking OV brought the creation of the coalition. Too many alliances currently fighting on that side would have never opted to join an offensive war. MHA and TOP would have came to NPO's defense and had anyone attacked either of them GRE and many other alliances would have been there as well. This just wasn't well thought out by NPO leadership and anyone thinking otherwise just isn't seeing the bigger picture.

Your "5 to 1 alliance ratio" odds doesn't mean a thing without looking at total NS. Last time I checked, this is the fairest war I've seen IRON or NPO fight since I've been a citizen of this planet.

[Ivan V]

I will also point out that IRON also had two nations attack VE on the 22nd. Are you at war with VE without posting a DoW?

To clarify this, those members officially left IRON (but forgot to drop their AA) in order to fight. It was of their own volition and initiative.

Edited April 28, 2009 by Ivan V

[TBRaiders]

And I believe that. I was merely using it as a comparison. We had an ex-NPO member who decided to go back to NPO just a couple days ago after we were already in the war. I just wanted to make it clear that we all saw the Fark blitz and it was after the IRON DoW.

I know IRON and TOP have been friends for a long time and I do hope fences get mended after all this is over.

[Rush Sykes]

Just fashionable late to the party...as usual.

As for people having complaints and disappointments, I suppose those are justified, mostly.

We have wronged, and we have been wronged. If anyone tried to stop this mess, it was us, if anyone is mad at how this came about, it is us. Our entrance is not fair, not just, not glorious, not honourable, it is the grim work we must do as our efforts to prevent this failed and that which we thought stable collapsed.

There is no reason to gloss over the truth, or rationalize that which is madness.

I sympathize with many of those that complains in this thread, I despise many of those that hails us in this thread.

The Platypus will drink the blood of those we fight, it will rip the flesh from their bones, but it does so out of hunger, of necessity, there is no pleasure from hunting in dark waters. It yearns to feast upon the souls of our true enemies, and it's hunger is great.

This is probably the most spot on reply that anyone has posted to anything in recent days. TOP has admitted to have wronged, and like any other entity on Bob, they have been wronged. Probably both more than one time. I have many friends residing within TOP(OOC: I am a Re-roll, and was formerly Master Plo Koon from FINAL). In reality, almost all alliances on this game have committed wrongs. Probably all, not almost in actuality. I take Bodvars post, and maybe I am wrong, as something similar to "let he who is without sin cast the 1st stone." Being defacto on the side of Karma, and despising parts of Karma is fine. Sometimes the name of justice requires uneasy alliances. The only thing i would ask of TOP(and NPO and IRON for that matter), is for individual members to look at the past, look the sum total of actions that you have taken part in, and ask yourself this... "Even if I despise parts of Karma, have I(we) not, at some or many points in time, done the exact same things?" Bob evolves, and this is just another manifestation of the evolution of Bob. Well past this day, someone will be power. We know not who. They will be wronged, and they will commit wrongs. It might even be the same cast of characters as today, only time will tell that. I ask only that everyone remember Bodvars 1st sentence in his post. And think....do you fit that sentence too? Thank you all for your time.

Edited April 28, 2009 by Rush Sykes

[Titus Pullo]

Yeah you guys wish we'd see it from your perspective (IRON) but look at it from ours as well. You're making a DoW in support of NPO's aggressive and unncessary war, and you're countered by our closest allies Gramlins, FCC, MHA, and an alliance we're friendly with FARK. Not an easy choice there.

Not to mention that attacking any of those four would be a breach of at least one treaty.

[aaannndddyyy]

Paradoxia Vult!

Yea I'm a bit late.

[Jinnai]

I ask only that everyone remember Bodvars 1st sentence in his post. And think....do you fit that sentence too? Thank you all for your time.

Just fashionable late to the party...as usual.

????

[Crymson]

Edit: I was linked to a post in this thread and I mistakenly thought the thread was made up of recent posts relating to current events (I did not look at the title). Apologies for the inadvertent gravedig. I imagine this will momentarily ruffle some feathers, but bear in mind that it is, in fact, seven months old, and it bears no relation to the current situation.

Feel free to heap on the ridicule.

Edited November 15, 2009 by Crymson