TWiP and Tattler Present: Reyne Mordigan's Greatest Hits

[Blacky]

pictures or it didn't happen

Incase you missed what I said earlier.

"I'm dissapointed that ROMMEL mistook the feelings of the public towards TSO as somehow being opposed to TOP via some sort of agenda. This could not be further from the truth. Most of us really like TOP in some cases as much as we do Grämlins."

And a repeat of my opinion on the exposed posts.

You obviously missed the part where she made a point of hating half of the alliances in the game. Basically her measure of respect for an alliance is how obedient they are to NPO. I mean I totally accept that in an OOC context she might be an amazing person. But as a leader of an alliance she has done a fine job in offending practically every active alliance on the OWF not directly under the control of the NPO. Based on those screencaps alone I would find it hard to believe they haven't offended those within the Citadel.

Does she have NPO's best interests in mind or the Citadel's?

[mrcalkin]

People make mistakes. You make mistakes, alliances make mistakes... even I made a mistake once. But people, after making a mistake, apologize for making said mistake.

Don't assume there hasn't been an apology just because it wasn't posted here. I know I have had my issues with OG and Reyne these last few months, but I am not lying when I say I think we have come out of this a stronger and tighter bloc than any time since Umbrella has joined. With the extent of the ignorance which plagues posters in this thread, I doubt any of you will believe me though.

[Brotherington]

Article confirms that Reyne hates Mushroom Kingdom, nice to know we are doing something right.

[mrniice]

There is absolutely no way this issue could be improved. I just want to print it off and cuddle with it by the fire. Also, I'm starting to get the impression that Reyne is the only actual member of OG, the rest being clones or perhaps Chinese professional MMO players.

Bravo. Eagerly anticipating part two.

Hell, it's time for me to pack up the kids and move to China. I didn't know that I could make money living on Planet Bob.

Thanks for the tip.

[Epik High]

I don't see why people would be wondering what the purpose of this thread is? It's pretty clear it is a supposed expose on a well known leader to show people who are not privy to the private and back room conversations what this leader is like behind closed doors.

The argument regarding purpose is that exposing a leader's negative qualities isn't all that conducive to Vox's long term goals against the hegemony. At least that's what I got from Delta's excellently written post. Unfortunately, the more insightful and subtle arguments are overlooked and the debate devolves to one side characterizing the other with the arguments of the lowest common denominator. I think it's perfectly fine to be debating the motives/purpose behind this thread. What else would we be talking about? How evil Reyne is? I think the OP got that covered.

Of course it is focused with a negative light, but the ironic thing of it all is the best defense the detractors have is not that she isn't like that, but later on things get worked out. Implying she is difficult to work with at times, very opinionated, and stubborn, but will eventually see reason to reach an agreement.

How is this ironic? Also, how is it not the best defense? If her allies obviously have seen the positives in her to outweigh the negatives in all the time they've been allied to OG, then what makes you think seeing rehashed information is going to change any minds?

Delta's post I was referencing:

See, that's what I don't understand. This seems like it was just put together to be annoying but not actually accomplish any of whatever Vox's goals are. It's obvious they consider OG, or Reyne or whatever. to be a Continuum puppet in Citadel. They say it repeatedly. But the evidence they present is stuff that Citadel has always had access, too. It's obviously not going to sway your opinion in any way, and if Reyne actually were what they accused her of being then Continuum obviously isn't going to do anything about it.

Since those are the only two groups that really have anything to do with Old Guard, I'm left wondering what this was meant to do exactly. Going on the attack without new information is just going to put Citadel on the defensive, arguably driving them closer together (not much, perhaps, but it certainly isn't going to drive in new wedges or deepen any potentially extant ones). And attacking Reyne is like attacking Bilrow, they've never really been crowd favorites, and it doesn't seem to have had any adverse effects so far. Vox obviously can't undercut any popular support because she's never seemed to be one to play to the people anyway. Ultimately, I don't see this thread damaging Reyne's credibility with anyone that having bad credibility with would be an issue for her.

In summary, lolwut?

[Sephiroth]

If I were an ally in FCC, I'd want to know how you'd feel if she told Methrage to ignore a 95% vote and throw out all members of FCC that didn't agree with him(maybe he did agree with them but was too pressured by an outside alliance to act that way). Maybe she doesn't have to answer for her words(which this is a world of words thus words = actions), but it doesn't mean she shouldn't.

I don't see how this is hard to grasp.

I would take that as her opinion and carry on with my day, maybe give her an earful to enlighten her on why that would be ridiculous as well. As long as no threats are involved it would just be harmless discussion, might get a bit heated, but in the end we would still be Citadel. Sometimes we take extreme positions at some points as we are speaking openly to each other and discussions get heated, but what these screenshots don't show is that she is willing to change her view when reasonable arguments are brought up, also these are old screen shots that don't reflect how current discussions have been going. Some of these discussions she was screenshoted from are many pages long with opinions continuously shifting, while the screenshots might portray it as her just putting her foot down unwilling to alter her view, that just isn't how it is.

