TWiP and Tattler Present: Reyne Mordigan's Greatest Hits

[RandomInterrupt]

When compared to the screenshots in the OP, they are not exact but they are similar in regards to the fact that is is government people, talking in private about frustrations.

Now how is this compared with Reyne saying she hate certain allainces?

Why do you keep asking questions where the answer is already given?

[crazy canuck]

If that was your CB for your war...wow. That's a GGA level CB right there.

You are mixing up a couple things. Rommel was not setting out the grounds for the CB he was merely responding to the comment that the discussions within the NpO were similar to comments disclosed in this thread.

[crazy canuck]

Why do you keep asking questions where the answer is already given?

Probably because your response is not responsive to the question.

Do you really not see a distinction between what was said by NpO government both privately and in public and what has been said in this thread?

Edited March 25, 2009 by crazy canuck

[jerdge]

She did purge OG... She did suggest that FOK government coup the people in FOK and that they purge their alliance as well of 95% of its membership... I don't see why FOK shouldn't be upset and want an answer. If I were an ally in FCC, I'd want to know how you'd feel if she told Methrage to ignore a 95% vote and throw out all members of FCC that didn't agree with him(maybe he did agree with them but was too pressured by an outside alliance to act that way). Maybe she doesn't have to answer for her words(which this is a world of words thus words = actions), but it doesn't mean she shouldn't.

I don't see how this is hard to grasp.

I'll answer to this post just because it represents well the point of view I disagree with (nothing personal, Kroknia - in fact you even later clarified your thought).

Now, I find the public request to Reyne for apologies to be quite silly, especially if made "on behalf of FOK" (or anything like that).

Even reading only the biased selection that my dear Shantamantan made of her words, it's quite evident that at the time Reyne was terribly annoyed by that choice made by the FOKkers (to leave tC). The fact that she expressed her feelings in such a direct way is certainly telling of her temperament (we all already knew of, anyway), but it can't in any way be construed as an incitation for "a coup" in FOK.

Was that offensive, anyway? Certainly it was, as calling someone "idiot" isn't anything kind. But I must also draw your attention on the fact that she was saying those things in a discussion in which the government of FOK was partecipating (ITT): the issue FOK may have had with Reyne (if any) has thus certainly been resolved/fogotten long ago.

The harshness of an offence is also a matter that depends and varies with the people involved. While a stranger that said "idiots" at the first meeting wouldn't certainly be welcomed, and old friend - known for having "quite" a temperament - can certainly be excused for what she says in a heated moment.

By any means Reyne was caring for the good of not only her alliance and block(s), but also of FOK - or at least she looked that way to me. I'm sure that the FOKkers didn't fail to notice that, either.

Now, I concede that Reyne seems to have a weird concept of "democracy" and that certainly she is little competent to teach to FOK on the matter, but that doesn't mean that her suggestions and critics - no matter how wrong - should be met with endless hostility by FOK. In fact, these last seem to be cool about her, probably because they allow their friends to make mistakes and to be annoying at times, and at the same time they're happy that Reyne will be at their side with that exact same vehemence, in case of need.

Finally, I agree that The Grämlins (and many other in Citadel) are awesome, brilliant, outstanding: I'm very happy that so many "non-aligned" are inspired by them.

I find it very weird that some of these same "non-aligned" don't trust them on Reyne also. I'd imagine that Citadel members would know of and would be able to interpret Reyne's activity on their board much better than Vox's spies, but who am I to know...

The sad reality of this publication (aside from the mosst wise Delta's words) is that Vox Populi is trying to incite distrust, hostility and division between those they feel are "too much NPO-friendly to be swayed", and those they think are fool enough to instead follow their advice.

While I would be very positive towards creative movements that were trying to civilize international politics ,reducing the "might makes right" mentality, Vox is merely trying to damage the current (perceived) hegemony and they shouldn't be listened to, in my opinion.

(Well, my dear Shantamantan and others are very good as writers and I enjoy very much their theatre - no sarcasm... I just mean that I don't trust what they say, that I am opposed to their projects to bring chaos and destruction on CN, and that I recommend to everybody to take their publications with a grain ton of salt...)

[Richard Rahl]

Correct me if I'm wrong, and if I am I sincerely apologize, but I thought that Vox was fighting so that every nation leader could rule as they see fit, as sovereigns.

All I see is people telling Reyne she MUST apologize for her opinions, as if it is wrong for people to hold opinions. That line of thinking seems to run contrary to Vox's purpose; allowing rulers to rule free of interference from others.

As I see it, Vox hates the fact that rulers must step lightly for fear of offending the NPO, Q, or related allies. I believe that they also despise having to play by other peoples rules, or in a manner that others wish them to play. They want the freedom to rule how they see fit, interact with other rulers as they see fit, and believe as they see fit.

By saying that Reyne MUST apologize for stating her opinions to her close allies in the very home of their bloc, it seems to me that Vox is acting in direct opposition to their goals (as I see them).

What I got out of this issue is that Reyne has the strength of character to speak her mind, and that the Citadel is comfortable enough to allow discussion with multiple viewpoints presented.

Again, if any of my assumptions are incorrect, I do apologize. My knowledge of Vox is limited to what I see posted on the OWF. I've never actually spoken with anyone from Vox, although I wouldn't mind it, simply to try to understand things from their point of view.

[Chickenzilla]

So NpO/BLEU never discussed attacking Gremlins?

Has Grämlins never discussed going to war with Pacifica? Never discussed expelling Old Guard from Citadel?

[Chickenzilla]

Correct me if I'm wrong, and if I am I sincerely apologize, but I thought that Vox was fighting so that every nation leader could rule as they see fit, as sovereigns.

All I see is people telling Reyne she MUST apologize for her opinions, as if it is wrong for people to hold opinions. That line of thinking seems to run contrary to Vox's purpose; allowing rulers to rule free of interference from others.

As I see it, Vox hates the fact that rulers must step lightly for fear of offending the NPO, Q, or related allies. I believe that they also despise having to play by other peoples rules, or in a manner that others wish them to play. They want the freedom to rule how they see fit, interact with other rulers as they see fit, and believe as they see fit.

By saying that Reyne MUST apologize for stating her opinions to her close allies in the very home of their bloc, it seems to me that Vox is acting in direct opposition to their goals (as I see them).

What I got out of this issue is that Reyne has the strength of character to speak her mind, and that the Citadel is comfortable enough to allow discussion with multiple viewpoints presented.

Again, if any of my assumptions are incorrect, I do apologize. My knowledge of Vox is limited to what I see posted on the OWF. I've never actually spoken with anyone from Vox, although I wouldn't mind it, simply to try to understand things from their point of view.

Come to #Vox_Populi There are some decent people in there.

[ROMMELHSQ]

You are mixing up a couple things. Rommel was not setting out the grounds for the CB he was merely responding to the comment that the discussions within the NpO were similar to comments disclosed in this thread.

Probably because your response is not responsive to the question.

Do you really not see a distinction between what was said by NpO government both privately and in public and what has been said in this thread?

Thanks CC, you said what was in my head.

[enderland]

Has Grämlins never discussed going to war with Pacifica? Never discussed expelling Old Guard from Citadel?

In a serious fashion, or one worth mentioning to our allies? Not even close. Though I have discussed declaring against DarkMistress a few times before

When allies become aware of your plans there is far more at stake than simply idle speculation.

Edited March 25, 2009 by alden peterson

[Walker Texas Ranger]

Anyone else notice how Vox Press is not the one making a fool of itself over the past 10 minutes?

In every other TWiP thread, I noticed a distinct lack of Pacifica. Now that Pacifica doesn't show up, Pacifica is angry.

Someone needs to fix their OPSEC. Apparently Pacifica rejoices security breaches.

[SoxNation]

I really don't like beating up a dead horse, but you must of have been playing CN server 2.0 then.

Can't see anything about the word "nice" here.

Now how is this compared with Reyne saying she hate certain allainces?

Ah you mean the SS's that could not be provided to their own allies to justify the war...

Glad that I finally see it and all of CN sees it, now that i'm not TOP 3 and obligated to receive it. But when you couple that with the other one i'm referring to, it paints a much better picture. namely that they believed TOP would always hate them and war was gonna come no matter what...

i'm sorry, I'm on Cits side but RI's point stands, you are taking an out of context post on private boards and saying they can be used as a CB, yet Reyne's posts are out of context as well, and you can't see the similarity?

I kinda think you are both being silly. This little side bar proves nothing, Doesn't prove anything about Reyne and debating the CB is retarded as well. But yes RI is right that you are taking one arguement with one of these 2 situations and the other with the other.

[Slayer99]

She blatantly insulted an ally. You really don't get to just ignore that.

Anyone that knows Reyne also knows she's not one to pull any punches and we respect her for that. You can't speak to the dynamic she has with the Citadel alliances and neither can I.

I will tell you that while it should be obvious, private forums between allies in a bloc are less diplomatic and more to the point. At the end of the day, agreements are reached, hands shaken, and all is good.

[Schattenmann]

I really don't like beating up a dead horse, but you must of have been playing CN server 2.0 then.

Can't see anything about the word "nice" here.

Now how is this compared with Reyne saying she hate certain allainces?

ITT a member of TOP posts screenshots from the NpO forum.

Correct me if I'm wrong, and if I am I sincerely apologize, but I thought that Vox was fighting so that every nation leader could rule as they see fit, as sovereigns.

All I see is people telling Reyne she MUST apologize for her opinions, as if it is wrong for people to hold opinions. That line of thinking seems to run contrary to Vox's purpose; allowing rulers to rule free of interference from others.