Edited March 25, 2009 by Methrage

[hizzy]

Don't assume there hasn't been an apology just because it wasn't posted here. I know I have had my issues with OG and Reyne these last few months, but I am not lying when I say I think we have come out of this a stronger and tighter bloc than any time since Umbrella has joined. With the extent of the ignorance which plagues posters in this thread, I doubt any of you will believe me though.

Reyne doesn't owe me an apology, so I honestly couldn't care less.

What I had an issue with was someone claiming that she shouldn't apologize at all because 1) she didn't "act", and 2) she's human. Both of which are ridiculous excuses.

[RandomInterrupt]

If you want to threaten me, FCC and Cit, that's cool too. What happened to freedom of speech?

The point is that we're talking, not acting.

I ask again. What was the CB against Polar?

(I know that the FCC didn't take part in that, which is why I still respect them so much, but the rest of the Citadel certainly did). I guess I'll answer it myself. The Citadel attacked Polar because of old grudges against a former leader and because of information spied from Polar's forum that proved that we thought TOP were kind of jerks. That is the reason Polar was attacked by guys like TOP, Gremlins, and yes OG. So to continue to use defenses like "she was just expressing her opinion in a private forum" is just more hypocrisy.

[ROMMELHSQ]

Incase you missed what I said earlier.

"I'm dissapointed that ROMMEL mistook the feelings of the public towards TSO as somehow being opposed to TOP via some sort of agenda. This could not be further from the truth. Most of us really like TOP in some cases as much as we do Grämlins."

When I see a few certain alliances were the ones who made that topic goes +70 pages and bring years old issue of TOP....no, I don't think I mistook the feelings at all.

Also, if you read my post, there was no mention of TOP at all. Trying to act all carrying for MCXA was the reason (given the AA's who acted as such), in addition to the above.

Anyway, how I view some alliances isn't this thread topic.

[ROMMELHSQ]

I ask again. What was the CB against Polar?

Ask your friend Doch.

[Nizzle]

Don't assume there hasn't been an apology just because it wasn't posted here. I know I have had my issues with OG and Reyne these last few months, but I am not lying when I say I think we have come out of this a stronger and tighter bloc than any time since Umbrella has joined. With the extent of the ignorance which plagues posters in this thread, I doubt any of you will believe me though.

You can't brainwash us with your voodoo magic and bunchie army! We know the truth!

*sharpens pitchfork*

[Blacky]

When I see a few certain alliances were the ones who made that topic goes +70 pages and bring years old issue of TOP....no, I don't think I mistook the feelings at all.

I assure you, you have mistaken the feelings of those involved.

Trying to act all carrying for MCXA was the reason (given the AA's who acted as such), in addition to the above.

Again you've mistaken the sentiment of those who posted in that thread. If you look back at it those who argued against it were mostly concerned with the fact that they argued "we're leaving because we don't like the direction the alliance is going in" even though they were behind the steering wheel the whole time.

[Electron Sponge]

Ask your friend Doch.

Or, you know, you could just answer the !@#$@#$ question since you took the time to say something in the first place.

[Dr. Dan]

Or, you know, you could just answer the !@#$@#$ question since you took the time to say something in the first place.

He got an answer the first time he said it. But please, let's turn this into a debate about the Polar CB again. And if you can't have the foresight to see that is what will happen, then I pity you.

[Bob Janova]

The CB against Polar was due to the presence of a clear and imminent (apparent? I don't want to get into that again though, start a new thread or take it to PMs if you want to discuss it) threat, not just that you were saying mean things about us.

[Electron Sponge]

The CB against Polar was due to the presence of a clear and imminent (apparent? I don't want to get into that again though, start a new thread or take it to PMs if you want to discuss it) threat, not just that you were saying mean things about us.

Thanks, now we can move on.

[terveis]

So.... if I say "chairmanR and the FCC are a bunch of morons. I want to nuke them all."... that's cool with you? I mean, like you said, i didn't ACT, I just made my opinion known, right?

If you say it in a private forum with your friends, i am ok with it. Why would we care what you talk about with your friends? Situation of course changes the instant you start to threaten us publicly, and/or start to act on your threats.

--

And hopefully on your next installement there will be some material from our senior and/or gov forums. There are better arguments there.

[RandomInterrupt]

Or, you know, you could just answer the !@#$@#$ question since you took the time to say something in the first place.

They don't have an answer. Simply put, when the Citadel accepts information from spies, attacks someone because said spied information shows there was "dislike" towards them in internal discussions, and holds people against the wall based on irrational grudges, it's called a valid reason for a war. When anyone else spies, however, it's wrong. When someone within the Citadel is shown to "dislike" others, it's freedom of speech, it's harmless, it's a show of good discourse, and it's vile that someone would air such a thing.

Every single attempt at a defense I have seen so far in this thread, and I have read it all, is simple hypocrisy. I don't care if it is former Polar's, or Vox, or FCC, or anyone else making the defense. To state that it is okay for the Citadel to act one way and it is okay for the Citadel to attack alliances for doing the exact same thing, is a bunch of crap. It's pathetic. GGA has taken a real beating this month and it's been fun for all, but it seems to be that the Citadel is just as bad. Perhaps worse as the Citadel is supposed to be an elite group. You can do better than this.

Now if anyone wants to actually tell me why my observation is false and do so without lying and attacking my character I'd love to hear it.

[ROMMELHSQ]

Or, you know, you could just answer the !@#$@#$ question since you took the time to say something in the first place.

I asked him to ask Doch because he is an ex-polar who believe the war was justified.

[zzzptm]

Whatever Citadel members may think of each other, they're not going to air dirty laundry. They present a united front, as any bloc of allies should.

The job of a journalist is not to dig up dirt, but to hold those in power responsible for their actions. If dirt is dug up, it needs to be connected to an action that demands scrutiny.

The character of RM has been called into question by Mr. Schattenmann. It seems as though those closest to her are willing to offer a public defense. That's about all we can get out of this. I'm not in an alliance that's connected directly to OG, so I don't have to pause to reflect on anything in the OP as regards her character as a leader.

The OP is interesting as a trove of primary source documents, and I am saddened to see such a dim view of my allies in Vanguard presented therein, but there is nothing more I can do but say that Vanguard are strong and valiant. If that's all anyone has to do to have one's nation beaten down these days, then I'll stand with them and receive their blows. And if Vanguard is not due a bashing for their stance, then we should all take heart and be strong and valiant. Grämlins saw something of value in Vanguard, so it's not just me that notices their positive virtues.

(Edit for clarity.)

Edited March 25, 2009 by zzzptm

[Schattenmann]

What's the name of this again? "This Week in Old Irrelevant News?"

Welcome to Page 5. Hurrrdurrr.

It's not about responses or age. It's the fact that she said them at all. Every person has to answer for their actions at one time or another. I would say for a she-tyrant like Reyne, today is that day.

Noooo!!! No?

please link me to FOK posts....all I saw is 2 iFOKers annoyed. No FOKers.

They speak Dutch. But that was a good try.

Article confirms that Reyne hates Mushroom Kingdom, nice to know we are doing something right.

Oh, no, man. She talked to them last night and now she's done a complete 180 just the way he's done a complete 180 on everything she's said in the last 6 months. It's like she's on a merry-go-round. Every revolution absolves her of everything she's said during the last even if she keeps acting the same way.

[Ski11585]

Now if anyone wants to actually tell me why my observation is false and do so without lying and attacking my character I'd love to hear it.

Oops. Too late.

Edited March 25, 2009 by Ski11585

[Schattenmann]

Now if anyone wants to actually tell me why my observation is false and do so without lying and attacking my character I'd love to hear it.

zzzzzzzzzzz Does not compute zzzzzzzzz

[Kroknia]

I would take that as her opinion and carry on with my day, maybe give her an earful to enlighten her on why that would be ridiculous as well. As long as no threats are involved it would just be harmless discussion, might get a bit heated, but in the end we would still be Citadel. Sometimes we take extreme positions at some points as we are speaking openly to each other and discussions get heated, but what these screenshots don't show is that she is willing to change her view when reasonable arguments are brought up, also these are old screen shots that don't reflect how current discussions have been going. Some of these discussions she was screenshoted from are many pages long with opinions continuously shifting, while the screenshots might portray it as her just putting her foot down unwilling to alter her view, that just isn't how it is.

I, unlike others in this thread bashing on Reyne, have extended experience with her and she has given me reason to troll her till the day I leave the game, as does one of your government members who is in the same boat as I am. I am not trying to do that and neither is the person in FCC. I also have extensive understanding of how citadel discussions go. If I thought those screenshots mattered, my discussion here would be very different. I don't consider anything I've said to be directly related to them, or how the citadel acts internally, only to the discussion that grew from them. That being said, I don't think she owes FOK an apology in this thread. She may have given it already for all I know. I am merely stating that I think people should not be ridiculed when they feel an apology is in order when someone tries to convince you to coup and purge your alliance. I know you're Citadel. I know things are heated in the Citadel from time to time. You go back far enough on the government/senior member section of those forums and you'll see me posting. But if you felt her saying that warranted an apology and/or an explanation of why she said such an insane thing, I wouldn't blame you nor would I ridicule you for wanting it. chairmanR seemed to think people shouldn't feel that she was out of line and didn't even have the right to feel like they deserved an apology. That was what I was taking issue with.

I also know Reyne is a nice and generally reasonable person doing what she thinks is best for OG. I know she can be swayed from time to time. Please don't take me to be going after her anymore than my disagreement with her management methods go. If I thought she was maliciously trying to do harm to the only alliance I have thought of as home over my ~800 days in the game and purposely losing its credibility for her own fun, I'd be much more enthusiastic with my critiques.

[RandomInterrupt]

That's asking a lot, Random

Just wanted to make it clear why I will be ignoring any replies like "that isn't what happened and you know it" and the Slayer Special "That means a lot coming from someone like you".