As I see it, Vox hates the fact that rulers must step lightly for fear of offending the NPO, Q, or related allies. I believe that they also despise having to play by other peoples rules, or in a manner that others wish them to play. They want the freedom to rule how they see fit, interact with other rulers as they see fit, and believe as they see fit.

By saying that Reyne MUST apologize for stating her opinions to her close allies in the very home of their bloc, it seems to me that Vox is acting in direct opposition to their goals (as I see them).

What I got out of this issue is that Reyne has the strength of character to speak her mind, and that the Citadel is comfortable enough to allow discussion with multiple viewpoints presented.

Again, if any of my assumptions are incorrect, I do apologize. My knowledge of Vox is limited to what I see posted on the OWF. I've never actually spoken with anyone from Vox, although I wouldn't mind it, simply to try to understand things from their point of view.

Your conclusions are completely wrong due to your applying calls for apologies to Vox Populi when in fact Vox has made no such calls. I will attribute this to Acute Vox Tunnel Vision, which is a terrible disease currently effecting over 90% of rulers on Planet Bob. Symptoms include attributing comments from any and everyone in a Vox-opened thread to Vox Populi rather than to the person that posted them or his alliance; not being able to understand anything that is written by a member of Vox Populi; anarchy joke telling; telling Vox what its goals are (because the infected person knows better); submitting wide-margined assumptions about Vox as fact especially in regards to concepts that have already been covered in every Vox thread since August; and many more.

Where does AVTV hurt? Every post. Who does AVTV hurt? Everyone.

I do applaud and welcome your earnest manner, but I can't pass up such a blatant misinterpretation like this. There's no call by Vox for apologies in the OP, or in any subsequent Vox-member post.

[AirMe]

I was hoping for more out of this weeks TWiP, oh well can't please everyone.

And just for those people wondering, most of the people who left MK to join Umbrella did so because we weren't moving closer to Citadel. So to call them spies would be horribly inaccurate.

[Slayer99]

What are we to draw from your lack of response to points others have raised?

Thank you mister helper, but my original post and response weren't geared towards you because you haven't raised any points...and neither has Delta.

[SpiderJerusalem]

@Nemesis - I really don't even remember why I mentioned you guys. Must not have been too important.

Wait just a minute...

Oh, I see what you did there now.

[Blacky]

In a serious fashion, or one worth mentioning to our allies? Not even close.

Well considering their opinion of the Grämlins is similar to that of Colonel Sanders over there I would look into it. Even if just as a mental exercise. Out of respect for the Citadel and their privacy which has been breached in this thread I'm going to cease posting where it is not neccessary. Still dissapointed in ROMMEL though for what it's worth.

[Sal Paradise]

So NpO/BLEU never discussed attacking Gremlins?

Clear and imminent threat said Bob.

[ROMMELHSQ]

SoxNation: again, I'm not saying it is a CB.

Edited March 25, 2009 by ROMMELHSQ

[Slayer99]

I'll debate you when there is something to debate. I don't particularly care about Sponge, only the irony of you responding to a complaint that you commit character assassination against him by making a post that consisted entirely of a character assassination. Whether your statements were true or not, it's still an irony that appears to be lost on you.

Of course, I can't blame you entirely, since I only just noticed the irony of you then responding to me with exactly the same tactic. It happens to all of us it seems.

I didn't assassinate Sponge's character...he's done a good enough job of that on his own with his own hypocrisy which I pointed out in my post. I just found it odd that anyone would defend or take him seriously.

[MagicalTrevor]

I was hoping for more out of this weeks TWiP, oh well can't please everyone.

And just for those people wondering, most of the people who left MK to join Umbrella did so because we weren't moving closer to Citadel. So to call them spies would be horribly inaccurate.

Nice gameplan, i think they'll buy it.

B)

[Meer Republic]

ITT a member of TOP posts screenshots from the NpO forum.

Bzzzzt. Wrong. Rommel is a member of Gramlins.

You should pull up a series of your past hits Schattenmann, back from when you first started, I'm sure they'd show you in a wonderful light. That said I fear the boards may implode from the accompanying irony. Personal attacks are a new low though for your current freedom fighter persona at least, congrats.

[crazy canuck]

i'm sorry, I'm on Cits side but RI's point stands, you are taking an out of context post on private boards and saying they can be used as a CB, yet Reyne's posts are out of context as well, and you can't see the similarity?

You are making the same mistake as the Chicken. Rommel didnt say it could be used as a CB. He was responding to the comment that the two were the same. Rommel posted it to show that there are differences between the two.

Edited March 25, 2009 by crazy canuck

[Brotherington]

I didn't assassinate Sponge's character...he's done a good enough job of that on his own with his own hypocrisy which I pointed out in my post. I just found it odd that anyone would defend or take him seriously.

Well then you could say Reyne assasinated her own character by being so rude and unpleasant...

[crazy canuck]

Well then you could say Reyne assasinated her own character by being so rude and unpleasant...

I wonder what would happen if rude/unpleasant posts were automatically filtered from the internet. How much content would be deleted from this game/the net.